Thread: The Audiophile Thread

  1. #226
    Member BobM's Avatar
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    I've got an extra pair of these for sale. They are only $12,200 (each, since they weigh @ 10oz a piece) and come with a certified 14K gold stamp. So you are only paying for the weight of gold, but are benefiting from the additional sound quality listening pleasure they will bring you.

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  2. #227
    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Free shipping?

  3. #228
    Outraged bystander markwoll's Avatar
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    Sometimes it is hard ( or not worth the effort ) to tell if these are Onion-esque articles or 'real'
    I suspect that Real is the answer, anything else are 'Fightin' words'.

    http://www.enjoythemusic.com/hificri...networking.htm

    ( I did poke through the thread and didn't see the link, sorry if it is a duplicate )
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
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  4. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by BobM View Post
    And there is absolutely nothing contradictory with what you said to being an audiophile. You are happy with your purchases. You are loving the sound you are getting. You are enjoying music. That's perfect and wonderful.
    Just to be clear: I meant no offense by my comment....more a joke. When I told a good friend - who has always had far better sound systems than I and who has, at least it seemed, always been on the lookouts for something better - about my recent upgrade (the only time...and probably the last!...that I'll be able to afford such high end gear) that I guess this must mean I'm an audiophile, he said "no; audiophiles are always looking for something better; you're eally satisfied with what you've purchases and intend them to last (barring, perhaps, the Oppo) the rest of your life."

    It was. a joke. If folks have the disposable income to constantly look for ways to improve their systems, far be it from me - who shudders to think how much he has spent on music (vinyl, cassettes, CDs) and film (tape, DVDs, Bly ray) and, when I was a professional player, on guitars, amps, effects processors, etc - to criticize. Heck, if you've got the money and it's legal, more power to you however you spend your money.

    I'm just saying that my new rig is delivering sound beyond my wildest dreams...that I simply never thought I'd be lucky enough to have it this good and that I don't see myself looking to improve upon it as I don't see it as being possible. I do think that once you reach a certain level, it begins turning into a case of diminishing returns. But, again, if folks have the money and it makes 'em happy, well then, why the heck not?

    Cheers!
    John

  5. #230
    Member BobM's Avatar
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    Hey John. Just because you aren't rolling equipment a few times a year doesn't mean you aren't an audiophile. If you like good sound and are willing to pursue it, then you are there. If you are satisfied with your current rig, that is just cream on the cookie. You are seriously lucky to not be pursuing that elusive golden goose.

    Personally, I am in the same boat. I'm particularly happy with what I currently have and am enjoying music without any need to change anything, though I did chase things for quite a few years.

    Those people who can't settle on anything have a problem, or a curse or a true issue floating over their heads - or maybe that's what they are in it for. It's all good. But that is true of almost any hobby I can think of. There are those in it to learn, those to gloat, those to spend, those to hoard, those to purely enjoy, those to socialize, etc. The unfortunate part of human nature is that many people only see things through their own eyes and can't accept that it is all OK and labels are generally segregationist and often misleading.

    Enjoy the music,
    Bob
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  6. #231
    As long as we're all comparing stereo system dicks, I use a Sony digital audio/visual system with surround-sound JBL speakers and a rather large bass woofer which has its own power source and volume control. My second bank of speakers are Bose reflecting speakers. Then I run my computer through the stereo receiver. I have a terabyte external drive with a couple of thousand or more CDs and MP3s ripped onto it. I have everything from 19th century cylinder recordings redone in digital format, I have non-electric disc recordings, early jazz, 20s pop, all the way up to the most modern recordings. I have 40s swing, 50s rock and roll, 60s rock and even bubblegum stuff (that's what I listened to as a kid). I mean, you name it, I have it--jazz, blues, ragtime, gospel, bluegrass, classical, fusion, soul, R&B (old school only), avant-garde, EDM, ambient, trance, noise--Japanese, Chinese, Indonesian, Persian, Arabic, East Indian, American Indian, African, voodoo--you name it. I have entire catalogs of various artists like the Beatles, the Who, King Crimson, Mahavishnu Orchestra, Sinatra, Pink Floyd. I got them from people who already ripped them and I just copied their rips and dropped them onto my external drive. I didn't pay a cent for most of them.

    A lady at work loved my huge collection of swing--old and new stuff--and she offered me a copy of her catalog of every Sinatra album as a trade so I figured sure, why not? One lady I used to work with had excellent taste in music and she loved my collection of blues--everything from old country blues to the most modern stuff and she wanted it so I copied it for her and she gave me a huge cache of jazz, blues, classical and electronic I had never even heard of before and it was great stuff! I have so much stuff that if you're looking for a certain song or composition, drop me a line and I'll see if I have it and I can send you the file.

    So I play this stuff from my computer through my stereo system and it's hog-heaven!

  7. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by BobM View Post
    Hey John. Just because you aren't rolling equipment a few times a year doesn't mean you aren't an audiophile. If you like good sound and are willing to pursue it, then you are there. If you are satisfied with your current rig, that is just cream on the cookie. You are seriously lucky to not be pursuing that elusive golden goose.

    Personally, I am in the same boat. I'm particularly happy with what I currently have and am enjoying music without any need to change anything, though I did chase things for quite a few years.

    Those people who can't settle on anything have a problem, or a curse or a true issue floating over their heads - or maybe that's what they are in it for. It's all good. But that is true of almost any hobby I can think of. There are those in it to learn, those to gloat, those to spend, those to hoard, those to purely enjoy, those to socialize, etc. The unfortunate part of human nature is that many people only see things through their own eyes and can't accept that it is all OK and labels are generally segregationist and often misleading.

    Enjoy the music,
    Bob
    Thanks. Truthfully, I don't think any differently of folks who are looking for that elusive "perfect" sound system than I do musicians who are always looking for that elusive "something."

    I guess the diff is it is possible to find that sound system that delivers what you're looking for and be ok; for me, the day a musician finds that "thing" is the day they should pack it in. Why? Because, in my view, part of being an evolving musician is searching for ways to articulate the sounds you hear in your head. Hopefully, with years of work and maturity, you get closer to it....but if you actually find it? Well, there's nothing left to search for and, consequently, nothing left to do, musically. At least that's how I see it. So there's some correlation between musicians and audiophiles, but it's not precise and it falls flat at a certain point.

    Not to derail, but am curious to hear how others feel.

  8. #233
    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobM View Post
    Just because you aren't rolling equipment a few times a year doesn't mean you aren't an audiophile.
    On the contrary, people who are constantly trading out equipment aren't "audio"philes, they're "equipment"philes, or spec-junkies. Audio doesn't enter into it, most of the time.

  9. #234
    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speare-shaker View Post
    My second bank of speakers are Bose reflecting speakers.

    I got [my music] from people who already ripped them and I just copied their rips and dropped them onto my external drive. I didn't pay a cent for most of them.
    I'm not saying these two statements go together, but you be the judge.

  10. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post
    On the contrary, people who are constantly trading out equipment aren't "audio"philes, they're "equipment"philes, or spec-junkies. Audio doesn't enter into it, most of the time.
    These generalities mean nothing. As if there really are people that can be categorized. I will say that there is this anti-technology attitude when people are confronted with that they don't understand. Technology isn't just data storage. but the application of technology to perfect the listening experience, and this technology doesn't just fall into the lap of those who listen to salesman and media.
    On the verge of indecision
    I'll always take the roundabout way

  11. #236
    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firth View Post
    These generalities mean nothing. As if there really are people that can be categorized.
    I can categorize you.

  12. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post
    I can categorize you.
    I categorize you as a categorizer.
    On the verge of indecision
    I'll always take the roundabout way

  13. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firth View Post
    I categorize you as a categorizer.
    Funny. I think of him as something quite different.
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  14. #239
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  15. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by Speare-shaker View Post
    I have entire catalogs of various artists like the Beatles, the Who, King Crimson, Mahavishnu Orchestra, Sinatra, Pink Floyd. I got them from people who already ripped them and I just copied their rips and dropped them onto my external drive. I didn't pay a cent for most of them.
    That is not something that I would advocate with such misplaced pride.

    Quote Originally Posted by Speare-shaker View Post
    A lady at work loved my huge collection of swing--old and new stuff--and she offered me a copy of her catalog of every Sinatra album as a trade so I figured sure, why not? One lady I used to work with had excellent taste in music and she loved my collection of blues--everything from old country blues to the most modern stuff and she wanted it so I copied it for her and she gave me a huge cache of jazz, blues, classical and electronic I had never even heard of before and it was great stuff! I have so much stuff that if you're looking for a certain song or composition, drop me a line and I'll see if I have it and I can send you the file.
    You, sir, and your "friends" are part of the reason why the music industry is in such a sorry state. Note I didn't say THE reason, as it's more complex. But people like you who think that trading music is like trading bubble gum cards are absolutely part of the problem....and I'd sure not be so vocal about it...or so effing proud.

    I can say that I have a massive collection of music that crosses almost every genre...and I paid for every single bit of it, other than promotional music provided by me from the artists and labels for review consideration. That is part of doing business. But everything I've wanted that I did not get from artists and labels I paid for, because music has a value, and I want to put money in the pockets of the people who made it (heck, I just bought three Enid CDs after reading they were having legal problems).

    But trading entire collections as you and your friends do?

    Sheesh.

  16. #241
    cunning linguist 3LockBox's Avatar
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    I love the notion that while I should be put off by the phenomenon of jitter in digital reproduction, I should be enamored by the nuances of analog mediums, such as static buildup, surface noise from friction, the heat generated from higher current requirements and lower dynamic range.

  17. #242
    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    But... But... Digital CANT be any good. It's just a bunch of snapshots of a real sound wave, not the sound wave itself.

  18. #243
    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post
    But... But... Digital CANT be any good. It's just a bunch of snapshots of a real sound wave, not the sound wave itself.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyquist...mpling_theorem

    Intuitively we expect that when one reduces a continuous function to a discrete sequence (called samples) and interpolates back to a continuous function, the fidelity of the result depends on the density (or sample-rate) of the original samples. The sampling theorem introduces the concept of a sample-rate that is sufficient for perfect fidelity for the class of bandlimited functions; no actual "information" is lost during the sampling process. It expresses the sample-rate in terms of the function's bandwidth.
    "The world will soon be right again,
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  19. #244
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    Shannon is theory, reality is way more complex.
    On the verge of indecision
    I'll always take the roundabout way

  20. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by Staun View Post
    Was having a new phono cart installed this weekend and the subject came up saying that there are reasonable priced stereo componants out there, just badly mismatched. Most people can't afford the process of changing one for another so, you just have to live with what you have. Has to be a better way?
    I had to chime in on this, having so far lurked while coming late to the thread.

    The notion of component matching is art not science (watch the Athens Audiophile Club feature and note the guy who has gone through 48 or 49 amps!). That's why finding a bricks and mortar shop that has good products and people who know how to match them up intelligently is the way to go for many people. The bottom line is that you can't do that if you buy used products or ones that are sold directly from the manufacturer (e.g., Oppo and Tetra). Sorry John, but that's the "flaw" in Adrian's business model. You invited Robert to come to Ottawa to hear Tetras. That may be the only way he might ever hear them. And at those price points, buying them on spec is a very risky business. Buying electronics unheard is one thing, but buying speakers unheard is a fools errand, IMO.

    I can honestly say that I heard almost everything in my current rig before buying it with exception of my phono stage - either at the shop or in my home. That includes my pre-amp which was brought over by a very kind fellow, so I could hear it before buying one used from someone else.

    The local shop with whom I deal has been very good to me, especially with my analog gear. They even let me demo my previous speakers in my home. Not all stores do that, and I won't deal with them for that reason.

    I bought my speakers and power amp from a store that is a a four hour drive, but I spent between 1.5 and 2 hours listening and comparing with another speaker that was on my list. The amp was a given going in. The speakers I bought, while way above my original budget, were so much better sounding than the ones I had planned to buy that I knew I would always regret it otherwise.

    (I will post my list of music that I use to demo audio equipment in another post.)

    And one minor clarification: John attributed something to me that wasn't quite what I said, but I think it bears being said:

    A true audiophile is never satisfied with their system and they are constantly buying and selling equipment to find the perfect sound. Neither you or I fit that description, so we'll have to find another term. How about "audio enthusiast"?
    Think of a book as a vase, and a movie as the stained-glass window that the filmmaker has made out of the pieces after he’s smashed it with a hammer.
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  21. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Griffin View Post
    Perfect analogy, and based on that my Infinti would be mid-fi, just like my home theaters

    The thing for me is hasn't everyone noticed how their eyesight has changed from our 30's to our 40's to our 50's?

    Are you assuming your hearing hasn't experienced something similar?

    : )

    BG
    I had my hearing checked when I was in my early 50s because I was having trouble understanding my niece. It turns out that my hearing was that of 13 year old (which I was thrilled to learn) and my niece was a mumbler.
    Think of a book as a vase, and a movie as the stained-glass window that the filmmaker has made out of the pieces after he’s smashed it with a hammer.
    -- Russell Banks (paraphrased)

  22. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by rottersclub View Post
    I had to chime in on this, having so far lurked while coming late to the thread.

    The notion of component matching is art not science (watch the Athens Audiophile Club feature and note the guy who has gone through 48 or 49 amps!). That's why finding a bricks and mortar shop that has good products and people who know how to match them up intelligently is the way to go for many people. The bottom line is that you can't do that if you buy used products or ones that are sold directly from the manufacturer (e.g., Oppo and Tetra). Sorry John, but that's the "flaw" in Adrian's business model. You invited Robert to come to Ottawa to hear Tetras. That may be the only way he might ever hear them. And at those price points, buying them on spec is a very risky business. Buying electronics unheard is one thing, but buying speakers unheard is a fools errand, IMO.

    I can honestly say that I heard almost everything in my current rig before buying it with exception of my phono stage - either at the shop or in my home. That includes my pre-amp which was brought over by a very kind fellow, so I could hear it before buying one used from someone else.

    The local shop with whom I deal has been very good to me, especially with my analog gear. They even let me demo my previous speakers in my home. Not all stores do that, and I won't deal with them for that reason.

    I bought my speakers and power amp from a store that is a a four hour drive, but I spent between 1.5 and 2 hours listening and comparing with another speaker that was on my list. The amp was a given going in. The speakers I bought, while way above my original budget, were so much better sounding than the ones I had planned to buy that I knew I would always regret it otherwise.

    (I will post my list of music that I use to demo audio equipment in another post.)

    And one minor clarification: John attributed something to me that wasn't quite what I said, but I think it bears being said:

    A true audiophile is never satisfied with their system and they are constantly buying and selling equipment to find the perfect sound. Neither you or I fit that description, so we'll have to find another term. How about "audio enthusiast"?
    I probably sound like a broken record, but one could never exercise all the combinations and permutations of equipment to achieve the ideal sound and sound front. What helps tremendously is microphone based measurements of the system in the environment in which the speakers exist. With enough degrees of freedom, one can achieve a sound which is transparent wrt the recording. Now if you wanted to have your ears measured, and tweak the settings, you can.
    On the verge of indecision
    I'll always take the roundabout way

  23. #248
    Member rottersclub's Avatar
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    Here are the things that I usually bring along when evaluating audio equipment. Some has been my go-to music since I shopped for my first decent system in the late 70s/early 80s. My time allotment determines how much of it to bring along.

    1. Bruford / One Of A Kind - 01 - Hell's Bells
    2. David Binney / South - 01 - Out Beyond Ideas
    3. Isildurs Bane / MIND Volume 1 - 01 - The Flight Onward - Phases 1-5
    4. Steely Dan / Gaucho - 01 - Babylon Sisters
    5. Gong / Gazeuse! - 01 - Expresso
    6. Joni Mitchell / The Hissing of Summer Lawns - 04 - Don't Interrupt the Sorrow
    7. Pat Metheny Group / Imaginary Day - 09 - The Awakening
    8. Peter Erskine / You Never Know - 01 - New Old Age
    9. Porcupine Tree / Stupid Dream - 01 - Even Less
    10. Ralph Towner / Ana - 01 - The Reluctant Bride
    11. Bill Bruford's Earthworks / Footloose & Fancy Free - 01 - Footloose and Fancy Free
    12. Änglagård / Hybris - 01 - Jordrök
    13. Tomasz Stanko Quartet / Soul of Things, Variation V
    14. Genesis / Selling England By The Pound - 03 - Firth Of Fifth
    15. Dead Can Dance / Toward The Within - 01 - Rakim
    16. Peter Gabriel / So - 06 - Mercy Street
    17. Camel / A Nod And A Wink - 01 - A Nod And A Wink
    18. Porcupine Tree / In Absentia - 01 - Blackest Eyes
    19. Peter Gabriel / Us - 10 - Secret World
    20. Pink Floyd / Wish you were here - 04 - Wish You Were Here


    For the record, my first decent stereo rig lasted me almost 25 years, only changing CD players as they wore out. I started buying audio equipment in the early 2000s when my Infinity speakers fell apart. I started off fairly small and moved up the ladder as funds permitted to my current system. I still have my Rega Planar 3 TT that I bought in 1980. As noted elsewhere, I'm very happy with my current system. What I'm not happy about is the location of it. I am hoping to build a media room in my unfinished basement when funds permit. The key will be a properly designed and treated music listening area. I have no intention of building a combination audio and HT system for now.
    Think of a book as a vase, and a movie as the stained-glass window that the filmmaker has made out of the pieces after he’s smashed it with a hammer.
    -- Russell Banks (paraphrased)

  24. #249
    Member Staun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rottersclub View Post
    Here are the things that I usually bring along when evaluating audio equipment. Some has been my go-to music since I shopped for my first decent system in the late 70s/early 80s. My time allotment determines how much of it to bring along.

    1. Bruford / One Of A Kind - 01 - Hell's Bells
    2. David Binney / South - 01 - Out Beyond Ideas
    3. Isildurs Bane / MIND Volume 1 - 01 - The Flight Onward - Phases 1-5
    4. Steely Dan / Gaucho - 01 - Babylon Sisters
    5. Gong / Gazeuse! - 01 - Expresso
    6. Joni Mitchell / The Hissing of Summer Lawns - 04 - Don't Interrupt the Sorrow
    7. Pat Metheny Group / Imaginary Day - 09 - The Awakening
    8. Peter Erskine / You Never Know - 01 - New Old Age
    9. Porcupine Tree / Stupid Dream - 01 - Even Less
    10. Ralph Towner / Ana - 01 - The Reluctant Bride
    11. Bill Bruford's Earthworks / Footloose & Fancy Free - 01 - Footloose and Fancy Free
    12. Änglagård / Hybris - 01 - Jordrök
    13. Tomasz Stanko Quartet / Soul of Things, Variation V
    14. Genesis / Selling England By The Pound - 03 - Firth Of Fifth
    15. Dead Can Dance / Toward The Within - 01 - Rakim
    16. Peter Gabriel / So - 06 - Mercy Street
    17. Camel / A Nod And A Wink - 01 - A Nod And A Wink
    18. Porcupine Tree / In Absentia - 01 - Blackest Eyes
    19. Peter Gabriel / Us - 10 - Secret World
    20. Pink Floyd / Wish you were here - 04 - Wish You Were Here


    For the record, my first decent stereo rig lasted me almost 25 years, only changing CD players as they wore out. I started buying audio equipment in the early 2000s when my Infinity speakers fell apart. I started off fairly small and moved up the ladder as funds permitted to my current system. I still have my Rega Planar 3 TT that I bought in 1980. As noted elsewhere, I'm very happy with my current system. What I'm not happy about is the location of it. I am hoping to build a media room in my unfinished basement when funds permit. The key will be a properly designed and treated music listening area. I have no intention of building a combination audio and HT system for now.
    I don't have one "test album". Like you, I use different tracks from different albums. But, what are you using for the test material. Are you using hi res cd's or normal cd's? Has to be some difference when listening to different tyes of pressings and masterings.
    The older I get, the better I was.

  25. #250
    Member BobM's Avatar
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    Here's a thought for those of us who actually go over to the homes of others to hang out and listen to music once in a while, be it in an audio club setting or just a Saturday afternoon. What is your reference for evaluating that other person's system?

    I would suggest that (for most people) your own home system is your reference, because the sound of it is what you are most intimately familiar with. OK, some people will get wow'ed by a friends costly system, but no system does everything perfectly. If the friends system does everything yours does, and then some, you will likely praise it. If it falls short in that one category that makes your special, then you will likely say it needs work (maybe not out loud, but in your head).

    Then again, some of us are likely to say something like "if my foot is tapping to the music, all is good".
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