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Thread: Happy The Man- s/t 'Masterpiece Debut'

  1. #26
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    Very strange to me that someone could like the first but not Crafty Hands. Wind Up Doll Day Wind is just amazing. The rest is really just as great.

  2. #27
    I actually heard Better Late... first, then went back and got the first two. I think they're all fantastic, and it's so head & shoulders above most everything else, that I can't really favor one track over another. I did see them a couple times at State Theater (2000, 2002). They were supposed to release the 2000 show, but couldn't, because of a certain howler.
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  3. #28
    Member Digital_Man's Avatar
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    I'm not that familiar with the albums but I've seen them live about three times and they were great. For some reason they are considered to be a relatively obscure band over at progarchives. Folks over there didn't seem to agree with me that they are pretty much legendary in prog circles(or at least hardcore prog circles).
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  4. #29
    Subterranean Tapir Hobo Chang Ba's Avatar
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    The debut is at the top of the list for me as well. But Crafty Hands and Death's Crown are close behind.

    I also have a soft spot for Beginnings.
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  5. #30
    Member Oreb's Avatar
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    I found Crafty Hands took longer to click with me, but these days I tend to reach for it more than the (still marvelous) debut.

    That's not due to the relative lack of vocals: I really enjoy his voice. There's a vulnerability to it that I find appealing.

    I think 'Starborne' is one of the best album openers I've heard.

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  6. #31
    Member Proghound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digital_Man View Post
    ..... For some reason they are considered to be a relatively obscure band over at progarchives. Folks over there didn't seem to agree with me that they are pretty much legendary in prog circles(or at least hardcore prog circles).
    As Steve F. mentioned they were pretty huge in the VA, DC, MD- mid atlantic area. One of the best shows I've ever seen was when a local radio station sponsored a huge concert at Carter Baron Amphitheater in DC. Aug 30 1977, what a great night. They could have had great success if Arista hadn't unceremoniously dropped them like a used rubber..
    Last edited by Proghound; 01-03-2015 at 08:11 PM.

  7. #32
    Crafty hands is a fair bit better imo. The highlight of the debut is Upon the rainbow

  8. #33
    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proghound View Post
    They could have had great success if Arista hadn't unceremoniously dropped them like a used rubber..
    They had their shot at great success and no one was buying. BOTH albums on Arista were total sales failures. I loved them. I would have loved to see them get some success, but to blame Arista for their lack of success for dropping them after TWO albums that didn't sell shit, is really, just misguided, IMO.
    Steve F.

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    “Remember, if it doesn't say "Cuneiform," it's not prog!” - THE Jed Levin

    Any time any one speaks to me about any musical project, the one absolute given is "it will not make big money". [tip of the hat to HK]

    "Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"

    please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.

  9. #34
    The times they were a changin'.. is why they were dumped by Arista.. I was fortunate to see them with Beck.. agree he was quite the percussionist.. IMHO he is why the debut was so special..also saw them on the tour supporting the second album with Coco behind the kit.. Wonderful show.. as well.. As Steve mentioned they made their rounds in my "backyard" Charlottesville, and of course Harrisonburg (where I saw them twice) and had quite the cult following.. Kit is still in my opinion every bit as strong as any of the keyboardist of that time.. Wakeman, Moraz, Emerson, Banks etc.

  10. #35
    I love them all, but Crafty Hands is my fav...
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  11. #36
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    My first exposure to HTM was "Retrospective". My 2nd was "Muse Awakens". I liked both a lot but did not really become a slobbering fanboy until I saw them live at a microbrewery outside of Boston in 2003 or 04. To this day that remains a lifetime top-10 concert experience. For a few days afterward I was walking around in a daze thinking about not much other than the show--and how privileged I was to have seen something that great. I bought HTM and CH after that and love 'em both. No way I could pick one over the other.

  12. #37
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    I also think Stan's vocals are fine. It may be that he lacked confidence in them since their two singers from before the debut were very good.

    I'm probably in the minority, but I like Death's Crown and Beginnings better than the Arista albums.

  13. #38
    Member Since: 3/27/2002 MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER's Avatar
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    Quite possibly the greatest Symph band from the USA. There were of course many Fusion artists from the USA who were just as great if not better but for the Symph style of Prog music, HTM are my favorite hands down.

    I like all 3 of the first albums equally. I wish Deaths Crown had been recorded in high quality. It's hard to get past the poor sound on that one for me.
    Why is it whenever someone mentions an artist that was clearly progressive (yet not the Symph weenie definition of Prog) do certain people feel compelled to snort "thats not Prog" like a whiny 5th grader?

  14. #39
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    I could never pick between this one and Crafty Hands myself. I find them both to be great albums. I love the one the most that I'm playing at the time. Have to pull these off the shelf and play again. Thanks for the reminder.

  15. #40
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    [QUOTE=Steve F.;353562]They had their shot at great success and no one was buying. BOTH albums on Arista were total sales failures....../QUOTE]

    and especially in those days that had a lot to do with promotion, pairing them with appropriate acts, and pushing radio stations...They were a talented band and Arista obviously saw potential or they wouldn't have booked them to begin with, but I don't feel, and I don't believe they felt they got the support... I don't solely blame Arista, but I'm not misguided either.

  16. #41
    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proghound View Post

    ....and I don't believe they felt they got the got the support...
    Find me ONE BAND who were on a major label, did NOT make it, and say, "Well, I guess the time wasn't right for us; we certainly got the support!"

    All I'm asking for is one!



    Seriously, it was 1978; what big radio station was going to play THAT music at THAT time?

    They didn't pair them with 'appropriate' acts because by the time their albums were coming out, symphonic rock was DEAD. Who were they going to play with who were appropriate? Talking Heads? DEVO?

    The time when they MIGHT (maybe) have had a chance in the marketplace was 5 years earlier. It certainly wasn't their fault, but their timing of what they had to offer in the MARKETPLACE was at least 5 years off.

    IMO.
    Steve F.

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    www.cuneiformrecords.com

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    “Remember, if it doesn't say "Cuneiform," it's not prog!” - THE Jed Levin

    Any time any one speaks to me about any musical project, the one absolute given is "it will not make big money". [tip of the hat to HK]

    "Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"

    please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.

  17. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve F. View Post
    Who were they going to play with who were appropriate? Talking Heads? DEVO?
    .
    Either would've made total sense to me...

    The debut didn't get airplay for one good reason: Most of the tracks were instrumental and for the most part, AOR radio wasn't having that.

    Interesting that when Arista signed prog artists with a track record (Caravan, Camel, Strawbs, Ant Phillips) the label insisted on streamlined commercial music...but when they finally signed a new prog band, they were allowed to make a fully artistic album. My guess is that they thought HTM would appeal more to the fusion audience.

  18. #43
    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bRETT View Post
    My guess is that they thought HTM would appeal more to the fusion audience.
    Based on the choice of Ken Scott and based on some of the decisions he (or they) made, I think that's a pretty perceptive guess.
    Steve F.

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    “Remember, if it doesn't say "Cuneiform," it's not prog!” - THE Jed Levin

    Any time any one speaks to me about any musical project, the one absolute given is "it will not make big money". [tip of the hat to HK]

    "Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"

    please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.

  19. #44
    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bRETT View Post
    Either would've made total sense to me...
    Looking back at it now, maybe.

    At the time, no.

    Did you go see bands like Talking Heads and DEVO in 1978? I did, and their audiences would have eaten HTM alive, IMO.
    Steve F.

    www.waysidemusic.com
    www.cuneiformrecords.com

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    “Remember, if it doesn't say "Cuneiform," it's not prog!” - THE Jed Levin

    Any time any one speaks to me about any musical project, the one absolute given is "it will not make big money". [tip of the hat to HK]

    "Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"

    please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.

  20. #45
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    Steve, it's exactly the same thing with the band England on the same label Arista, around the same time. The timing was simply wrong by the late 70s for bands like this, no matter how good they were (and both were), to make any real impact.

  21. #46
    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    Steve, it's exactly the same thing with the band England on the same label Arista, around the same time. The timing was simply wrong by the late 70s for bands like this, no matter how good they were (and both were), to make any real impact.
    I agree. That's why blaming it a 'lack of support' is misguided, IMO.
    Steve F.

    www.waysidemusic.com
    www.cuneiformrecords.com

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    “Remember, if it doesn't say "Cuneiform," it's not prog!” - THE Jed Levin

    Any time any one speaks to me about any musical project, the one absolute given is "it will not make big money". [tip of the hat to HK]

    "Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"

    please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.

  22. #47
    Member nosebone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve F. View Post
    Based on the choice of Ken Scott and based on some of the decisions he (or they) made, I think that's a pretty perceptive guess.
    Ken Scott produced the Dixie Dregs around the same time.

    Considering it was the late 70s, that band toured relentlessly and took it as far as any instrumental act could possibly go.
    no tunes, no dynamics, no nosebone

  23. #48
    Member Proghound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve F. View Post
    Seriously, it was 1978; what big radio station was going to play THAT music at THAT time?....They didn't pair them with 'appropriate' acts because by the time their albums were coming out, symphonic rock was DEAD. Who were they going to play with who were appropriate? Talking Heads? DEVO? The time when they MIGHT (maybe) have had a chance in the marketplace was 5 years earlier. It certainly wasn't their fault, but their timing of what they had to offer in the MARKETPLACE was at least 5 years off. IMO.
    Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't it DC101, one the most popular radio stations in the area, that sponsored the Carter Baron show? So they were getting airplay...I would also say WAYE, WHFS and WGTB were definitely playing their music. If they had a good following in the DC area, why not other markets? You think what popularity they had in DC was all word of mouth? I also believe Arista handled the Dixie Dregs who I believe were still making music at the time. So there's your one.

    Interesting when I look at who I saw in 1978, ELP, Peter Hammill, HTM, David Bowie, UK, Genesis, Yes, PG...1979 Fripp, National Health, 1980 GG, Genesis, Bruford, Hackett... so if you were listening to this genre 5 years before, generally you were still listening and looking for this style of music.. just as people on this forum still are. I don't deny they may have been late to the show, but all I know is the members of the band that I know were not happy with Arista's support.

  24. #49
    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
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    ^^^^^^^

    As I said, find me ONE FAILED band who didn't blame the label. Are the Dregs a failed band? Did they blame themselves? Not sure what your point is....

    Failed bands never are happy with the support. Easier to blame the label than to look inward, y'know?
    Last edited by Steve F.; 01-04-2015 at 12:36 PM.
    Steve F.

    www.waysidemusic.com
    www.cuneiformrecords.com

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    “Remember, if it doesn't say "Cuneiform," it's not prog!” - THE Jed Levin

    Any time any one speaks to me about any musical project, the one absolute given is "it will not make big money". [tip of the hat to HK]

    "Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"

    please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.

  25. #50
    Just a layman's opinion, but I don't think it was HtM or Arista's fault that the band were never "big". It's just the way music and markets were working at the time. The only really "big" prog bands at the time were the ones that were already grandfathered in (not so ironically, the same ones that remained "big" into the eighties and beyond). Music of HtM's ilk (as wonderful as it was) just wasn't going to make a splash outside of its own already-insular niche.
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