Happy The Man- s/t 'Masterpiece Debut'

[Scrotum Scissor]

Kit is still in my opinion every bit as strong as any of the keyboardist of that time.. Wakeman, Moraz, Emerson, Banks etc.

IMHO he would outplay all of those, and I'm not kidding or exaggerating.

[Phlakaton]

IMHO he would outplay all of those, and I'm not kidding or exaggerating.

I'd agree. Awesome player. Although the styles of other guys might trump him a touch for me... I still love Jan Hammer's style more than any other player. That's just my thing.

[Reginod]

Yeah Watkins is/was very highly evolved as a keyboardist. He was great as a player but composition IMO is where he has really excelled over the years, very rarely gifted in that regard.

[JKL2000]

I blame everyone who wasn't a fan of symphonic prog. With extreme prejudice.

[nosebone]

IMHO he would outplay all of those, and I'm not kidding or exaggerating.

Not Emo at his peak.

[MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER]

They didn't pair them with 'appropriate' acts because by the time their albums were coming out, symphonic rock was DEAD. Who were they going to play with who were appropriate?

True, Symph was dead by 1978, but Kansas probably would have been a good pairing seeing as they were still on the radio in 78

[JKL2000]

Not Emo at his peak.

Emo couldn't swing.

[Dusty Chalk]

I blame everyone who wasn't a fan of symphonic prog. With extreme prejudice.

"You lot." Seriously? I listened to DC101 and 'HFS around the 70's, I didn't hear them until the third album.

But do you know who I blame? The programmers. They probably listened to HTM and said, "we can't play this -- it's awesome, but we can't play this. It's...it's...what's the opposite of easy listening...difficult listening. Yeah, that's what this is, difficult listening.". The DJs and the list programmers didn't know they could play stuff that complex.

[JeffCarney]

IMHO he would outplay all of those, and I'm not kidding or exaggerating.

In what way?

I know it's never enough for you to praise someone you like or see him praised. You have to assert that he is leaps and bounds beyond the more "known" players.

I mean, the guy is one of the most brilliant Moog soloists of all time, and one hell of a player. But he lacked some discipline and arguably overplayed one hell of a lot. As a composer, to try to match him up with Banks or Emerson would just be silly, IMO. And Wakeman was arguably a much more capable team player. He could bring ideas to life without ever touching his pitch wheel.

[Oreb]

IMHO he would outplay all of those, and I'm not kidding or exaggerating.

I think the primary difference between Kit and Emo/Wakey is one of taste. E & W were showmen/entertainers. They impress the 'chops' crowd enormously but IMO they struggle (sometimes successfully, e.g 'Karn Evil 9, Second Impression' and 'The Six Wives of Henry VIII') for content of much lasting worth. Bread and circuses, otherwise.

I'd put him alongside Banks and Moraz, however.

[MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER]

well, Kit is much more tasteful than the other Symph guys... but he cant touch the capital P Progressive masterworks from Crossings to Thrust by the ultimate Keyboard master HH

[Rivers Job]

New year, why not join up at PE. Must donate too. Thanks for all the great discussions in 2014!

Have all the HTM stuff and never could get quite as thrilled as hoped. Everything is in place but the music doesn't move me. Too much Rhodes? Kind of forced/corny humour? Not weird enough, the writing isn't as strong as it could be, not sure....That said, service with a smile is an all time favourite prog anthem. I hope to better appreciate their stuff in the future. I enjoy Kit's first album much more.

I have the Ken Scott book and thought I would share some choice bits. Artisa flew Ken to a small town in Virginia to see a band at at hole in the wall called the cellar door. The band was HTM and he "fell in love with them". Scott spends a paragraph on Mike Beck praising his innovations and musicality. "I only met one other percussionist anything like Mike, the famed Airto Moreira". Speaking to Steve F's point - " Arista had no idea how to market a band like HTM, so the first album didn't sell very much. They liked what we did enough to take a chance on a second album though". Lastly Scott talks about only walking off two sessions because of drugs. One was John Lennon the other was HTM. Apparently Stan was discovered "inhaling the white powder" after being warned.

[JJ88]

The vocal numbers aren't that bothersome really, they aren't like commercial/AOR tracks or anything that musically stand alone from the rest. I'm not sure what I'd call their music...it doesn't strike me as being 'fusion'. I guess the closest point of comparison for me is something like the Gentle Giant of 'Boys In The Band'....maybe even The Enid on things like 'Starborne'.

I don't know the second album. I've always been very fond of that track Kit Watkins brought to Camel, 'Eye Of The Storm', though. (Rather less impressively, he co-wrote 'Remote Romance'!)

[Rand Kelly]

Kit was pretty innovative I think in the way he used a wah-wah pedal on his minimoog. I had never heard anyone play it like that before him. His 2 solos on Camel's Wait are pretty damn incredible and I always feel sorry for Jan Schellas playing in between Kit on that track.

[calyx]

Kit was pretty innovative I think in the way he used a wah-wah pedal on his minimoog. I had never heard anyone play it like that before him. His 2 solos on Camel's Wait are pretty damn incredible and I always feel sorry for Jan Schelhaas playing in between Kit on that track.

I think Jan did rather well - they had contrasting styles which they put to good use, also with the different time signatures on their respective segments. It shows how differently you can play the same instrument.

[Scrotum Scissor]

I think the primary difference between Kit and Emo/Wakey is one of taste. E & W were showmen/entertainers. They impress the 'chops' crowd enormously but IMO they struggle (sometimes successfully, e.g 'Karn Evil 9, Second Impression' and 'The Six Wives of Henry VIII') for content of much lasting worth. Bread and circuses, otherwise.

This.

You somehow feel that at heart he was a fusion player. Technically speaking, he was probably closest to Moraz (from the ones mentioned) or perhaps someone like Patrick Gauthier.

[Scrotum Scissor]

I know it's never enough for you

I CAN'T GET ENOUGH, JEFF!

[Scrotum Scissor]

No.

I pointed out such an opinion *once* - in regard to modern drummers. There's no "never" or "pattern" involved. My reason for writing what I did about Watkins, was simply the fact that I find more developed taste to his sense of arrangement and orchestration of the keys and their role in the music. Are those lightning-sharp and ultra-fast synth-licks always asked for? Certainly not, but neither are they goofy as with Emerson/Wakeman. I also feel that Watkins was a more self-assured technician than, say, Banks. But this is all OK. My fave UK keysmen of the early 70s were Ratledge, Stewart and Banton anyway.

[Steve F.]

Artisa flew Ken to a small town in Virginia to see a band at at hole in the wall called the cellar door..

The Cellar Door was a small-ish club in D.C. (not Virginia), but it was hardly a 'hole in the wall'; it was the premier showcase club for up and coming acts in DC (Miles Davis' very famous "Live Evil" among other albums, was recorded there).

[calyx]

The Cellar Door was a small-ish club in D.C. (not Virginia), but it was hardly a 'hole in the wall'.

They also had their own management agency, who I believe initially signed HTM and got them the Arista deal.

[Steve F.]

They also had their own management agency, who I believe initially signed HTM and got them the Arista deal.

This is all correct.

Here's a good bit of info about the club.

[JeffCarney]

Kit was pretty innovative I think in the way he used a wah-wah pedal on his minimoog.

Very much so! Good point I think this thread had thus far missed.

[calyx]

Here's a good bit of info about the club.

Good job, but they mention the "Cellar Door Sessions" box with no mention of "Live/Evil" so I corrected that.

[No Pride]

I have the debut, CH and Better Late. I made a CD-R out of my favorite tracks from all three and love it! I don't love any of those albums all the way through, so I can't call any of them "a masterpiece," but the good stuff is really good! I tend to prefer Kit and Stan's writing... and in that order.

And yes, Kit is (was?) one of the all time great Moog soloists; right up there with Jan Hammer. I'd say both were fusion players when they improvised, but had symph-prog sensibilities in their composing.

[calyx]

I tend to prefer Kit and Stan's writing... and in that order.

Interesting - Frank's pieces have always been my favourites : "New York Dream's Suite", "Ibby it Is", "While Crome Yellow Shine" (co-written with Watkins, but Wyatt's chords), "Death's Crown"...