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Thread: Rock music's current status

  1. #51
    Oh No! Bass Solo! klothos's Avatar
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    Personally, I don't think its a "Rock has disappeared" thing anyway --- What it really is happens to be the shuffling of instrumentation:

    Think about it: The keyboard player was a mainstay in many Mainstream Rock bands since the 60s, eventually evolving into the "Synthesist" by the 70s that continued into the 80s....then, about 1993, the synthesizer player disappeared in Mainstream Rock Music..Count how many Mainstream Radio Popular Rock Bands that debuted during the 90s (post '93) that had dedicated permanent keyboard/synthesizer players in which their contribution effected the band's overall sound and performance? I can only think of one as of this writing: Marilyn Manson, but they were different than most of the other Mainstream Rock acts of their time in the fact that they were also infusing techno, industrial, and goth into what they do and most of their mainstream peers didn't.

    This continued all the way into the mid 2000s, then bands like Maroon 5, Click 5, OK Go (they didnt have a keyboard player but synths were in their music), The Killers, etc started appearing and synths were coming back, not to mention all of the other technology that had been developed along the way...However, the guitar - as the ever-present driving force in Rock that it had been for previous decades, started taking a back seat and we are currently still in the middle of this lull......

    As far as what is mainstream and influencing the masses of players as well as listeners, I think this thread has less to do with "What happened to Rock?" than "What happened to guitar-driven music?"
    Last edited by klothos; 12-30-2014 at 09:56 PM.

  2. #52
    Member Digital_Man's Avatar
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    I have noticed that most serious music fans these days, or at least a lot of them, tend to be fans of indie rock and different kinds of alternative and indie music. I am on one website where people in their thirties, forties and beyond list many indie bands as their favorites. I'm not sure what this means except maybe that people who take their music really seriously are not into mainstream stuff much and probably own a turn table.
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  3. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Facelift View Post
    I like rock so I'm hoping that it makes another comeback - I'm just not expecting it to.
    Great arguments. Agree 100%.
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  4. #54
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    I think there are two sides to this question.

    From a UK perspective:

    1. Is Rock music dead as far as the mainstream media are concerned? Yes. But then again it has pretty much been that way for the last 20 years.
    2. Is Rock music dead from a music perspective? 100% no.

    I go to @ 30 or so gigs a year, 99.99% of them from bands that would be considered Rock bands. Of those gigs, from 'local' gigs in venues up to @ 3000 people to Arena tours, I would say well over 80% are sold out, of the remaining 20% the vast majority are over 80% full, more often than not over 90% full.

    That is also translating in to album sales with the likes of Slipknot, Avenged Sevenfold, Within Temptation, Black Stone Cherry, etc, all having Top 10 selling albums this year, widen that out to the Top 20 and the list is considerably longer.

    The same is also true in Europe. Next year's Wacken Open Air in Germany, who still haven't announced a single act, sold out in 15 minutes a couple of months ago. Hellfest in France next June has also already sold out.

    Most of the people I see at gigs and festivals are under 30 with a gender split of @ 60/40 male to female and not the stereotypical middle-aged white male the media loves to portray.

    That doesn't sound like a "dead" genre to me.
    Last edited by glawster2002; 12-31-2014 at 07:21 AM. Reason: Typo

  5. #55
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    Can someone name a new (last year or so), widely known US rock band?

  6. #56
    Member zravkapt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKL2000 View Post
    Can someone name a new (last year or so), widely known US rock band?
    This song was on the US charts this year:



    Nowhere near as popular as Nicki Minaj, Kanye West or Drake (ask a teenager) but far from obscure or unknown.
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  7. #57
    Member Staun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Eric View Post
    First of all, I don't believe radio can be used as a barometer any longer as its popularity/use is plummeting, which has led to the inevitible narrowing of the material for the greatest audience segment.

    The most widely used sources for music are probably all internet based, iTunes and Amazon for downloads, Spotify, Pandora, and GrooveShark for streaming and Soundcloud and Bandcamp for artist direct downloads, streaming and purchases.

    Secondly, live music venues are featuring rock based line-ups continuously, at least they are in my area.
    First of all Eric, happy new year. You know, walking through the office, there are alot of radios going, different stations, the parking lot, more radios, at stop lights and in stores, I still hear radios. Hasn't totally been phased out yet but it's on it's way I agree. One complaint I hear in my neck of the woods is, the clubs here only like certain types of music and that's all we get. I think they have a point. It's the same old same old by different people and bands. Seems to be a DMZ for anything new and different.
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  8. #58
    There have been a lot of interesting posts here are my 2 cents

    1.> Rock is Most definitely NOT dead. There are perhaps more band working in more genres & subgenera then at any time previous. And, as noted above the "Festival Circuit" is going gangbusters and is almost entirely driven by Rock and associated genres.

    But

    2.> Casual Music Fans have almost entirely abandoned Rock.

    The average Man or Woman on the street has a few MP3s on their phone, probably involving songs by Beyonce, Ms Swift, Kayne and whoever last gave it up on The Voice (and of course only a minority of those MP3s were actually paid for). Which is to say Rocks place in the collective Zeitgeist is small and moving towards tiny very quickly. There are, of course, a multitude of reasons for this, but I think you can place blame on

    * The decline of Over the Air Radio. From the earliest days of RockNRoll the Radio was how the casual fan picked up on new artists. Not for nothing was Alan Freed (the Second Moondog) inducted into the R&RHOF. And as Rock Radio declined the ability of the Casual Fan to hear something new dropped off with it. So if you like the IPOD pushed Rock aside.

    * The almost complete focus of the Marketing Machinery of (whats left of) The Major Labels on Contemporary R&B / Pop / NeoCountry / legacy acts. This sort of follows from point one above. Urban Radio playing Contemporary R&B and country Radio still have a presence, which is to say they have a promotion channel left that the Majors understand.

    * The rebranding of Rap and Pop as a career / path to riches, fame, and glory. Which is to say the extinguishing of the last tiny bit of revolutionary / countercultural spirit underlying both the 60s explosion and the Punk movements. Which is to say that for the casual fan music is Muzak and has no cultural associations whatsoever outside of the events of their own life.

    So, ( if you wanna put in a Dr Who-ish timeline perspective ) Rock has gotten to the place that Jazz reached in 1950. Everybody knows that once Giants (EG The Duke, The Count, Benny Goodman et al) roamed the earth and commanded the publics full attention (and many still carried on for rather a while yet), but now something is Totally Different and most people don't pay much attention at all. The fans you do have left seem more devoted and engaged but there are so fewer of them than before. . .

    The Good News is

    That a LOT of the best Jazz ever made came (long) after the "Culture" had moved on.

    The Bad News is

    I don't think ANY of the Jazz Heros accumulated a Stash 1/10th the size of Brian Mays pile (as one example). So the idea of being a Rock N Roll STAR is gone, finito, done. Take Fripps advice to heart (Only go into music if there is No Other Choice)

    Can it come back.

    Probably Not from the US. AS Per JKL's question above. In England, they do seem to produce a couple of new ("Alternative") Rock Hero's every year or so. Think Kaiser Chiefs, Arctic Monkeys, etc. This may relate to the BBC still being a force. So one could imagine a Rock Orientated One Direction perhaps causing a new bubble worldwide, but as others have said, I wouldn't hold my breath.

    So no, I don't think there will ever be a Boston, or Journey, or Pat Benatar, or REO Speedwagon, or even a Huey Lewis and the News ever again (Which is to say a very successful band playing mainstream rock. I m not as Sorry as I could be either )

    There will be plenty of Tame Impalas, Sonars, Decemberists, Earthless, Samsara Blues Experiences, My Brother the Wind et al to enjoy though


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  9. #59
    Member No Pride's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by klothos View Post
    As far as what is mainstream and influencing the masses of players as well as listeners, I think this thread has less to do with "What happened to Rock?" than "What happened to guitar-driven music?"
    I thought rock IS guitar-driven music! So now it's "WAS?" Jeez, am I going to have to join the trombone players and apply for a job delivering pizzas now?


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  11. #61
    Oh No! Bass Solo! klothos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by No Pride View Post
    I thought rock IS guitar-driven music!

    Someone forgot to tell that to Emerson, Lake, and Palmer

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by klothos View Post
    Someone forgot to tell that to Emerson, Lake, and Palmer
    Nah, I told them. Keith told me to bugger off, but Greg took me aside later and confided that he thought his guitar solo in "Karn Evil 9" was their shining hour.

  13. #63
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKL2000 View Post
    Can someone name a new (last year or so), widely known US rock band?
    Playlist for the local "Alternative Rock" station.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  14. #64
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    It's the same in the UK- relatively few rock bands breaking through. The playlists are dominated by over-produced dance pop and the so-called 'New Boring' of plodding, same-chords-all-the-way-through balladeers.

  15. #65
    Member Just Eric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKL2000 View Post
    So if there's new "mainstream" music being released, how does it's audience find out about it? Is it somehow "suggested" by those streaming services? Are there popular "pop" stations on those services that serve a similar purpose to what MTV did?
    Each of the streaming and D/L services I mentioned act like radio, highlighting new releases, putting together playlists, etc. Spotify, based on my taste, highlights new Metal releases on my page frequently.

    In the San Francisco Bay Area we are inundated with Pop/Top 40 and Classic Rock radio, BUT we also have at least 3 mainstream stations playing Indie and Alternative and they often stretch into harder rock territory.
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  16. #66
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    I really do hope Rock is dead. Never liked being in the mainstream. Much cooler to be part of an underground scene.

    That said, Biffy Clyro is pretty big in the UK and they're great!!!
    The Prog Corner

  17. #67
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    I don't care about the RRHOF, but why is it in Cleveland, OH? Seems to me that RNR started in places like Memphis, TN, New Orleans, LA, and Nashville, TN, and even Chicago, where Chuck Berry recorded for Chess.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Digital_Man View Post
    I have noticed that most serious music fans these days, or at least a lot of them, tend to be fans of indie rock and different kinds of alternative and indie music. I am on one website where people in their thirties, forties and beyond list many indie bands as their favorites. I'm not sure what this means except maybe that people who take their music really seriously are not into mainstream stuff much and probably own a turn table.
    Jam bands also seem to have a pretty loyal fairly large following. Umphry's Mcgee (who I consider at least somewhat prog) and Gov't Mule come to mind. When they play areound here they always sell out and the audience is pretty young (especially for UM).

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKL2000 View Post
    Can someone name a new (last year or so), widely known US rock band?
    I posted a video earlier in this thread of Rival Sons most recent appearance on Letterman. They are a great young rock band that are at least big enough to make it on Letterman.

  20. #70
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Bails View Post
    Old Greybeards, Deathcab for Cutie.

  21. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by glawster2002 View Post
    That doesn't sound like a "dead" genre to me.
    You are talking mostly mainstream heavy metal, which (for the last 20 years) is the most commercially healthy subgenre of rock. In a record store I used to co-run, the army of metalheads were always the best clients.

    But this ain't rock music as a whole. And from an artistic point of view it's probably it's most uninteresting aspect i.m.o.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davis View Post
    I don't care about the RRHOF, but why is it in Cleveland, OH? Seems to me that RNR started in places like Memphis, TN, New Orleans, LA, and Nashville, TN, and even Chicago, where Chuck Berry recorded for Chess.
    That's probably a good reason not to have the HOF in any of those places. If it were located in, say, Memphis, there could be a feeling of the place being owned by the city, and allegations, justified or otherwise, of it being biased too much towards the Memphis sound, whereas in a plce like Cleveland it's more like something owned by the USA as a whole.

    Also, it's probably good for the city, as I don't think Cleveland is known for much else... I've never been there and am not from the USA, but one never hears of stuff in Cleveland that would draw the tourists. New York City has Times Square and Central Park, Washington has the White House and the Capitol, LA has Hollywood, New Orleans has the French Quarter. Does Cleveland have anything of note, apart from the aforementioned HOF?

  23. #73
    Progga mogrooves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob_32_116 View Post
    ... one never hears of stuff in Cleveland that would draw the tourists.
    Maybe they could set the Cuyahoga River on fire every year. "Cleveland smokes!"
    Last edited by mogrooves; 01-01-2015 at 11:09 AM.
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  24. #74
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    The indie and metal genres are still thriving but they thrive on the edge. Established rock acts (Springsteen, U2, Foo Fighters) still sell out big venues but album sales are nowhere near what they used to be and we'll never see that again. Like Townsend pointed out several years ago, rock is better off being in the underground.
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  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob_32_116 View Post
    That's probably a good reason not to have the HOF in any of those places. If it were located in, say, Memphis, there could be a feeling of the place being owned by the city, and allegations, justified or otherwise, of it being biased too much towards the Memphis sound, whereas in a plce like Cleveland it's more like something owned by the USA as a whole.

    Also, it's probably good for the city, as I don't think Cleveland is known for much else... I've never been there and am not from the USA, but one never hears of stuff in Cleveland that would draw the tourists. New York City has Times Square and Central Park, Washington has the White House and the Capitol, LA has Hollywood, New Orleans has the French Quarter. Does Cleveland have anything of note, apart from the aforementioned HOF?
    Back in the day people in Michigan used to call Cleveland “the mistake by the lake”. Of course the infamous incident where the Cuyahoga river caught fire was a big part of that. Today, downtown Cleveland has made a pretty major comeback and is a cool city to visit. The area along the river known as “The Flats” is full of great bars and restaurants and a fun place to hang out in the summer. Along with the Rock Hall, there is also a big science museum, baseball and football stadiums, and other attractions. I still probably would not call Cleveland a “tourist” town, but it has come a long way over the years.

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