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Thread: The Audiophile Thread

  1. #2926
    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    The Count Basie track, again Jones has chosen a remaster that tubbifies the bass. I wonder if we're seeing a trend with a reason here? That said, the muted trumpet is nice and bitey, almost too much so.

    Original:


    Remaster:

  2. #2927
    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Track three is not remixed (it's from 2005) but it's still mixed to hip-hop standards, with the 40Hz slider at +12:

  3. #2928
    cunning linguist 3LockBox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post
    Sounds very, very good Firth -- bearing in mind it's a YouTube video playing over my headphones.
    Yep. If it sounds good it's because you have good headphones.

    Why do audiophiles all play the same kinds of recordings? I think I know why anyway but I'd be more interested in hearing how my music sounds on a system and not the same same old coffee house jazz. Every time I've seen one of these sound demos (on line or brick and mortar) they play this same style of music and I'm standing there thinking "I'd never play this at home".

  4. #2929
    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Okay, my initial impressions hold for all of the examples he plays: he's chosen material which is enhanced by "the loudness setting" which is what old receivers used to have: enhanced bass below 60Hz, and enhanced highs above 6kHz.

    I'd love to hear the speakers on some crackerjack recordings. They sound like they might be awesome.

  5. #2930
    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3LockBox View Post
    Why do audiophiles all play the same kinds of recordings? I think I know why anyway but I'd be more interested in hearing how my music sounds on a system and not the same same old coffee house jazz. Every time I've seen one of these sound demos (on line or brick and mortar) they play this same style of music and I'm standing there thinking "I'd never play this at home".
    People choose different recordings for different purposes. One recording that everybody played a couple years ago to demonstrate speakers was Patricia Barber. She had a tubby tubby bass and barely whispered into a mic that was halfway to her epiglottis. It was a stank-ass recording but it made speakers sound dynamic.

    The rule-of-thumb is, if your stereo sounds good on one of these stanky recordings, it'll sound the best it can sound on Yes or Genesis or the Boston Symphony. It's a theory. Not necessarily true.

    It takes a lot of different material to evaluate a pair of speakers -- a VARIETY, unlike Mr. Jones -- as every recording brings out different strengths and weaknesses. I have about a dozen I use... and none of them as heavily processed as Jones'.

  6. #2931
    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    I wish I could hear the speakers on some material with real bass (viz. below 40Hz). Jones uses this track as his "bass demo," apparently not realizing that +12 on 40Hz is not real bass, it hip-hop tubby upper bass.


    But then, with 10" woofers in "a shoebox room" that might be the best he could do.

  7. #2932
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    I like the sound from this demo as heard over my Polk LS series speakers. I’d like to know more about the overall setup. These are not speakers one would put on a bookshelf because of the ports and low frequency extension. Even if the -3dB low point is 40Hz, the perception of deeper bass is enhanced if the roll off isn’t too fast. Some of the treble sounded like nails on a chalkboard for me, but if the mic is from a Galaxy phone like the author said, well no wonder. That could also be cause for the tubbiness of the bass. This was a smaller room which also helps the tubby. This comment about YT is right on. I listened to some six foot tall Maggie’s from a laptop playing audiophile YTs to a very high end DAC plus high end amplification. Blew me away. YouTube is limited to about 384KHz sampling at 16 bits, I believe, but everything else is top knotch, it can support a great demo. I’m sure it would have been even better with higher res sources. This comment stands out:
    “I’m not giving in an inch to fear” David Crosby

  8. #2933
    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firth View Post
    Even if the -3dB low point is 40Hz, the perception of deeper bass is enhanced if the roll off isn’t too fast.
    Yes. For a ten-inch these speakers have impressive low-end, even taking into account the poor choices of demo material. Like I said, I'd like to hear them on some REAL bass. I'd bet they're damn good!

    Quote Originally Posted by Firth View Post
    Some of the treble sounded like nails on a chalkboard for me, but if the mic is from a Galaxy phone like the author said, well no wonder. That could also be cause for the tubbiness of the bass.
    Exactly why I wanted to compare them to the originals (or at least, YT versions of the originals): to remove all the miking questions.

  9. #2934
    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firth View Post
    Even if the -3dB low point is 40Hz, the perception of deeper bass is enhanced if the roll off isn’t too fast.
    Yes. For a ten-inch these speakers have impressive low-end, even taking into account the poor choices of demo material. Like I said, I'd like to hear them on some REAL bass. (It's more likely -6dB or -12dB at 40Hz, but I take your point.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Firth View Post
    Some of the treble sounded like nails on a chalkboard for me, but if the mic is from a Galaxy phone like the author said, well no wonder. That could also be cause for the tubbiness of the bass.
    Exactly why I wanted to compare them to the originals (or at least, YT versions of the originals): to remove all the miking questions.

    And, you can definitely get a sense for the phase accuracy of these speakers on YT. It's not the same as "being there" but you can hear they have impressive imaging.

  10. #2935
    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Crap, I duplicated rather than editing, and now it won't let me delete the duplicate. Mia culpa!

  11. #2936
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    This track is not musical -- it's a slowed down multi-track master I think? -- and a person would never play it for enjoyment.

    But it has CONSIDERABLE sub-sonic energy (well below 20Hz) that rearranges the pictures on my walls when I play it.

  12. #2937
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post
    This track is not musical -- it's a slowed down multi-track master I think? -- and a person would never play it for enjoyment.

    But it has CONSIDERABLE sub-sonic energy (well below 20Hz) that rearranges the pictures on my walls when I play it.
    As one of the commentators said, high pass em and get a powered sub. That’s what I have except the subwoofers are flat and my towers, with microphone calibration that matches the roll offs. It actually quite the achievement in the point source 10’s to have the bass they have, but that makes it easier to blend with a subwoofer.
    “I’m not giving in an inch to fear” David Crosby

  13. #2938
    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Yep. It's a small percentage of commercial recordings that even contain sub-50Hz content (due to the long-standing practices derived from LP pressing limitations), but if you want it, you almost have to go with a powered sub.

  14. #2939
    cunning linguist 3LockBox's Avatar
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    Everyone hears differently. I loved my Polk Audio SDA CRS speakers, but I knew a couple of guys that thought they sounded weak, because they didn't have the mid-bass slam of a Klipsch or Cerwin Vega. Another friend of mine thought they were too midrangey (he owned Boston Acoustic A100s).

    Thing is I love hear a big badass speaker like Klipsch Legacy series but find their tower series to be strident and fatiguing. In fact, I think a lot of speaker companies tower designs are strident sounding but they designed for multichannel use and I'm just a stereo guy.

  15. #2940
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3LockBox View Post
    Everyone hears differently. I loved my Polk Audio SDA CRS speakers, but I knew a couple of guys that thought they sounded weak, because they didn't have the mid-bass slam of a Klipsch or Cerwin Vega. Another friend of mine thought they were too midrangey (he owned Boston Acoustic A100s).

    Thing is I love hear a big badass speaker like Klipsch Legacy series but find their tower series to be strident and fatiguing. In fact, I think a lot of speaker companies tower designs are strident sounding but they designed for multichannel use and I'm just a stereo guy.
    Have you heard the new Polk Legend L800 SDA speakers? Said to be a wider bandwidth design of that concept.
    Last edited by Firth; 11-14-2022 at 06:29 PM.
    “I’m not giving in an inch to fear” David Crosby

  16. #2941
    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Speakers that sound "impressive" on first listen can often turn into "fatiguing" after a while. It's a delicate balance, and no two-minute preview is definitive.

  17. #2942
    cunning linguist 3LockBox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firth View Post
    Have you the new Polk Legend L800 SDA speakers? Said to be a wider bandwidth design of that concept.
    I haven't. I can see it has two 10" woofers. One of the things I liked about Polk back when was their use of passive radiators. Don't know why but I love designs that use PRs. I know many who don't like them though.

  18. #2943
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3LockBox View Post
    I haven't. I can see it has two 10" woofers. One of the things I liked about Polk back when was their use of passive radiators. Don't know why but I love designs that use PRs. I know many who don't like them though.
    I had Polk Model 10’s in the early 80’s which had a passive subwoofer. Then I went to Snell Model E, and then to my current system which is Polk LSi 5 speakers with the LSi 25. Polk's packed a 150-watt RMS amplifier into each LSi25 tower; each amp drives a 10" Dynamic Balance® woofer, to provide ultra-responsive bass with precision and punch. Power Port venting. The powered subwoofer drive to the outer sides of the towers, orthogonal to the main front drivers. The power range in frequency is 20-300 Hz. The overall speaker response is 30Hz-26KHz. I drive the subwoofers with RCA low level inputs from separate preamp channels.

    The content which drives low frequency include Moog Taurus pedals (low corner freq. of 20Hz) in music by Genesis and other prog bands. A very exciting low end piece is on the Yes Fragile DVD Audio, Cans and Brahms which has very deep organ sound. Wakeman's effect and influence is felt in his singular Cans and Brahms, daringly subtitled Extracts from Brahms' 4th Symphony in E Minor Third Movement. It also shows that the band possesses serious musical chops. It only clocks in at a mere 1:35, but resonates long after the last piano fill.
    “I’m not giving in an inch to fear” David Crosby

  19. #2944
    cunning linguist 3LockBox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firth View Post
    A very exciting low end piece is on the Yes Fragile DVD Audio, Cans and Brahms which has very deep organ sound. Wakeman's effect and influence is felt in his singular Cans and Brahms, daringly subtitled Extracts from Brahms' 4th Symphony in E Minor Third Movement. It also shows that the band possesses serious musical chops. It only clocks in at a mere 1:35, but resonates long after the last piano fill.
    What about Yes' Amazing Grace, a bonus track on the G4T1 reissue?

  20. #2945
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3LockBox View Post
    What about Yes' Amazing Grace, a bonus track on the G4T1 reissue?
    Thanks, I’ll check it out.
    “I’m not giving in an inch to fear” David Crosby

  21. #2946
    cunning linguist 3LockBox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firth View Post
    Thanks, I’ll check it out.
    It's basically a duet with Squire on bass and Wakeman on foot pedals of what I can't remember. I don't think it was the the cathedral church organ, maybe Taurus pedals? 🤔

  22. #2947
    Member Zeuhlmate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3LockBox View Post
    Yep. If it sounds good it's because you have good headphones.

    Why do audiophiles all play the same kinds of recordings? I think I know why anyway but I'd be more interested in hearing how my music sounds on a system and not the same same old coffee house jazz. Every time I've seen one of these sound demos (on line or brick and mortar) they play this same style of music and I'm standing there thinking "I'd never play this at home".
    Exactly.
    or Diana Krall, Dire Straits - brothers in arms, etc.

  23. #2948
    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeuhlmate View Post
    Exactly.
    or Diana Krall, Dire Straits - brothers in arms, etc.
    So... what DO y'all recommend to wow your visitors?

  24. #2949
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post
    So... what DO y'all recommend to wow your visitors?
    “I’m not giving in an inch to fear” David Crosby

  25. #2950
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    I was in an audiophile store this summer. The owner (an old friend) queued up a recent Los Lobos recording to demo one of his better systems. Sounded astonishing.
    I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down.'- Bob Newhart

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