Got it.Originally Posted by Dave (in MA)
Got it.
your heroes were Pop-ular on the radio back in the mid 70s... Prog Pop
this thread is ridiculous... I'm out
Why is it whenever someone mentions an artist that was clearly progressive (yet not the Symph weenie definition of Prog) do certain people feel compelled to snort "thats not Prog" like a whiny 5th grader?
Well, I think that says more about the state of airplay than it does about music itself. There was a time, as many old farts like myself on this board will attest, when highly creative and unusual musical acts were embraced by the mainstream and by radio stations. Not all acts... I don't think Zappa ever got very much airplay, and the period didn't last all that long, maybe 10-15 years. Someone else said that the term "progressive rock" didn't exist until the 80's; I would have put it a little earlier than that, but it's true that the term wasn't used during the early 1970's because it wasn't required; it was just considered music. You might hear Yes or Pink Floyd played on radio, and it might well have been preceded by Engelbert Humperdinck and followed by Herman's Hermits. That's no longer the case, at least not here.
So my answer is: Prog CAN be pop, i.e. it can be popular, but it doesn't happen very often these days. Still, there is a very good counter-example riding high on the charts at the moment. it's called The Endless River.
I dunno why I keep reading this thread but...
he said the term "Prog" didn't exist until the 80s, not the term progressive rock
otherwise, your post is spot on
Why is it whenever someone mentions an artist that was clearly progressive (yet not the Symph weenie definition of Prog) do certain people feel compelled to snort "thats not Prog" like a whiny 5th grader?
When I think of "prog-pop," generally, I think of arena rock with a prog heritage. IOW:
* YesWest
* Motown Genesis
* Asia
* Pink Floyd's The Wall
* Mid-career Kansas
* Rush, 1980s
* ELO
* Styx
* Foreigner
That's my interpretation. YMMV...
Flying Colors comes to my mind when I hear the term 'prog-pop'.
I disagree with the OP. Prog in my view is a pretty elastic term. I used to not consider things like the Moody Blues or Ambrosia or Alan Parson's Project prog but prog is a pretty big umbrella and I think there is room for lots of subgenres including prog pop, prog metal, rio, fusion, electronic, etc.
I was actually thinking about this the other day. I was wondering if something could be song oriented(verse chorus typical song structure)and still be considered prog. The answer I eventually came up with is yes it can. Even if you want to call it art rock or prog pop it still can fall under the big prog umbrella and have it's own subgenre. I know many will disagree with me(including my old self)but that's ok. I know it scares a lot of people to have Styx in the same genre as Henry Cow. I can imagine the nightmares these people will have. If it's not overly complex, have a zillion time changes and only a few vocals then it can't possibly be prog or prog related. Hogwash I say.
Do not suffer through the game of chance that plays....always doors to lock away your dreams (To Be Over)
Not so sure about Foreigner but if you have them you might as well add Boston. Also I would possibly include The Police, Supertramp, City Boy, Ambrosia, Crack the Sky and maybe a few others. I think prog pop could be more or less synonymous or at least very similar to art rock.
Do not suffer through the game of chance that plays....always doors to lock away your dreams (To Be Over)
Prog is just an abbreviation for Progressive Rock.
I think there is prog pop. If not, what is Toy Matinee, or Bourgeois Tagg? Or Asia? None of those are flat out prog.
Don't let the door hit ya...
WANTED: Sig-worthy quote.
The letters P, R, O, and G didn't exist until the 80's.
When will prog have been what it is about to become?
From what I understand "prog" or at least "prog rock" was first used in a somewhat pejorative sense by punk rockers in the late seventies.
Do not suffer through the game of chance that plays....always doors to lock away your dreams (To Be Over)
If a song is a hit, it's a popular song. What's the problem?
ah, another personal vendetta jab... you're like clockwork
Why is it whenever someone mentions an artist that was clearly progressive (yet not the Symph weenie definition of Prog) do certain people feel compelled to snort "thats not Prog" like a whiny 5th grader?
Paranoid much?
Do not suffer through the game of chance that plays....always doors to lock away your dreams (To Be Over)
you obviously have not seen the things he has posted in regard to me since 1999
ya...that's 16 years of his personal vendetta and it doesn't appear to be going away
Why is it whenever someone mentions an artist that was clearly progressive (yet not the Symph weenie definition of Prog) do certain people feel compelled to snort "thats not Prog" like a whiny 5th grader?
No you are right. I don't keep tabs on you guys. I suppose you could send him a pm. Not sure what else to say other than don't worry about it. I will say that you sometimes seem to post things that suggest you are looking for attention. Don't do that and you won't draw attention to yourself. I used to do it too but I got over it. If you act mature people will treat you that way and vice versa.you obviously have not seen the things he has posted in regard to me since 1999
ya...that's 16 years of his personal vendetta and it doesn't appear to be going away
Do not suffer through the game of chance that plays....always doors to lock away your dreams (To Be Over)
one can hope...
but what can one do when there is a relentless opposition to one's opinions...
for 16 years!
you do have a point in that I really should ignore him and not allow him to provoke me
that *would* be taking the high road and I shall strive to do better
Why is it whenever someone mentions an artist that was clearly progressive (yet not the Symph weenie definition of Prog) do certain people feel compelled to snort "thats not Prog" like a whiny 5th grader?
I win the thread.
I'm holding out for the Wilson-mixed 5.1 super-duper walletbuster special anniversary extra adjectives edition.
that one remains a very Pop-ular song
as do Karn Evil 9 and Roundabout on classic Pop/Rock radio
Why is it whenever someone mentions an artist that was clearly progressive (yet not the Symph weenie definition of Prog) do certain people feel compelled to snort "thats not Prog" like a whiny 5th grader?
Thinking back, I'm sure it was used in around 1975 or so in a non-pejorative sense by music lovers, normally in unshortened form, "progressive rock". It was to let someone know that you listened to popular music but that you preferred listening to Pink Floyd, Genesis or Focus than to Grand Funk Railroad, Sweet or Tony Orlando and Dawn.
Yeah. I kinda know that. But you see, the terms progressive rock and "Prog" have existed as two somehow disparate entities since the latter appeared in casual use from the early 80s on. The initial term "progressive rock" denoted rock music which was exactly that. The term "Prog" did and does nothing of the sort. 90% of the music usually discussed here at PE squarely fits the latter only. Which is fine, I suppose. But you still shouldn't mix them up. The remaining 10% might fit the first term or both, and they make everything worthwhile.
Last edited by Scrotum Scissor; 12-04-2014 at 03:34 AM.
"Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
"[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM
prog is a four-letter word.
I agree 100%.
Furthermore, Prog as an identifiable musical style DOES NOT EXIST, I've been saying that for decades.
So proggers have to prefix the word prog to music from other genres that they like. Prog-metal doesn't exist either, it is metal. And it is doing what metal (more so than many genres) has always done i.e. being experimental & pushing the boundaries.
Prog-pop is another case of proggers liking some popular chart, radio or TV music but being unable to accept that is has bugger all to with prog, that it is simply pop music that they like.
Prog is just a prefix for any experimental music that goes beyone the pop music of the day - QED prog & pop are, as you say, mutually exclusive terms.
Prog as a music style DOES NOT EXIST! How can it, when it can include Mike Oldfield alongside Jethro Tull alongside Genesis - musically they have bugger all in common! QED, prog isn't a musical style.
At best, prog rock was an attitude of the day and a grouping of bands of the day who shared an attitude perhadps part of that attitude was "we are not mainstream, we are progressive" Fair enough, an adjective to describe the bands and band members.
BUT not being something doesn't create something new e.g. just because I'm not right wing doesn't automatically make me left wing.
The state of not being mainstream and being considered as progressive did not in itself create an identifiable musical style, like for example, blues, soul, metal, folk, jazz.
Last edited by PeterG; 12-04-2014 at 09:25 AM.
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