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Thread: FEATURED CD - Queensryche : Operation Mindcrime & Operation Mindcrime II

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    Moderator Duncan Glenday's Avatar
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    FEATURED CD - Queensryche : Operation Mindcrime & Operation Mindcrime II



    Another dual album review, in which the artist re-visits an earlier success. Per Allmusic :

    Operation Mindcrime :

    Queensr˙che scored their breakthrough success with the ambitious concept album Operation: Mindcrime, which tells the story of a fortune hunter whose disillusionment with Reagan-era American society leads him to join a shadowy plot to assassinate corrupt leaders. For such a detailed story line (there is also a tragic romance thrown in), the band keeps its focus remarkably well, and the music is just as ambitious, featuring a ten-minute track with orchestrations by Michael Kamen. Those experiments don't tend to work as well as the tighter, more melodic prog metal songs, which are frequently gems, especially the singles "Eyes of a Stranger" and "I Don't Believe in Love." Granted, the lyrics and political observations can sometimes be too serious and intellectual for their own good (few bands, metal or otherwise, can make lines like "There's no raison d'ętre" work). But despite the occasional flaws, it's surprising how well Operation: Mindcrime does work, and it's a testament to Queensr˙che's creativity and talent that they can pull off a project of this magnitude.


    Operation Mindcrime II :

    Here it is, Queensr˙che have returned, 18 years later, to the scene of their greatest triumph commercially and critically, Operation: Mindcrime, with a sequel, appropriately monikered Operation: Mindcrime II. Queensr˙che still retains four of its five original members -- vocalist Geoff Tate, guitarist Michael Wilton, bassist Eddie Jackson, and drummer Scott Rockenfeld (guitarist Mike Stone joined as a permanent member in 2005). There are fine arguments on both sides of an issue like this -- messing with a bona fide rock classic by recording a sequel -- all of them are basically irrelevant once the project has been realized; but in this case, the debate will rage regardless. First there's the story: It picks up with junkie hitman Nikki, recently released from prison, haunted constantly by the death and memory of his lover, Mary, a former teenage prostitute turned nun, and this shadowy presence of Dr. X, Nikki's employer. The story of Operation: Mindcrime ended with "Who Killed Mary?" The story picks up with the identity of the killer revealed and Nikki's obsession with revenge on Operation: Mindcrime II. Cool eh? Maybe, maybe not; it depends on your point of view. In any case the most startling thing about II is its sound: pure 1980s heavy metal. The band went back to exploring the kinds of technology used on the first segment and basically revisited it, retuned the guitars to A., and let it rip. Shockingly, it doesn't sound cheesy at all. In fact, it's so balls-out crunchy and stacked -- especially the way those duplicate lead guitars sound on "The Hands" -- it sort of feels as if the records were recorded back to back; the intent and objective here has definitely been achieved. The argument is why you would want to create a second chapter of something and have it sound so much like the first. Okay, there's the music and the story. Tate and company are to be credited here; the story is seamless, though it's 20 years later. Tate looks at the current political and social landscape and can only say that "everything moves faster now/living at the speed of light," other than that, it's the same -- which is why a sequel was predicated in the first place. The band were still under the first Bush regime when the original was released. And despite eight years of Clinton, they find themselves under a Bush regime once more -- a regime perhaps more Draconian and certainly far more secretive than its predecessors. In any case, the historical reality reflects the aesthetic one for the purposes of Tate and company.

    There are some new factors on II: Michael Kamen is not on-board as the string arranger this time out; Ashif Hakik is. This set's producer is Jason Slater (who also produced hit records for Smash Mouth and Good Charlotte) who also recorded and mixed II with Hakik, Christina Wolfe, and Mitch Doran on-board for help. There are guests vocalists here, of course, including Pamela Moore, Miranda Tate, and the voice of Dr. X: Ronnie James Dio! Despite the sheer ambition and focus on the music and the story, here; despite the slamming, tough-minded metal and sheer rock dynamics at work, added to the enjoyment of listening to this all the way through as an album by Queensr˙che, the question must be asked: Does it measure up to the original? Not quite. However, the reasons for this have little to do with inspiration or execution; they have more to do with budget.. II is a fitting sequel musically -- and story-wise -- to as classic a work of popular art as you're likely to find, and it does wrap up the story tidily -- though some fans were content with the end left in question as it was originally. As a band, Queensr˙che rock harder now than they have in years; they are absolutely on fire here. Operation: Mindcrime II is a great step back in order to move things forward.
    http://www.allmusic.com/album/operat...e-mw0000652301
    and
    http://www.allmusic.com/album/operat...i-mw0000401007






    Regards,

    Duncan

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    O:MC1 – a musical monolith. even better: operation livecrime (the concert video).

    i was a huge QR-fan back in the day. < (copy/paste)

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    Member Digital_Man's Avatar
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    I only have and have heard the first one. I was not that impressed. I really don't see how it qualifies as prog metal more like metal with some keyboards on it but the song structures were very simple and I don't think it would pass as progressive metal these days. Not a bad album but nothing to get too excited over either. Then again I only heard it once(a few years ago) so maybe it's time to revisit.
    Do not suffer through the game of chance that plays....always doors to lock away your dreams (To Be Over)

  4. #4
    They didn't peak until Empire which is much more progressive!!!

  5. #5
    Funny, but I recently had a conversation on another board about the progressiveness of Queensryche, and someone had made a good point about the run from Rage To Order to Promised Land was a highly creative time for the band. Certainly the muse struck them hard with 4 albums that were very much their own thing. Personally, I think they were more small p progressive rather than big p.

    Unfortunately, after that time they seemed to lose their mojo, never really getting it back. Hear In The Now Frontier was a mess, Chris DeGarmo left the band and music alltogether, and while they could make decent music at times, none of it was ever as great as those four albums.

    As for Mindcrime, it was a real shot in the dark when it came out. Not only was releasing a concept album at that time unheard of, its popularity (probably after Empire came out) was pretty amazing. It really set the stage for a band like Dream Theater to become popular and kickstart the idea of progressive metal.

  6. #6
    QR were musically a generation apart from the other Seattle bands of that period. I enjoyed these though for a time.
    "Always ready with the ray of sunshine"

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    Member Plasmatopia's Avatar
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    I just listened to the first 20 minutes of the first one using the YouTube link above. I had this on CD for a short time back in about '92, so I had not heard it since then. I liked Empire, but I thought OMC was kind of boring. Not sure why I thought that as I actually enjoyed what I heard today.
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    Member Jay.Dee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digital_Man View Post
    I really don't see how it qualifies as prog metal more like metal with some keyboards on it but the song structures were very simple and I don't think it would pass as progressive metal these days.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheLongshot View Post
    As for Mindcrime, it was a real shot in the dark when it came out. Not only was releasing a concept album at that time unheard of, its popularity (probably after Empire came out) was pretty amazing. It really set the stage for a band like Dream Theater to become popular and kickstart the idea of progressive metal.
    I can vividly remember the the times at the break of the 80s and 90s when progressive metal was a not a genre but a nebulous group of bands, or rather albums, in which more inquisitive metalheads traced the germs of "prog" ambitions. The albums of Iron Maiden, Queensr˙che, Yngwie Malmsteen, King Diamond or WASP with any discernible epic scale or concept structure were meticulously dissected and discussed. Even Metallica's "And Justice For All" was considered at the time as a step towards the realm of serious music, at least among those who sought some "nobility" in the rather maligned heavy-metal genre.

    After the arrival of Dream Theater together with plethora of 90s ambitious metal subgenres, the "progressive" output of those earlier bands was gradually phased out of the prog domain, but before it happened nobody had questioned the tight bonds between Iron Maiden, Queensr˙che, Yngwie Malmsteen and Dream Theater. The success of the latter eclipsed its earlier siblings, but IMO certain 80s heavy bands could easily qualify for the potential proto-progressive-metal genre. Dream Theater and its peers owe a lot to the previous developments on the metal scene and featuring this album here is a rightful recognition of the direct roots of progressive metal.
    Last edited by Jay.Dee; 12-22-2014 at 04:25 PM.

  9. #9
    When it came out...and to this day...I believe OMC 1 is a full-on masterpiece. "I don't Believe in Love" has to be one of my all-time favorite tunes.

    For all of my gushing about OMC 1, I have never heard a NOTE of OMC 2...not sure if 2 will heighten my love for OMC 1 or debase it.

    As far as a concept story-line, I think it ranks up there very well. In fact, I think OMC 1 could be a movie.

  10. #10
    Member Digital_Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay.Dee View Post
    I can vividly remember the the times at the break of the 80s and 90s when progressive metal was a not a genre but a nebulous group of bands, or rather albums, in which more inquisitive metalheads traced the germs of "prog" ambitions. The albums of Iron Maiden, Queensr˙che, Yngwie Malmsteen, King Diamond or WASP with any discernible epic scale or concept structure were meticulously dissected and discussed. Even Metallica's "And Justice For All" was considered at the time as a step towards the realm of serious music, at least among those who sought some "nobility" in the rather maligned heavy-metal genre.

    After the arrival of Dream Theater together with plethora of 90s ambitious metal subgenres, the "progressive" output of those earlier bands was gradually phased out of the prog domain, but before it happened nobody had questioned the tight bonds between Iron Maiden, Queensr˙che, Yngwie Malmsteen and Dream Theater. The success of the latter eclipsed its earlier siblings, but IMO certain 80s heavy bands could easily qualify for the potential proto-progressive-metal genre. Dream Theater and its peers owe a lot to the previous developments on the metal scene and featuring this album here is a rightful recognition of the direct roots of progressive metal.
    You are right. Prog metal was a collective group of bands in the 80's and not really a full blown solidified genre until the 90's(kind of like heavy metal in the seventies). Apparently the first full blown prog metal album(according to many) was the debut by a band called Watchtower(although some might say something by Fates Warning). The genre didn't really gel and become commercially viable until DT's "images and words" though(yes this is arguable like anything). I too liked Empire even though it was more commercial sounding and gave them their big hit(silent lucidity)but maybe that's partly because it was the first thing I heard or owned by them. I haven't heard it in years though.
    Do not suffer through the game of chance that plays....always doors to lock away your dreams (To Be Over)

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    Mindcrime I is a masterpiece IMO. As to how progressive (or not) it is, I think you had to be there, and into it when it came out. There were really very few bands doing this type of music, especially a full concept album, at the time. Savatage, Iron Maiden, Fates Warning and maybe a few others were about it. I still remember seeing Queensryche open for AC / DC on the “Rage” tour and they were stunning completely blowing me away. Then on the “Empire” tour when they headlined and did this entire album all the way through was just incredible. The band at the peak of their powers. The album was so influential on a lot of the music that came after it as well. Almost every modern progressive metal band out there these days cites it as an influence.

    Mindcrime II is not nearly as good, but it does have its moments. It was by far the best album the band had done in years when it came out. I don’t think it is close to the level of the first one, but I still think it is a solid album with some really great tracks on it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Supersonic Scientist View Post
    When it came out...and to this day...I believe OMC 1 is a full-on masterpiece. "I don't Believe in Love" has to be one of my all-time favorite tunes.

    .
    I had just come out of a 4 year relationship when this album came out. "I Don't Beleive In Love" was my theme song for a while. Still a great tune to this day.

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    1 was amazing 2 was just ok it didn't grab me anywhere as much, nowhere near as consistent should have been called something else.

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    Member Jay.Dee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveSly View Post
    There were really very few bands doing this type of music, especially a full concept album, at the time. Savatage, Iron Maiden, Fates Warning and maybe a few others were about it.
    Actually I learnt about Fates Warning through Dream Theater, even though the band had been already active for almost a decade.

    A band I had definitely known well before progressive metal became an established genre was Voivod, which together with Queensr˙che were the most cherished ones among fellow metalheads with a progressive "deviation".
    Last edited by Jay.Dee; 12-24-2014 at 07:14 AM.

  15. #15
    I didn't like II. First of all the band wasn't on it. Geoff Tate blocked all input from the band and recorded almost all of it using studio musicians. And Tata has very few good songs in him. (As evidenced by all latter QR albums). The production was horrendous. Why oh why did he try to push an indie sound down the throat of a sequel to one of metals most important albums. Just the fact that he put almost all guitars in the middle of the soundscape instead of to each side so that the music could breathe. The only track i think sounded anything like the QR i like was Re-arrange You.
    And in the end, the love you take, is equal to the love you make.

  16. #16
    I listened to this for almost a year. Nothing else. I told myself after about six months to take it out. I couldn't.

    Growing up in the '80's as a metalhead with prog tendencies but didn't know that prog itself actually existed Mindcrime was the bees knees. Had first row seats for the Empire show. Amazing memories of that one.

    I wouldn't hear DT for another year or so and really didn't find much interesting about most hard rock/heavy metal bands even though my formative years were listening to Purple, Maiden, etc, right? So, being a guy who leans towards heavier but somewhat melodic music with that prog bent(maybe even a concept piece or album) there was QR and Fates and few others. I remember at a friends house listening to basically a transistor radio, Z Rock, and they had a interview with the Fates guys about No Exit and played The Ivory Gate Of Dreams. In that same show they were talking about a album from QR titled something weird not yet released and I can't forget how stoked I was. A hard rock version of The Wall, how frikkin' cool?

    That album was so influential to me, that music could rock and be mental. I'll have to pull out the ad I have for Mindcrime, it's got some great quotes. "The best in Mental Metal" and such. There was stuff going on that night around me but I was transfixed to that radio listening like the girl in Triumph's Magic Power.

    I guess one had to be there. For me, I didn't really know what I was wanting to hear but Mindcrime was it. Period. End of line. At the time, I was just starting to play in my first "band" and trying to write songs. It wasn't until later I realized I was trying to be Dream Theater and I'd never heard of them. Warning, RFO and O:M helped lead me to this path where I'm here on PE trying to understand Gentle Giant and such.

    QR, not unlike Rush with COS/2112, had to go backwards somewhat, experiment, then come up with a masterpiece. Rage, IMO, was industrial rock before there was industrial rock(as far as I knew, at least) and was doing prog-metal from day one. I'd hazard to say that The Warning was the first of the NWOPHM after the '70's. Once the '80's hit anyone who remotely resembled prog-metal suddenly wasn't (not unlike later with Metallica's ...and Justice For All/Black Album) and a new breed came in and took over.

    O:M may not be prog but it deserves it's day on PE. Oh, O:M2 sucks gonads and everyone knows Mary killed herself.
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    Member Plasmatopia's Avatar
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    Interesting to hear how this album was so influential for some. The drummer in my band raves about this album (the original). For me it was probably a matter of bad timing (in terms of other things that were going on at the time). Also this was one of the CDs I left at my ex-girlfriend's house when we broke up, lol.
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  18. #18
    The original is my third favorite album of all time. QR (along with Rush, Floyd, Kansas and several other groups) were very much a 'gateway' band for me into the glorious world of prog. They, to my ears, anyway, were progressive at the time (if not necessarily upper case Prog). As has been stated on PE in more than a few threads, the band were never the same after Chris DeGarmo left (in' 93/4 iirc). That being said, their output from '83-'93 has, to this day, solidified their status as one of my all-time favorite groups.
    'The smell of strange colours are heard everywhere'- Threshold

  19. #19
    From what I remember (haven't played either one in years), I was generally ok with OM2 on purely musical merits. I like the hooks/melodies and considered it a mostly solid effort, nothing monumental like Empire or Promised Land but far and away better than anything they'd done in between. It does noticeably slump toward the end. I think both installments have a few individual gems that can also stand alone outside the concept, but hit their low points when the songs get too story-focused and/or too... didactic, if that's the right word.

    Theme- and lyric-wise? A bit more iffy. Sequels of anything besides books are almost always a bad idea. The revenge/redemption theme was pretty smart, but it never felt like the result lived up to the potential. It was great to have a duet with Mr. X and they couldn't have chosen a more perfect singer for the part. The idea of including Dead Mary was a bit weirder, especially since it was a much bigger role than Live Mary had, but I love Pamela Moore's voice enough to go with it.

    Side note. I'd always thought Mary killed herself, but I figured it was on her own because she was overcome by doubt or hopelessness or something. Maybe I'm dense, but after a bunch of listens and reads through the booklet I still had no clue where we were supposed to find the answer. It was never clear to me until the Mindcrime at the Moore DVD spelled it out.

  20. #20
    As an aside, anyone who wants to read about the history of Progressive Metal should pick up Jeff Wagner's "Mean Deviation". It is a great resource.

    http://www.amazon.com/Mean-Deviation.../dp/0979616336

  21. #21
    Member dropforge's Avatar
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    The reputation of O:M is obvious enough. Between that and the next album, Empire, it was the story of a band that suddenly rose so high, so fast, nobody could have predicted the unbreakable plunge they would be in the midst of just a few short years later.

    O:M2 is merely the last trickle of runoff from the dried creative wellspring of Tate, who's very good at making crap that echoes his band's better days.

  22. #22
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    O:M is one of my favorite albums of all time, period. It's one of those records in which everything comes together as a whole: the concept, the production, the performances, the lyrics. For all the crap that he gets, Tate is just killing it on this record. The arrangements are like a clinic in being interesting while always serving the song, and the drumming...dear God, the drumming...so musical...

    Although it doesn't hold a candle to its predecessor, O:M II is the best late-period Queensryche. I don't listen to it that often, but I'm glad that I have it in the collection.

    NP: Berlioz Symphonie Fantastique

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    Operation: Mindcrime is my favorite album of all time. such a strong concept and story set to a progressive metal soundtrack. I Don't Believe In Love is the ultimate anti-love song. Spreading The Disease calling out on politicians & evangelists for their exploits of innocence. Revolution Calling & Breaking The Silence rocking the church walls down. and the haunting and realistic Eyes Of A Stranger rocking to the end. i love this album!!!!!!

    the sequel........sucks. it was made for all the wrong reasons.

  24. #24
    Mindcrime is a masterpiece and belongs on the list of great concept albums. In 1988 this was all I listened to. Mindcrime 2 has its moments but pales in comparison. It was awesome live though.

  25. #25
    Moderator Duncan Glenday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FKYES View Post
    Mindcrime is a masterpiece and belongs on the list of great concept albums.
    Quote Originally Posted by BravadoNJ View Post
    Operation: Mindcrime is my favorite album of all time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wounded Land View Post
    O:M is one of my favorite albums of all time, period.
    Quote Originally Posted by progeezer's ghost View Post
    The original is my third favorite album of all time.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheLoony View Post
    I listened to this for almost a year. Nothing else.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorp View Post
    1 was amazing 2 was just ok it didn't grab me anywhere as much, nowhere near as consistent should have been called something else.
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveSly View Post
    Mindcrime I is a masterpiece IMO.
    Quote Originally Posted by Supersonic Scientist View Post
    ...I believe OMC 1 is a full-on masterpiece.
    Quote Originally Posted by iguana View Post
    O:MC1 – a musical monolith.
    Maybe it's me ... but I've been spinning this since I posted it as a Featured CD, and couldn't wait for it to end.

    That isn't a criticism. I respect the album's significance, and recognize that it's considered to be one of the early greats. I guess I might need to spend a bit more time with it.
    Regards,

    Duncan

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