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Thread: Rock music's current status

  1. #26
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    To me it seems like there's no new music that the general public is aware of, but maybe I just never encounter it. Is there still new music being released, and if so by what methods? I never hear anything new, of any genre.

  2. #27
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKL2000 View Post
    T Is there still new music being released, and if so by what methods?
    Seriously?
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digital_Man View Post
    The further away something is from the mainstream the more popular it becomes.


    It seems to me that rock is no longer relevant to pop culture, at least for the most part. Singers and machines, that's what it's all about now. When's the last time you heard a top 40 song that had a guitar solo? I mean besides the c&w station? There are still some rock bands that have retained their popularity, like The Foo Fighters. But new ones? They're around, but they're not in the mainstream.

    It could turn around; things have a tendency to cycle back in favor. I just wouldn't advise holding your breath.
    Last edited by No Pride; 12-30-2014 at 12:02 PM.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Bails View Post
    Seriously?
    You're not actually surprised, are you Scott?

  5. #30
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    No, I suppose not.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  6. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Facelift View Post
    Rock is dead and has been for a number of years now.
    Thx for a great post, man.

    I absolutely agree with everything you say. Even the concept of "mainstream rock" as cultural construction and phenomenon ran a lineary narrative of development and evolution, stylistically or otherwise. Today you can't even get self-declared "progressive" listeners to take in anything genuinely new - and the major dilemma here is not the dimension of definition, but the actual subjective motivation towards attitudes of creativity in modern consumer culture.

    If rock music hadn't been flat dead, then we wouldn't be asking the question in the first Place.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  7. #32
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Bails View Post
    Seriously?
    Quote Originally Posted by No Pride View Post
    You're not actually surprised, are you Scott?
    I said "that the general public is aware of." Meaning almost none of the music discussed on PE.

    If there is, I never hear any of it. It seemed ubiquitous till some point in the '90's. Except for the occasional teen hit that for some reason becomes widely aired (Call Me Maybe for example), I never hear any new music aimed at a large, mainstream audience. I know Taylor Swift has a new album out just because of the whole Spotify thing, and I heard that Madonna has a new album. But I've not heard a note of either album and haven't heard of any others recently.

    Are you guys saying there are still as many mainstream albums being released now as there were in the '90's?

    I've never browsed on iTunes or any other mainstream online digital music store - maybe that's where it all is. I'm sort of guessing it's mostly rap, latin, Country & Western, teen, etc though.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKL2000 View Post
    I said "that the general public is aware of." Meaning almost none of the music discussed on PE.

    If there is, I never hear any of it. It seemed ubiquitous till some point in the '90's. Except for the occasional teen hit that for some reason becomes widely aired (Call Me Maybe for example), I never hear any new music aimed at a large, mainstream audience. I know Taylor Swift has a new album out just because of the whole Spotify thing, and I heard that Madonna has a new album. But I've not heard a note of either album and haven't heard of any others recently.

    Are you guys saying there are still as many mainstream albums being released now as there were in the '90's?
    The mainstream IS generally teens and twenty-somethings. 'Twas ever thus. It's just that the Industry used to put more stock in the intelligence of that demographic. Or maybe that's just me being the old fart that I am.

  9. #34
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKL2000 View Post
    Are you guys saying there are still as many mainstream albums being released now as there were in the '90's?

    I've never browsed on iTunes or any other mainstream online digital music store - maybe that's where it all is. I'm sort of guessing it's mostly rap, latin, Country & Western, teen, etc though.
    Yes, still as many mainstream albums. But the mainstream is now teen pop (always has been, really) and hip-hop - genres that I'm sure you don't follow. But modern rock still releases albums, too. Just browse your radio - new music all the time, if you tune to the right stations.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  10. #35
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Bails View Post
    Yes, still as many mainstream albums. But the mainstream is now teen pop (always has been, really) and hip-hop - genres that I'm sure you don't follow. But modern rock still releases albums, too. Just browse your radio - new music all the time, if you tune to the right stations.
    I think the mainstream audience has changed a lot from a demographics standpoint.

    I'm not sure where you live, but in the metro NYC area I don't think there are any good radio stations that are playing music all the time. Just classic rock and urban stations.

  11. #36
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    You need tween or teenaged kids, Jed.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  12. #37
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Bails View Post
    You need tween or teenaged kids, Jed.
    I have a 15-year old, but he doesn't really know of any new music either. Not that he'd be interested in.

  13. #38
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    underground scenes are thriving. that's a lot of what I listen to.

  14. #39
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    Maybe Rock is irrelevant as a pop medium, but it's not irrelevant culturally. The college scene is hugely Rock oriented and live music is still dominated by the Rock genreS. I do agree that Rock has lost its once vaulted influence on society and current issues, but as art it is thriving.
    Duncan's going to make a Horns Emoticon!!!

  15. #40
    Progga mogrooves's Avatar
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    We each have our own history with this music. Mine is that by the mid-70s the larger cultural circumstances that had given rise---and meaning--to Rock music in the first place had passed. Rock culture was essentially exhausted, as was its music and the spirit that animated both. Drained of its cultural force, everything that had given the 60s its passion, energy, meaning, and creativity had dissipated and been replaced by fatigue and exploitation. Hence, Rock passed with the very circumstances that gave rise to it; the revolution--social and musical--was over.

    Something like rock followed--what I call “rock” [with intentional quotes]--but it was/is essentially a simulacrum/facsimile of it, a derivative, undead “pod music” bootlegged from the original and imposed on a different time and set of circumstances, an attenuated, self-referential (and self-parodic) music whose cultural moment had passed, a fading echo of a once vital sound and time. (The case of the execrable U2 is exemplary: ten years too late, they were a holographic projection of the iconic "Rock band." Paradoxically, this made them irrelevant at their inception, thus precluding any possibility of “jumping the shark” at some future date; they’d already done so by merely existing). "What's that sound?" became "What was that sound?"

    What that sound was--that effervescent FLASH!!! that made it a revolutionary force--no longer exists; times change. Its current practitioners might charitably be called neo-classicists, plundering any past musical style that suits them, styles that have already been done, so that its only significance--if any--is in the way it comments on something that already happened.

    Certainly, there is "rock" music being made today, but it's following the same historical trajectory as that of jazz, i.e., it's becoming--like classical music--an autonomous “art” form reserved for the delectation of the relative few who can "appreciate" it. But, as the larger cultural force it once was, it no longer matters, it doesn't mean.
    Hell, they ain't even old-timey ! - Homer Stokes

  16. #41
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    mogrooves said:
    Certainly, there is "rock" music being made today, but it's following the same historical trajectory as that of jazz, i.e., it's becoming--like classical music--an autonomous “art” form reserved for the delectation of the relative few who can "appreciate" it. But, as the larger cultural force it once was, it no longer matters, it doesn't mean.
    Relative few??? In this sense, fans yearning to hear and enjoy the music, Rock is thriving and growing in popularity. Does it have the urban scene it once captured, no, not in the least, but spend a summer traveling Europe and notice every weekend booked with Woodstock sized "Rock" related festivals and I think you may reconsider the "relative few."
    Duncan's going to make a Horns Emoticon!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Eric View Post
    Maybe Rock is irrelevant as a pop medium, but it's not irrelevant culturally. The college scene is hugely Rock oriented and live music is still dominated by the Rock genreS. I do agree that Rock has lost its once vaulted influence on society and current issues, but as art it is thriving.
    that's sorta what I was getting at in my previous post.

  18. #43
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    If I turn on the radio right now, I'll hear the same songs I've heard to death for years, I'll hear Rap Hip Hop and some form of dance music, Country Rock. All of which I hate. These are mainstream forms of popular music today. So, where do I go to hear this "good rock music"? If it's there, it's buried under all of the above. Yes, a crab or two will make it out of the bucket for a moment, but corporate hands will see that they are placed back into the bucket. First, give me something to listen to so that I may decide for myself, what is and isn't relevant. Don't give me more of the same.
    The older I get, the better I was.

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Staun View Post
    If I turn on the radio right now, I'll hear the same songs I've heard to death for years, I'll hear Rap Hip Hop and some form of dance music, Country Rock. All of which I hate. These are mainstream forms of popular music today. So, where do I go to hear this "good rock music"? If it's there, it's buried under all of the above. Yes, a crab or two will make it out of the bucket for a moment, but corporate hands will see that they are placed back into the bucket. First, give me something to listen to so that I may decide for myself, what is and isn't relevant. Don't give me more of the same.
    First of all, I don't believe radio can be used as a barometer any longer as its popularity/use is plummeting, which has led to the inevitible narrowing of the material for the greatest audience segment.

    The most widely used sources for music are probably all internet based, iTunes and Amazon for downloads, Spotify, Pandora, and GrooveShark for streaming and Soundcloud and Bandcamp for artist direct downloads, streaming and purchases.

    Secondly, live music venues are featuring rock based line-ups continuously, at least they are in my area.
    Duncan's going to make a Horns Emoticon!!!

  20. #45
    Oh No! Bass Solo! klothos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mogrooves View Post
    We each have our own history with this music. Mine is that by the mid-70s the larger cultural circumstances that had given rise---and meaning--to Rock music in the first place had passed. Rock culture was essentially exhausted, as was its music and the spirit that animated both. Drained of its cultural force, everything that had given the 60s its passion, energy, meaning, and creativity had dissipated and been replaced by fatigue and exploitation. Hence, Rock passed with the very circumstances that gave rise to it; the revolution--social and musical--was over.

    Something like rock followed--what I call “rock” [with intentional quotes]--but it was/is essentially a simulacrum/facsimile of it, a derivative, undead “pod music” bootlegged from the original and imposed on a different time and set of circumstances, an attenuated, self-referential (and self-parodic) music whose cultural moment had passed, a fading echo of a once vital sound and time. (The case of the execrable U2 is exemplary: ten years too late, they were a holographic projection of the iconic "Rock band." Paradoxically, this made them irrelevant at their inception, thus precluding any possibility of “jumping the shark” at some future date; they’d already done so by merely existing). "What's that sound?" became "What was that sound?"

    What that sound was--that effervescent FLASH!!! that made it a revolutionary force--no longer exists; times change. Its current practitioners might charitably be called neo-classicists, plundering any past musical style that suits them, styles that have already been done, so that its only significance--if any--is in the way it comments on something that already happened.

    Certainly, there is "rock" music being made today, but it's following the same historical trajectory as that of jazz, i.e., it's becoming--like classical music--an autonomous “art” form reserved for the delectation of the relative few who can "appreciate" it. But, as the larger cultural force it once was, it no longer matters, it doesn't mean.
    I disagree with the last paragraph........ It doesn't mean? To whom? Im not expecting to be my age and understand the vernacular meanings relevent to the generations younger than me, the same way my music wasn't relevent to the "Turn that shit down!"-generation of my parents...........The current or upcoming form of rock music may not mean anything to someone my age and - therefore - seem like a shallow shell, but it can perfectly well mean a lot to the peer groups that current artists intended to communicate with when composing their material

  21. #46
    Progga mogrooves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Eric View Post
    Does it have the urban scene it once captured, no, not in the least, but spend a summer traveling Europe and notice every weekend booked with Woodstock sized "Rock" related festivals and I think you may reconsider the "relative few."
    We agree on the first point, but there are equally numerous summer jazz festivals all across the US--well-attended relative to the size of its audience--but its proximity to the center of the cultural zeitgeist is only relatively further than rock's; neither is within striking distance.
    Hell, they ain't even old-timey ! - Homer Stokes

  22. #47
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Eric View Post
    First of all, I don't believe radio can be used as a barometer any longer as its popularity/use is plummeting, which has led to the inevitible narrowing of the material for the greatest audience segment.

    The most widely used sources for music are probably all internet based, iTunes and Amazon for downloads, Spotify, Pandora, and GrooveShark for streaming and Soundcloud and Bandcamp for artist direct downloads, streaming and purchases.

    Secondly, live music venues are featuring rock based line-ups continuously, at least they are in my area.
    So if there's new "mainstream" music being released, how does it's audience find out about it? Is it somehow "suggested" by those streaming services? Are there popular "pop" stations on those services that serve a similar purpose to what MTV did?

  23. #48
    Estimated Prophet notallwhowander's Avatar
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    It's not the cultural force is was, certainly. It seems that the Baby Boomers latched on to rock on a big way as a means to give voice to their aspirations. Gen Xers latched on to it too, but then the combination of hip hop and r&b appealed to the succeeding generations. Lets face it, if you were growing up in the 90s or later, rock is largely the music of the older generation.

    The kids I deal with first deal with what they have most access too. So that's the pop-promotional machine that has them in their sites: Taylor Swift, etc. Then its whatever is current in their peer group. It seems the boys like the raw and rebel feel of underground hip hop artists, and the girls like the r&b artists that churn out the love & relationship songs hand over fist. Rock is there, and good music is good music, but it tends to be a bit more remote from their experience.

    Radio is still the most accessible medium for new music. However, the internet is the grand and undiscovered country, mediated through peer group recommendations. So a radio hit is something that, say, everyone in your school can have an opinion on, because everyone has heard it. However, the stuff you and your friends dig up on the internet gives your social group a greater kind of cohesion and identity. Rock music can be part of that, but it is rarely the major part.
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  24. #49
    Oh No! Bass Solo! klothos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notallwhowander View Post
    It's not the cultural force is was, certainly. It seems that the Baby Boomers latched on to rock on a big way as a means to give voice to their aspirations. Gen Xers latched on to it too, but then the combination of hip hop and r&b appealed to the succeeding generations. Lets face it, if you were growing up in the 90s or later, rock is largely the music of the older generation.
    Are we talking about the same 90s?

  25. #50
    Estimated Prophet notallwhowander's Avatar
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    I should have wrote born in the 90s.
    Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world.

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