Still stunning after 37 years. The general consensus has been that Crafty Hands(1978) is superior but I would have to disagree. The energy level of tunes like Stumpy Meets Firecracker In Stencil Forest and Kneebitten Nymphs In Limbo are only 2 examples of their mind blowing musicianship. I love everything these guys do and own it all,but this album is the peak of their "degree of difficulty" performance. What say you?
This has probably my favourite HTM piece - "New York Dream's Suite" - and Mike Beck's percussion work is more varied than Ron Riddle's, but the vocal pieces are kind of weak. At least on "Crafty Hands" there was only one, and it was better imho. But overall I would tend to agree with you, although it's almost a tie, really.
Calyx (Canterbury Scene) - http://www.calyx-canterbury.fr
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I prefer Crafty Hands, but I still like the first album a whole lot.
Bill
I agree with Aymeric here: A slight edge given to Crafty Hands. I always skip the vocal tracks on s/t (and "the third..." as well), but their first two are so great I generally mix them together when I'm in the mood to listen. IMO, kinda like the Hatfields in that they've got two back-to-back amazing studio albums that are sonically so similar, I tend to blend them together in my mind (and in my playlist).
I have the separate CDs of the first two, but what are details on that combo CD of the first two. I have it but haven't laid eyes on it in ages. Is it 2CDs, or one and it omits some tracks? What's the label?
I have it. I found it in a bargain bin about 13 years ago. Haven't played it in many years. I've never been crazy about it but the musicianship is great (the vocals, not so much).
E-A-T
+1...this post echos my thoughts quite well.Originally Posted by calyx
Ya'll do realize that once they moved 'north' to seek their fame and fortune in Washington, DC, they were strictly an instrumental band until they got signed when they were told to add vocals?
As good as the first album is (and it's good), they didn't capture how great they were at doing that material, especially because they didn't capture what Mike Beck used to do as well as making them add vocals.
Happy to say I saw them many, many times before they got signed.
Steve F.
www.waysidemusic.com
www.cuneiformrecords.com
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
“Remember, if it doesn't say "Cuneiform," it's not prog!” - THE Jed Levin
Any time any one speaks to me about any musical project, the one absolute given is "it will not make big money". [tip of the hat to HK]
"Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"
please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.
Masterpiece is the key word. But I like like this and Crafty Hands equally. IMHO one of the absolute best early American prog bands. Big big fan, and enjoy the Oblivion Sun albums tremendously as well. I think Stan has a lovely voice, though he seems to take a lot of heat. The musicianship is phenomenal on all their recordings, Frank is an absolute genius on the keyboards and only wish they could tap into a fraction of music he still has in the can.
Last edited by Proghound; 01-03-2015 at 11:34 AM.
I guess you mean Retrospective, released on East Side Digital.
I far prefer the live album to either of these.
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A gentleman is defined as someone who knows how to play the accordion, and doesn't.
I can find nothing to complain about regarding any HtM albums. The s/t and CH both constitute pure bliss AFAIC.
Hired on to work for Mr. Bill Cox, a-fixin' lawn mowers and what-not, since 1964.
"Arguing with an idiot is like playing chess with a pigeon. It'll just knock over all the pieces, shit on the board, and strut about like it's won anyway." Anonymous
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+1 I never had any problem with the vocals either.
The S/T and Crafty Hands are both brilliant, and I'd have real hard time saying which one I like better.
Both are among the best American prog ever produced.
I have always wondered why the vocals where so derided. While not the best, they are certainly pretty innocuous, IMO.
And if there were a god, I think it very unlikely that he would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence - Russell
I don't think that they are derided so much as:
1. They are not as good as everything else about these albums (you seem to agree with that).
2. As I stated above, people who knew them at the time - and they were hugely popular locally - remember them as an instrumental band with no 'weaknesses'. Suddenly there were these weaknesses in this great band, and people noticed....
Steve F.
www.waysidemusic.com
www.cuneiformrecords.com
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
“Remember, if it doesn't say "Cuneiform," it's not prog!” - THE Jed Levin
Any time any one speaks to me about any musical project, the one absolute given is "it will not make big money". [tip of the hat to HK]
"Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"
please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.
To me the s/t has 20x the atmosphere of Crafty Hands. Not sure why, but Crafty Hands never caught hold of me. The first album is like a musical universe unto itself. Who cares about the vocals? Stan is no Steve Walsh, but the vocal lines are actually very fun to sing along with.
I also think Ken Scott's production is so three-dimensional on this album. It feels like a mix that you could literally walk into. It would probably make a super 5.1 mix if done by somebody with taste.
Over the years, I've heard the complaints that Mike Beck never got his due. I'm sure he was a totally different experience live. But I think all the percussion work on this album is remarkable. He takes the Carl Palmer orchestral drumming idea but imbues it with more refinement, more color, more precision and no bombast.
Great band and albums, but I agree with Steve about the vocals, which I understand how would appear like an "alien" factor to many of their close followers.
I never heard 3rd. Better late..., though.
"Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
"[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM
I think because I listened to the first album so much - it's still my favorite. I didn't get Crafty Hands till much later but I have that soft spot for numero uno.
Mike Beck's contribution was as much performance art as it was percussion.
His 'kit' was pretty massive. I don't remember if he had a kitchen sink, but he had a whole bunch of stuff.
It added a bunch of magic to the live performances.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
-- Aristotle
Nostalgia, you know, ain't what it used to be. Furthermore, they tells me, it never was.
“A Man Who Does Not Read Has No Appreciable Advantage Over the Man Who Cannot Read” - Mark Twain
I have the live cd and my only gripe is that the volume is really low and you have to crank it higher than other discs. If you forget that you did this and put on another cd things can get dicey. lol
I agree with every word. Stan's voice never bothered me. I love to sing along with him.
Has some of their very best and also very worst compositions, imo.
Steve F.
www.waysidemusic.com
www.cuneiformrecords.com
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
“Remember, if it doesn't say "Cuneiform," it's not prog!” - THE Jed Levin
Any time any one speaks to me about any musical project, the one absolute given is "it will not make big money". [tip of the hat to HK]
"Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"
please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.
Two peas from the same pod for me.
no tunes, no dynamics, no nosebone
I'll also add that I love Death's Crown very much too. In-fact, it might be the one album of their's that gets the most spins here at my place.
In a record-store in 1979 I listened to S/T after reading a review. But the record-shop owner advised to buy Crafty Hands, which I bought without listening. Later I bought S/T too. Maybe because I was more and more into progressive jazz-rock I've always loved Crafty Hands more. Ron Riddle's drumming was very much in the style of Bill Bruford and I guess it was a good choice when they reunited they asked him for the job. But through the years S/T has grown on me, especially after the remastered CD's. Because the LP was quite long, there was not a lot of dynamic in it. The One Way/Musea-release showed the real beauty of the album.
Better Late could have been a lot better too with a Ken Scott-production.
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