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Thread: New Steven Wilson CD: "Hand. Cannot. Erase." due in February

  1. #51
    Parrots Ripped My Flesh Dave (in MA)'s Avatar
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    I couldn't figure out a way to work Being-hit-on-the-head Lessons into it, and figured Abuse wouldn't be such a good idea.

  2. #52
    Moderator Sean's Avatar
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    Yves, I see very little, honestly. But my idea of hate and others obviously varies. Therein lies the rub.

    Dave, you made me laugh, so it wasn't all in vain.
    Last edited by Sean; 11-19-2014 at 05:02 PM.

  3. #53
    Member Gizmotron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean View Post
    And it's all kinda touchy too. One man's well worded but negative critique can be seen as simply a slam by the person on the receiving end. So drawing the line (no SW pun intended) is sometimes a bit hard. You look at it and think "that isn't bad, it's a well thought out retort, leave it be" and then you find some bleeding artist in the aisle talking about what a shithole of haters we are. One man's critique is another man's slam depending on the thickness of their skin. A fine line at times.... Free speech is bound to piss someone off, isn't it? Your work is put out there for the world to enjoy and discuss, and with it come some slings and arrows. You can't pick and choose when it comes down to that stuff, you have to roll with whatever comes. Some folks take them in stride and learn from the criticisms, others feel victimized. Hard to guess in advance how it will all shake out with some folks. I wish every artist we discussed here saw the positive worth we offer, but the nature of what we do here makes that uniformly pretty impossible since we give all reviews- good and bad. If we only gave good ones we'd just have a rep as being a bunch of pussies that like everything and totally worthless when it comes to objectivity. Damned if we do or don't.
    My desire not to further derail the Thread is balanced by the facts that:

    A) this is an important issue
    B) the Moderator's point of view is significant and if he takes time to explore the tangent then it is well worth a short detour.

    I am drawn to your sentence: "One man's well worded but negative critique can be seen as simply a slam by the person on the receiving end." I think if it is truly well-worded, even sensitive individuals can tell that it is just an opinion, not an attack. A review or bit of feedback that is simply a well-stated opinion stands out as such. As in, "I don't care for his vocal ability" or "I have a hard time with high-pitch vocals." But too many reviews or "opinions" are actually someone forcing their opinion on others. In that case they are saying that there is NO other opinion that can be tolerated. They are saying that no one else's opinion is valid; only their opinion is the truth. And they hide behind the concept of "opinion" when doing it. I think we all know some flagrant examples...Yes' Heaven and Earth, Rabin vs. Howe, Mr. Palmer's skills, Genesis (ANY Genesis topic) are some well known topics that almost always degenerate into bashing and forced opinions. If one reads through those (and other) Threads, I think it is very easy to see when people are playing fair, when they are trying to force opinions on others, and when there is outright trolling and baiting going on.

    It can be hard to put it into words. But it is a bit like the old adage about art or pornography, i.e., "I have a hard time describing it in general but I always know it when i see it."

    I often see thoughts and opinions on the Forum that are extremely different to my thoughts or opinions (loving something I dislike or hating something i love) BUT are clearly stated as opinions and thus, they don't make me feel angry or feel threatened or bullied. But there are many posts that are only slightly different than my opinions but they are stated in such a nasty, force-it-down-my-throat or I-won't-tolerate-any-other-opinions way that I just want to give up on the place.

    And it is not as simple as labeling people as "negative" or "positive" and dismissing them/marginalizing them because of that over-reaching judgement. That other Forum I mentioned has some particularly nasty people that love to say to mostly-positive people "you just don't want anything posted that isn't 'la-la everything is groovy.' Whether one is overly positive in outlook or is the blackest, most-negative and hard-to-please person, either type can force their opinion down someone's throat and deny others' right to free speech. And either personality type can play fair and produce thoughtful and revealing posts, even when they are stating an opinion or a review that is different than ours. >>>They key is in the delivery and the intent. Just play nicely. (For the record, my opinion of the vocal comment above isn't really that bad...I am talking about the overt stuff).

    Anyway...thanks for entertaining my thoughts...now, back to the regularly-scheduled program starring Steven Wilson.

  4. #54
    Moderator Sean's Avatar
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    Thanks for your thoughts. It's not easy offering a forum like this and make everyone happy. We are sort of like the press in that regard.

  5. #55
    Member Gizmotron's Avatar
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    I think most of us very much appreciate all of your efforts, Sean. Overall, there is a tremendous amount of excellent info here. I am fairly "well-read" as far as music goes but I have learned about lots of great artists here that I would not have discovered if not for PE. It is very much worth the effort!!

    Thanks for your hard work.

  6. #56
    Member Jerjo's Avatar
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    Autobuy.For.Me.

    Yeah, things get a little negative here. There are some who are guaranteed to have a negative opinion on anything. Chris Squire could form a band with Bruford, Fripp, Holdsworth, and John Battema, playing like they were young men and someone would still shit on it. We're people that get really passionate about the music we love and we are quite opinionated. I remember that review by Ken Walsh of his last Yes concert started a furor but jeez, Ken was a fan who wore his heart on his sleeve and he had some genuine concerns about a concert he attended. Artists need to have a thicker skin. As long as a reviewer isn't making a personal attack, distorting the facts about a work, or going after the artist's family, you gotta let it ride.
    I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down.'- Bob Newhart

  7. #57
    First and foremost, I personally can't wait for this album. The videos up on youtube are spectacular, and if they're any indication of what to follow this is going to be awesome. Someone asked who's on the album, every one but Theo Travis, who is on it sparingly because of the musical direction only apparently, is fully incorporated in the band.
    I love PT, but I continue to feel he's moved on, and wouldn't go back there unless he had something important to say with them. And I think he's got plenty to say in his solo career. He's no Roy Orbison, but Ive never had a problem with his voice. Its always fit to my ears anyway.
    I understand the position of Seans post. There are a few people who if you don't agree with their point of view they think its their right to kick your ass and get downright nasty. I try not to ay attention to them. There are threads I stay out of because I dislike a band or musician, and see no point of running through their balloon garden with a pin. At the same time, I see no problem in stating an opposing voice in a thread full of people in the majority of one position or another, if its done respectfully. In those cases i try to support my position by stating information that indicates I'm not there just to bash or derail the thread but to discuss along with the rest.
    Coming into this discussion board for me, was like walking into someones living room in the middle of a conversation of people that all knew each other, and they all looked at me with that look of who are you and why are you here?? Its very intimidating. There are a lot of very knowledgable folks on here. So, perhaps in all fairness to how people view our beloved discussion board, maybe theres a bit of an intimidation factor at play looking in from the outside. None the less, this is a passionate lot, and theres much to be learned here.
    Cheers!

  8. #58
    Member Gizmotron's Avatar
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    An elegant and thoughtful post there, Gpeccary!

    (And I laughed out loud when i saw your name...I can hear Frank Zappa singing that hilarious song even now!)

  9. #59
    ^^^ glad you got a giggle!

  10. #60
    Member Gizmotron's Avatar
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    My delight with Mr. Wilson is that he seems to be able to produce amazingly good (to me) material that seems to defy categorization. Each new album feels very different. In other words, he doesn't do the same old same old. Yet each new effort surpasses my already-high hopes. He doesn't seem to run out of ideas or passion. He has so many tricks up his sleeve. And so I agree that this will be an "auto buy" for me.

  11. #61
    Member since March 2004 mozo-pg's Avatar
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    Steve Wilson's voice. There, I said it.

    I totally enjoy everything about Steve's musical abilities and knowledge. Can't wait for this release.

  12. #62
    Member Plasmatopia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yves View Post
    I prefer he handles the vocals than hires some over-the-top Labrie-esque singer. Give me a vocal stylist over a technical singer any day.
    Oh come on - LaBrie would be awesome in SW's band, lol...

    I never thought for a moment there was anything not too good about SW's voice. That may be a testament to his songwriting abilities that he writes stuff where his voice just works. Those vocal moments really provide a nice foil to the busier stuff going on in his music. On the other hand I never thought "wow, what an amazing singer"...but that's hardly a requirement for good music, IMO.
    Last edited by Plasmatopia; 11-19-2014 at 09:07 PM.
    <sig out of order>

  13. #63
    Recently Resurrected zombywoof's Avatar
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    Argument Clinic - classic.

  14. #64
    chalkpie
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    I love that little fuckers voice.

  15. #65
    Recently Resurrected zombywoof's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chalkpie View Post
    I love that little fuckers voice.
    Yeah, me too. His rather understated approach is refreshing in a genre dominated by Gabriel impersonators!

  16. #66
    I preferred Wilson's voice with the beautiful harmonic accompaniment of Chris Maitland. There was some vocal magic there.
    "Young man says you are what you eat, eat well."
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    I don't auto-buy anything. I don't buy any music until I've heard it or heard some of it, or at the very least read lots of positive reviews from people whose reviews I trustas being indicative of my own taste.

    Steven Wilson being Steven wilson, l'll investigate and appraise a new Steven Wilson album before spending my time on a new release by, say, Rage Against the Machine, Michael Bolton or Miley Cyrus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxschrek View Post
    Boy, you aren't kidding there!
    Yes, I think I know the board you mean, but let's not name names.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean View Post
    And it's all kinda touchy too. One man's well worded but negative critique can be seen as simply a slam by the person on the receiving end. So drawing the line (no SW pun intended) is sometimes a bit hard. You look at it and think "that isn't bad, it's a well thought out retort, leave it be" and then you find some bleeding artist in the aisle talking about what a shithole of haters we are. One man's critique is another man's slam depending on the thickness of their skin. A fine line at times....
    I've come to the realisation, as others have before me, that "attack the post, not the poster" is a pretty good maxim to follow to keep things focused and civil. Every musical opinion posted here should be fair game for criticism. However, as soon as you say things like "you're a fanboy". or "all these haters here", it is no longer about the subject of the original post, it has become a fight between members, or between groups of members.

    Same also applies when responding to external music reviews from music journos and the like. One sees "oh what would that dickhead know, his opinions aren't worth reading". Never mind about that. Tell me what's wrong with this particular review. Pull the review itself to pieces if you must, as long as you give your reasons.

    Hitler liked Wagner. That doesn't necessarily mean that Wagner's music is bad.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by mozo-pg View Post
    Steve Wilson's voice. There, I said it.

    I totally enjoy everything about Steve's musical abilities and knowledge. Can't wait for this release.
    I don't think it's a dealbreaker, but he calls himself "Steven", not "Steve"!

    Somehow to me "Steven" suits him better. That extra letter changes completely the image conjured up in my mind by the name. "Steven" suggests to me someone who is fairly quiet, reserved, thinks a lot, knows a lot. "Steve" suggests someone who likes sports, likes having a drink with his mates. (Sorry to any Steve's here, I know the two are not mutually exclusive.)

    It also fits in nicely with the fact that two other members of Porcupine Tree also have first and last names that end with 'n'. I often wonder if Steven ever considered bringing in Elton John to replace Richard Barbieri, just to make things consistent.

  21. #71
    Recently Resurrected zombywoof's Avatar
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    By the way (buy the way?) ...

    Auto buy. And if he comes near me, I'm going to be there if I can.

  22. #72
    I'm surprised that no one has talked about track #8 -- a duet with Eric Johnson...

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob_32_116 View Post
    "attack the post, not the poster" is a pretty good maxim to follow to keep things focused and civil. Every musical opinion posted here should be fair game for criticism.
    Well said.

    neil

  24. #74
    Ordinary Idiot Superfly's Avatar
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    I don't have much left on my 'auto-buy' list, but this is going to be on it. I've recently watched the live clips from the Drive Home dvd over and over again...some really impressive work going on there, real stand out stuff. I'm hoping he keeps the same group around a while longer, there's so much potential there for great things. Do I miss PT? Not any more...not as long as he continues down this path.

    As for Wilson's singing, I've always loved it. There's a clarity to it that I find appealing and it fits the music he does quite well. Though, I do confess, I like Tim Bowness just a bit more.
    "The Bill of Rights says nothing about the freedom of hearing. This, of course, takes a lot of the fun out of the freedom of speech." - Pat Paulsen

    My Art- http://www.facebook.com/williamallenrenfro -My Life

  25. #75
    Member since March 2004 mozo-pg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob_32_116 View Post
    I don't think it's a dealbreaker, but he calls himself "Steven", not "Steve"!

    Somehow to me "Steven" suits him better. That extra letter changes completely the image conjured up in my mind by the name. "Steven" suggests to me someone who is fairly quiet, reserved, thinks a lot, knows a lot. "Steve" suggests someone who likes sports, likes having a drink with his mates. (Sorry to any Steve's here, I know the two are not mutually exclusive.)

    It also fits in nicely with the fact that two other members of Porcupine Tree also have first and last names that end with 'n'. I often wonder if Steven ever considered bringing in Elton John to replace Richard Barbieri, just to make things consistent.
    That's quite a bit of energy for a reply when I missed a single letter, "n". I'm now going to play some Pete Gabriel.

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