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Thread: The Audiophile Thread

  1. #401
    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Radio Shack scratched themselves off.

  2. #402
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    Quote Originally Posted by Staun View Post
    Noted. Guess this means I'll have to scratch off Radio Shack too. Damn.
    Hey, you might not have Radio Shack to kick around much longer. They went into bankruptcy recently.
    Think of a book as a vase, and a movie as the stained-glass window that the filmmaker has made out of the pieces after hes smashed it with a hammer.
    -- Russell Banks (paraphrased)

  3. #403
    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    See #401

  4. #404
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post
    See #401
    I'm old and slow. You young bucks really know how to whiz around on this Internet.
    Think of a book as a vase, and a movie as the stained-glass window that the filmmaker has made out of the pieces after hes smashed it with a hammer.
    -- Russell Banks (paraphrased)

  5. #405
    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Get up on it grandpa.

  6. #406
    Member Jerjo's Avatar
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    This thread has the potential to cost one far more than than a couple hundred CD recommendations.
    I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down.'- Bob Newhart

  7. #407
    Member Staun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rottersclub View Post
    I bought the thinnest they make - 2mm. It's very close to the thickness of the felt. If anything, it's a titch thicker, which would adversely affect the HF. That's why it was sitting on the shelf until last night. Once I got the TT leveled, I thought I would try the mat again. And yes, I did compare them - side 1 was with the felt and side 2 was with the silicon mat.
    Would a record clap have helped?
    The older I get, the better I was.

  8. #408
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    Hold on a second. Lets look at the geometry of a tonearm. The pivot point is all the way at the back end of the tonearm. So adjusting the height of the back end of the tonearm can make a relatively large difference in the Stylus Rake Angle (SRA) or the angle of the diamond in the groove at the front of the tonearm. Maybe as much as 5 degrees overall for a typical range of adjustment, and potentially more.

    Conversely, the thickness of a record will make very little difference in the SRA because it is affecting things all the way at the front of the tonearm. Maybe as little as 1/2 of a degree overall.

    So adding a mat may make a difference in a very sensitive moving magnet cartridge with a fine line or Shibata stylus, where adjustments need to be fairly precise. It will make no audible difference in your typical moving magnet cartridge.
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  9. #409
    Member rottersclub's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Staun View Post
    Would a record clap have helped?
    Help what? I'm a bit suspect about clamps - added weight, etc. Mind you, I've never actually researched them, but I don't think they are appropriate for Rega tables. I could be wrong about that.
    Think of a book as a vase, and a movie as the stained-glass window that the filmmaker has made out of the pieces after hes smashed it with a hammer.
    -- Russell Banks (paraphrased)

  10. #410
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    Quote Originally Posted by rottersclub View Post
    Help what? I'm a bit suspect about clamps - added weight, etc. Mind you, I've never actually researched them, but I don't think they are appropriate for Rega tables. I could be wrong about that.
    I thought you were looking for a method to hold the vinyl in place, stop it from moving on the platter as it rotates. And your right, maybe Rega doesn't use clamps. Sorry, my fault.
    The older I get, the better I was.

  11. #411
    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobM View Post
    Hold on a second. Lets look at the geometry of a tonearm. The pivot point is all the way at the back end of the tonearm. So adjusting the height of the back end of the tonearm can make a relatively large difference in the Stylus Rake Angle (SRA) or the angle of the diamond in the groove at the front of the tonearm. Maybe as much as 5 degrees overall for a typical range of adjustment, and potentially more.

    Conversely, the thickness of a record will make very little difference in the SRA because it is affecting things all the way at the front of the tonearm. Maybe as little as 1/2 of a degree overall.

    So adding a mat may make a difference in a very sensitive moving magnet cartridge with a fine line or Shibata stylus, where adjustments need to be fairly precise. It will make no audible difference in your typical moving magnet cartridge.
    Your logic is backwards. Raising the cartridge end of the tonearm will have much greater effect than adjusting the pivot end.

  12. #412
    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post
    Your logic is backwards. Raising the cartridge end of the tonearm will have much greater effect than adjusting the pivot end.


    On a 9" arm (the standard stock tonearm length), you would have to change the back of the arm 4mm to change stylus rake angle by 1 degree.
    And if there were a god, I think it very unlikely that he would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence - Russell

  13. #413
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post
    Your logic is backwards. Raising the cartridge end of the tonearm will have much greater effect than adjusting the pivot end.
    Just read what vinyl guru Michael Fremer says about this.

    "I said "why don't you ask him how he set SRA", which he did. The response was that it really didn't matter because as soon as you switch from a 120gram to a 180gram record it's completely changed the SRA. That is completely wrong of course. You would have to change the back of the arm 4mm to change SRA by 1 degree. At the front of the arm, raising or lowering it the difference between the thickness of a 120g and 180g record would change SRA by well less than a degree and I submit that no one can hear that small a difference, especially if your starting point is an unknown SRA!"

    BTW - 4mm = .157 inch

    Now a record mat is likely 1/8" thick or so, and it could make a difference in the height of the record off the platter, but more importantly it changes how the record mates with the platter, and dampens vibrations. Also, it makes little to no difference at all unless you are using a cartridge with a fine line stylus. That is usually found on MC catrridges, and more expensive ones at that. If you have a MM cartridge this is all moot.
    Last edited by BobM; 02-27-2015 at 09:19 AM.
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  14. #414
    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Well I don't know who this Michael Fremer dude is, but I'm not impressed with his grasp of logic and basic geometry.

    But then, you did say he's a vinyl guru.

  15. #415
    cunning linguist 3LockBox's Avatar
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    RadioShack got out of the stereo business several years ago anyway, save for a few nick-nacky things. They used to carry a few good drivers and for a few short years some decent low end gear. But like many a big box stores they started staffing their stores with people who were willing to work for minimum wage rather than keep people around with any knowledge.

    RatShack had a bum rap for decades and deservedly so but it usually had some gems amongst the rubbish. What always hurt that franchise was their best attribute - diversity; not specialized enough to be the definitive source for high quality in anything, but they'd always do in a pinch because they usually had everything. They were the 7-11 of electronics. The last few years they were reduced to selling cellphones and middling RC toys.

  16. #416
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    Just a note to BobM and Pr33t regarding a recent cart replacement. I replaced my Sumiko Blue Point 2 with a Dynavector 10x5 cart. Three weeks is still to short a time for breakin but a couple of thoughts. The Sumiko is a nice cart but there are a couple of things I wished it had done better. Channel separation and sound stage could have been improved. I noticed this while listening to ELP's Knife Edge. During the sweep near the end of the track, the sweep seemed to stall or pile up in certain places. Not a smooth left to right, right to left movement. The Dynavector took care of this as the sweep is now clean and free moving. On older pressings, the Sumiko seemed to flatten out the tracks whereas on newer pressings, it performed nicely. Some of the older pressings I used were, Bowies' Diamond Dogs and The Allman Brothers, Filmore East recordings. Older and newer pressings on the Dynavector sound great with alittle beef behind it. Great sound stage and no instrument is lost in the back of the mix. Again, three weeks is not enough time to make major statements about a cart but these are things I've noticed right away. The Sumiko is a nice cart, make no mistake. But at this point, the Dynavector is producing some great sound. The TT used is a Pro-Ject Classic Xperience 2, Olive.
    The older I get, the better I was.

  17. #417
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    staun - glad you are enjoying it. Dynavectors are some of the best cartridges around these days. One suggestion, now that it is mostly broken in, go back and recheck all of your setup parameters again.

    The suspension has loosened up and it likely needs readjustment (or at least double checking) for VTA and tracking force, maybe anti skate and azimuth.

    Enjoy,
    Bob
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  18. #418
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    Congrats Staun. I am running a Dynavector 20X2H along with the P-75 phono stage and it is giving me by far, the best sound I have ever had from my vinyl. I don't know about the 10X5, but the 20X2H does a great job minimizing surface noise, clicks, etc. that the Ortofon 2M Blue didn't.
    Think of a book as a vase, and a movie as the stained-glass window that the filmmaker has made out of the pieces after hes smashed it with a hammer.
    -- Russell Banks (paraphrased)

  19. #419
    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    I don't get any surface noise or clicks at all, on my CDs.

  20. #420
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobM View Post
    staun - glad you are enjoying it. Dynavectors are some of the best cartridges around these days. One suggestion, now that it is mostly broken in, go back and recheck all of your setup parameters again.

    The suspension has loosened up and it likely needs readjustment (or at least double checking) for VTA and tracking force, maybe anti skate and azimuth.

    Enjoy,
    Bob
    Wouldn't dare trying to install the cart myself. My trusty sidekick TT guy did a total install and setup for me. He has knowledge of my TT and is a fan of Dynavector carts.
    The older I get, the better I was.

  21. #421
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post
    I don't get any surface noise or clicks at all, on my CDs.
    You know, I have this vision of Mr. RCarlberg, trapped inside the worlds biggest used vinyl record store. The only way he can get out, is by cleaning every single album, 45, and 78 ever made. And he has to clean them, by hand. Hmmm
    The older I get, the better I was.

  22. #422
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    Quote Originally Posted by rottersclub View Post
    Congrats Staun. I am running a Dynavector 20X2H along with the P-75 phono stage and it is giving me by far, the best sound I have ever had from my vinyl. I don't know about the 10X5, but the 20X2H does a great job minimizing surface noise, clicks, etc. that the Ortofon 2M Blue didn't.
    Stan, I was already impressed with how quiet the Sumiko was. This is bliss.
    The older I get, the better I was.

  23. #423
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    Quote Originally Posted by rottersclub View Post
    Congrats Staun. I am running a Dynavector 20X2H along with the P-75 phono stage and it is giving me by far, the best sound I have ever had from my vinyl. I don't know about the 10X5, but the 20X2H does a great job minimizing surface noise, clicks, etc. that the Ortofon 2M Blue didn't.
    Tell me more about your phono stage. If I can obtain even more performance, I would certainly like to know more.
    The older I get, the better I was.

  24. #424
    Member Jerjo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobM View Post
    Staun, If you want to make some new audiophile friends who will be happy to help you spend your money on this hobby, visit any of the following forums and lurk/participate in the activity there.

    www.audiocircle.com
    www.audionervosa.com
    www.audiogon.com
    www.audioasylum.com

    Now, for the real big bucks audiophiles, try these:

    www.audioshark.org
    www.whatsbestforum.com
    Clicking on those links might prove hazardous to my health. My wife has a new cast iron skillet and she's not afraid to use it. "You want to spend how much on an amplifier?"
    I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down.'- Bob Newhart

  25. #425
    Member rottersclub's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Staun View Post
    Tell me more about your phono stage. If I can obtain even more performance, I would certainly like to know more.
    Staun, I can't remember what you are currently using. In the past, I've always used the phono stage in my amps. When I decided to get back into vinyl, I put some money into my equipment. I had my 30 year old TT tuned up, I replaced the tonearm and started with an Ortofon 2M Blue. I hated it from the day I got it. It was on the advice of the dealer with whom I had a lot of success in the past. (Can't win 'em all.) Luckily, he left town to open a store in Toronto so when I went back to replace it, I dealt with someone else who was a real vinyl nut. I demoed a few carts including the 10X5 which I liked. He said that for a little more $, I could get the 20X2H and the results would be really significant. I went for it but with the phono stage in my old Arcam integrated amp, it just didn't have the presence the 10X5 had in the store. So I shopped around a bit and found a guy in Toronto that was selling a P-75 MK 2 just after the MK 3 had been released. So what extra I spent on the cartridge, I saved by buying the previous version of the phono amp. My high output moving coil cartridge has the same specs as a moving magnet, so the jumper settings are the same for both. There is another setting for low output MC and a third setting is specific to Dynavector's low output MC. (Sorry, can't remember the marketing name for it.)

    What I am getting is much more detail and better imaging and presence. With the Arcam, the sound was veiled and recessed (some people say it's akin to sitting at the back of the hall). With the P-75, everything is clearer and I seem to be sitting at the front of the hall now. It's not over the top by any means as Dynavector has a relatively tame presentation compared to many others. For me, it's just right. It's not a miracle worker though. I was listening to Tull's Heavy Horses and that recording is just so flat and lifeless, nothing could bring it to life. On the other side of the coin, I have Joe Jackson's Blaze of Glory which is all digital and the shrillness makes it practically unlistenable. But when it's a good recording, it's bliss. Last night it was Ralph Towner's Solo Concert and the detail and image I was getting was just fantastic.

    Now, the P-75 MK 3 is probably in the $800 range. Used is probably half that. If you want to go lower, you can check Audiogon for used phono amps. Names like Rega, Cambridge and Pro-ject run between $100 - $250.
    Last edited by rottersclub; 03-03-2015 at 07:18 PM.
    Think of a book as a vase, and a movie as the stained-glass window that the filmmaker has made out of the pieces after hes smashed it with a hammer.
    -- Russell Banks (paraphrased)

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