Forgotten 1990s prog

[JKL2000]

Indisciplined Lucy - About the Black Eyed Girl

[Sputnik]

I agree to a certain extent, the problem being those fat, affective "Gabriel"-vocals (in bad English) with ITdR. I really wish they'd thought otherwise - and at least let the poor guy sing in his native tongue.

I'd have preferred Italian vocals as well, though I've come to appreciate what ITdR's vocalist does. Their approach to the vocal melodies, however, is quite different from the Flower Beards, not as dependent on the chords, and not reliant on the big chorus. Far more interesting to my ears.

I don't hear the Flower Beards style here, either, expect perhaps in the vocals. There is little of the big-guitar AOR sound so central to those groups, more like Banco's et al incorporating parts of ELP's keyboard style, only updated to 1990s sonic standards (which I understand alienated some listeners, especially the digital drums). I don't think it's totally successful, but yes, certainly it goes deeper into the 70s than many of the groups at the time.

I agree with all this, except... digital drums? Perhaps I've been fooled, but it sounds like a drummer playing a real kit to me. What makes you think they're digital? And if they are, what makes you think this was an issue for people? I've never seen this mentioned with regard to ITdR.

Bill

[thedunno]

I liked to Norwegian band Thule a lot. They've released 5 albums (first one in 1987, last one in 2005) that contained progrock as dark as the polar night. No real surprise considering the came from Honningsvåg, which is very close to the Nordkap.

[Rarebird]

I liked to Norwegian band Thule a lot. They've released 5 albums (first on in 1987, last one in 2005) that contained progrock as dark as the polar night. No real surprise considering the came from Honningsvåg, which is very close to the Nordkap.

Honningsvåg is on the isle Mägeröya and the Nordkap is on the other side of the isle, so indeed very close. Dark winters, but lots of light in the summer, if the weather is good.

[Scrotum Scissor]

I liked to Norwegian band Thule a lot. They've released 5 albums (first one in 1987, last one in 2005) that contained progrock as dark as the polar night. No real surprise considering the came from Honningsvåg, which is very close to the Nordkap.

When the biggest Norwegian weekly paper (Morgenbladet) were to have 100 musicians and "music-workers" vote their top-10 of all time records from here, Thule's Natt came in at ca. the 50th spot. And that's an album not even listed in national rock encyclopedias or ever mentioned by *anyone* - apparently. Meaning: you are considered very well versed - but equally bright and lucky - to know of Thule. One of the most unique bands ever from around these parts. Graks is great as well.

[Scrotum Scissor]

Their approach to the vocal melodies, however, is quite different from the Flower Beards, not as dependent on the chords, and not reliant on the big chorus. Far more interesting to my ears.

Doesn't take too much effort to be more interesting than those ones, though.

I remember listening a lot to the ITdR album, but I wqas always more of an Ezra Winston-kinda guy in that respect. Even though they sang in English.

[thedunno]

When the biggest Norwegian weekly paper (Morgenbladet) were to have 100 musicians and "music-workers" vote their top-10 of all time records from here, Thule's Natt came in at ca. the 50th spot. And that's an album not even listed in national rock encyclopedias or ever mentioned by *anyone* - apparently. Meaning: you are considered very well versed - but equally bright and lucky - to know of Thule. One of the most unique bands ever from around these parts. Graks is great as well.

Yup, Natt is probably their best and can be considered a 'forgotten gem'. I like everything they did. Even the album Frostbrent, which was considered a failure when it came out, contains some great songs. The last one 'Liquid' is pretty good too.

[Kai]

I agree with all this, except... digital drums? Perhaps I've been fooled, but it sounds like a drummer playing a real kit to me. What makes you think they're digital? And if they are, what makes you think this was an issue for people? I've never seen this mentioned with regard to ITdR.

I have a very good reason for making this claim: my head is like a sieve and I'm talking out of my arse. I was quite sure the drummer was using samples or electronic timbres for his snare and toms, but I must have got that mixed up with some other 1990s album, as that's not the case (three years since I've last heard the album). I do remember Mike Taylor of the GEPR complaining about the drumming being too regular, but that wasn't a real issue with him. So no, I'm not going to make any more guesses as to why people liked or didn't like this album. I like it, I'm just not ecstatic about it.

[the ferret]

Cairo was a San Francisco band that recorded 3 good albums between 1994 and 2001 in a 70's retro style.

I recently heard Cairo for the first time when I found a copy of their debut record. It's a rather enjoyable listen. Unfortunately, according to Wikipedia, it seems that their singer Brett Douglas passed away in 2011. Anybody know if the other members of the band are active in any way, shape or form?

[Yves]

A couple of bands from Québec:

Pangée - Hymnemonde

Dagmahr- I preferred As Far As We Get to My Magnificent Instability, though the former was released in 2001 IIRC.

[Scrotum Scissor]

A couple of bands from Québec:

Pangée - Hymnemonde

Dagmahr- I preferred As Far As We Get to My Magnificent Instability, though the former was released in 2001 IIRC.

Both good. Dägmahr might appeal to folks who like Discipline etc. Quite VdGG-influenced.

Another one at that was German band Versus X. They had at least a couple of pretty decent releases, although the vocals were a bit weak.

[Staun]

Forgotten prog? Interesting. These are the kinds of bands that make prog. They should have a big chair at the table. We all hear the weight of the big prog bands be it from the '70's, '80's or '90's. It's these type of one album or two album bands under all that weight that makes prog worth the effort for me. I would love to hear this "forgotten prog", over let's say, Transatlantic or Steve Wilson. Been through that and I get the idea. And so it is with alot of other named prog bands. This isn't pop-in-a-box type of music. Prog is very challenging and it can be very hard to just cough up one album. I will be most happy in seeking out these "forgotten" bands and albums. Maybe it's true. What's old is new again?

[Staun]

Good thread!

[Sputnik]

Doesn't take too much effort to be more interesting than those ones, though.

I have a very good reason for making this claim: my head is like a sieve and I'm talking out of my arse. I was quite sure the drummer was using samples or electronic timbres for his snare and toms, but I must have got that mixed up with some other 1990s album, as that's not the case (three years since I've last heard the album). I do remember Mike Taylor of the GEPR complaining about the drumming being too regular, but that wasn't a real issue with him. So no, I'm not going to make any more guesses as to why people liked or didn't like this album. I like it, I'm just not ecstatic about it.

Good! I'm glad my hearing isn't that damaged!

I can totally understand not being ecstatic about this album. Lot's of people aren't ecstatic about ELP either, who I love. For me, this one is the bees knees, embodying so many of the elements I like best about 70s Prog, and to me, not following the neo/melodic path and bringing something fresh to the Symph type sound. But I completely understand others hear it differently. If they didn't, ITdR wouldn't be in a "forgotten Prog" thread, would they?

Forgotten prog? Interesting. These are the kinds of bands that make prog. They should have a big chair at the table. We all hear the weight of the big prog bands be it from the '70's, '80's or '90's. It's these type of one album or two album bands under all that weight that makes prog worth the effort for me. I would love to hear this "forgotten prog", over let's say, Transatlantic or Steve Wilson. Been through that and I get the idea. And so it is with alot of other named prog bands. This isn't pop-in-a-box type of music. Prog is very challenging and it can be very hard to just cough up one album. I will be most happy in seeking out these "forgotten" bands and albums. Maybe it's true. What's old is new again?

I agree with this totally. When I was getting back into Prog back in the 90s these were the bands that excited me, and I was disappointed the extent to which the most popular bands exhibited so many "AOR/Stadium rock" elements, or sounded only superficially "Proggy" without having the substance. It's true, many of these forgotten 90s bands relied on technology to render drums and sometimes lacked in the production department. But to me they so totally made up for it it their compositions and sense of adventure and excitement, playing and composing at the edge of their abilities rather than playing it safe. It's good to have a thread to remind folks that these forgotten gems are out there, though many are probably hard to find at this point.

Bill

[JKL2000]

Forgotten prog? Interesting. These are the kinds of bands that make prog. They should have a big chair at the table. We all hear the weight of the big prog bands be it from the '70's, '80's or '90's. It's these type of one album or two album bands under all that weight that makes prog worth the effort for me. I would love to hear this "forgotten prog", over let's say, Transatlantic or Steve Wilson. Been through that and I get the idea. And so it is with alot of other named prog bands. This isn't pop-in-a-box type of music. Prog is very challenging and it can be very hard to just cough up one album. I will be most happy in seeking out these "forgotten" bands and albums. Maybe it's true. What's old is new again?

These kinds of releases are still the bulk of my collection.

[emperorken]

Another one at that was German band Versus X. They had at least a couple of pretty decent releases, although the vocals were a bit weak.

Arne Schafer's other project, "Apogee", also contains some very good music. But it also suffers from his same weak vocals.

[Scrotum Scissor]

I was disappointed the extent to which the most popular bands exhibited so many "AOR/Stadium rock" elements, or sounded only superficially "Proggy" without having the substance. It's true, many of these forgotten 90s bands relied on technology to render drums and sometimes lacked in the production department. But to me they so totally made up for it it their compositions and sense of adventure and excitement, playing and composing at the edge of their abilities rather than playing it safe.

Absolutely. You mentioned Pye Fyte, right? Now there's a release completely out of the blue at the time, with a most DIY-feel to it yet making all the right musical moves. Adventure and excitement, yes - but also immense dedication and enthusiasm at what they were attempting to accomplish artistically. I could name a lot of such artists, and they would all have the one thing in common that they apparently lack that overall shallow aura of "prog professionalism" which seems to be warranted for someone to be allowed in (whatever) to the Grand Hall of OutsideIn and Mog Pragazine.

[Scrotum Scissor]

Arne Schafer's other project, "Apogee", also contains some very good music. But it also suffers from his same weak vocals.

The lyrics weren't always too bad, but he should've had someone else sing them. Versus X were especially noted for lots of fabulous grand piano; it was more or less their main keyboard instrument.

[Dusty Chalk]

Has anyone mentioned Dark Aether Project yet? 3 albums, main guy plays a stick, with a variety of instrumentals and various vocalists (I want to say Echolyn's Ray Weston provided vocals for them at one point). Superb.

Also Sunday All Over the World -- basically, King Crimson + Toyah on vocals. In fact, that would be a good two-fer...

[Sputnik]

Arne Schafer's other project, "Apogee", also contains some very good music. But it also suffers from his same weak vocals.

I also had a couple of Versus X albums, but wound up ditching them. Weak vocals were probably the major reason. I never owned Apogee, but dismissed them likely for the same reasons.

Absolutely. You mentioned Pye Fyte, right? Now there's a release completely out of the blue at the time, with a most DIY-feel to it yet making all the right musical moves. Adventure and excitement, yes - but also immense dedication and enthusiasm at what they were attempting to accomplish artistically. I could name a lot of such artists, and they would all have the one thing in common that they apparently lack that overall shallow aura of "prog professionalism" which seems to be warranted for someone to be allowed in (whatever) to the Grand Hall of OutsideIn and Mog Pragazine.

John and Mark were nothing if not enthusiastic and dedicated. They had to assemble a variety of players around them to accomplish the recording, many of whom were not particularly into Prog. They really went through hell and a fair amount of expense to make this record. It was recorded to tape, and they bought a Mellotron to use for the album, that they had nothing but trouble moving in and out of the studio. They truly did it for their love and obsession with this kind of music. I think one of the big draws for them was the sense that finally one did not have to be a "professional" to be able to release music, and back then actually have a reasonable chance of recouping much of the cost to make it (which Pye Fyte did easily - the second pressing is sold out, I have the last few in my possession).

I wish I'd known them then, I'd have loved to have contributed to this band.

Bill

[BrianG]

Sinkadus is one that I don't hear much about anymore, I always liked their two albums...

Agree with you on Sinkadus. Some of their members put out "Lost Kites " recently - many references back to the original Sinkadus sound.

The 90's and the internet were a huge awakening for me. Imagine - there were other, relatively normal, people who actually liked the same music I did. I absorbed GEPR and the catalogues of some online prog shops. Some early finds were:
Ezra Winston's "Ancient Afternoons" had such a great mood to it. I always have to listen through to the end.
Nuovo Era's "Dopo L'infinito" was the only release I heard of theirs, but the reviews point to better albums that followed.
I got pulled under the spell of Sagrado Coracao da Terra early on, until he started writing music for Latin soap operas. The later stuff would make Yanni yawn.
I'm also a big fan of Townscream, and I have tried to follow Csaba Vedres' music ever since. He now he writes solely classical, he still has that knack for interesting and lyrical music.

[Sputnik]

Agree with you on Sinkadus. Some of their members put out "Lost Kites " recently - many references back to the original Sinkadus sound.

Interesting, hadn't heard about that one. I'll check it out.

Nuovo Era's [/B]"Dopo L'infinito" was the only release I heard of theirs, but the reviews point to better albums that followed.

To me, Dopo L'Infinito is their best. Their first one, L'Ultimo Viaggio, is fun but I don't think the playing is as good as on Dopo. So pretty good tunes, though. Io e Il Tempo moves in more of a "Neo Prog" direction to me. It's not bad, but it isn't as flashy or exciting to me as the first two. Il Passo del Soldato from 1995 is a bit of a return to form musically, but lacks the original guitarist and singer, so it has a different vibe. Keys are far more present. I think of all the others besides Dopo, this one may be your best bet.

I'm hoping their new one in the works will be good (original guitarist/singer is apparently back in the fold).

I'm also a big fan of Townscream, and I have tried to follow Csaba Vedres' music ever since. He now he writes solely classical, he still has that knack for interesting and lyrical music.

Are there some by Vedres you'd recommend that you think would appeal to a Towscream fan?

Bill

[TheH]

A band that could have used some more albums where Galaad from the Swiss.

Boy, there still was some Neo Prog back in the 90s that I really liked. Not as blant and
slick as today.

Some of the guys still have a band (in a far more Pop area)


There might be a little hope for a new Ezra Winston (rumours, nothing I could confirm)

[Scrotum Scissor]

Dopo L'Infinito is their best. [...] Il Passo del Soldato from 1995 is a bit of a return to form musically, but lacks the original guitarist and singer, so it has a different vibe. Keys are far more present. I think of all the others besides Dopo, this one may be your best bet.

I concur completely! Dopo is up there with Ezra Winston's Ancient Afternoons and the first Eris Pluvia for the really good EARLY 90s Italian "symph". The Montefeltro album was also very nice, although slightly neo in spaces and not too strong vocally (despite being one of the earliest Italian 90s prog bands to employ their native tongue exclusively).

For some excellent melodic Italian "neo-symph" (i.e. mostly vintage gear but highly refined and accessible) from the 90s, I'd take Mad Crayon's Diamanti or Germinale's Il Suo Respiro, and a rather intense variety was offered by Lothlorien (Il Sale Sulla Coda) and the awesome Delusione Ottica by Jet Lag, which was admittedly a bit later on (2001, I believe).

[TheH]

I concur completely! Dopo is up there with Ezra Winston's Ancient Afternoons and the first Eris Pluvia for the really good EARLY 90s Italian "symph". The Montefeltro album was also very nice, although slightly neo in spaces and not too strong vocally (despite being one of the earliest Italian 90s prog bands to employ their native tongue exclusively).

For some excellent melodic Italian "neo-symph" (i.e. mostly vintage gear but highly refined and accessible) from the 90s, I'd take Mad Crayon's Diamanti or Germinale's Il Suo Respiro, and a rather intense variety was offered by Lothlorien (Il Sale Sulla Coda) and the awesome Delusione Ottica by Jet Lag, which was admittedly a bit later on (2001, I believe).

Easyly the best "symph" Albums from Italy in the 90s. I totally love the Eris Pluvia Album!

I slightley prefer Mad Crayon's later album (2009) Preda to Diamanti. They plan to record a
new album next year.