Will the success of the new Pink Floyd album have a knock on effect?

[Digital_Man]

Why not? A lot of older Pink Floyd fans will have bought this release. Why should it not rekindle an interest that they may have lost years ago.

It might but that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying this release won't suddenly turn tons of people onto prog by itself. As for Floyd fans I'm sure most die hard and long term fans will want it. My 84 year old uncle(who is a PF fan) wants it and yet I can't get him to check out Eloy or Camel. Many people are just stuck in their ways and want what is familiar to them. Pink Floyd is a name with lots of credibility and a long history. This could be an album full of pure noise or some other nonsense and many people would still want to hear it. It's like comfort food for their ears. Even if they don't know what they are going to get until they hear it they still assume they will like it because of who put it out.

[Toothyspook]

You gave me a massive smile here for the bit about your grandfather. But I do get your drift now.

[Scrotum Scissor]

My 84 year old uncle(who is a PF fan) wants it and yet I can't get him to check out Eloy or Camel. Many people are just stuck in their ways and want what is familiar to them.

I see another PoiL fanatic down the line there!

[Toothyspook]

You gave me a massive smile here for the bit about your grandfather. But I do get your drift now.

Apologies, I meant uncle

[jkelman]

I dunno about this. Flying pigs and building a wall between your band and its audience seems rather flamboyant to me.

Yes, but their shoes were more about the music and visuals and less about 'look at me' posturing. In fact, for the longest time (and perhaps even now) the band could walk the streets undetected and were quite intentionally anonymous.

Until post-WYWH (and I love Animaks, btw), and the power struggle that emerged with The Wall, I wonder how ,any people outside if music freaks even knew the names of everyone in the band?

[Toothyspook]

Yes, but their shoes were more about the music and visuals and less about 'look at me' posturing. In fact, for the longest time (and perhaps even now) the band could walk the streets undetected and were quite intentionally anonymous.

Until post-WYWH (and I love Animaks, btw), and the power struggle that emerged with The Wall, I wonder how ,any people outside if music freaks even knew the names of everyone in the band?

I remember those days. The band, apparently, were rarely interviewed and you are right about not knowing the individual band members names.

One of the times I queued for tickets to see them (does anyone still do that now) I noticed a paperback book about Pink Floyd as I entered the record shop selling the tickets. I still have that book and it specifically mentions the individual band members name thing.

[Digital_Man]

I see another PoiL fanatic down the line there!

PoiL?

[BobM]

"Prog Rock" was best in the 70s and the few bands that are recognized for it today...the music is just not as good or inspiring as those bands...just my opinion.

Sorry to say this (because I really don;t know how exposed you are to new "prog") but you really need to get deeper into the current prog rock scene. there are tons of absolutely great prog bands out there today, making little money but producing some incredible music. Sure, a lot of it is derived from the big 70's bands, but that doesn;lt make it any less progressive or good.

Head on over to www.progressivears.org and start browsing through the posts. Then find and try out some of the groups being talked about. I think you may be surprised at how vibrant a scene it still continues to be.

[Esoteric]

I am hearing some good bands out there, we ourselves choose to have quite a few bands with a 60s or 70s vibe, my other half is pretty fussy about quality musicianship , check out the trailers on our Schnauser, Tin Spirits, Fish on Friday or Nick Magnus or Lifesigns releases. I think any of these could have passed muster in that period. They may not be King Crimson but there is good quality writing and musicianship on all of them in my opinion and all quite different.

[Scrotum Scissor]

you really need to get deeper into the current prog rock scene. there are tons of absolutely great prog bands out there today, making little money but producing some incredible music. Sure, a lot of it is derived from the big 70's bands, but that doesn;lt make it any less progressive or good.

There's no such thing as a single "prog scene" out there; if anything, there are at least a couple of dozens of them. And I don't think the derivative acts make for the most interesting aspects of these scenes, to be honest. There's a grand difference between "artistic influence" and "wanting to sound like".

[jkelman]

Sorry to say this (because I really don;t know how exposed you are to new "prog") but you really need to get deeper into the current prog rock scene. there are tons of absolutely great prog bands out there today, making little money but producing some incredible music. Sure, a lot of it is derived from the big 70's bands, but that doesn;lt make it any less progressive or good.

Head on over to www.progressivears.org and start browsing through the posts. Then find and try out some of the groups being talked about. I think you may be surprised at how vibrant a scene it still continues to be.

I agree. Since starting on work towards this book project I've been introduced to a whack of very talented groups. I don't want to start listing as I don't want to omit anyone, but i would say the scene is very much alive and well, even if $$ ain't what it used to be

[soblivious]

A lot of current bands make better albums, but they do not have a similar publicity machine to bring it to a wider audience.
One thing we have lost a lot of since the 70's is our own inquisitiveness.There's loads of great new bands around working on budgets of next to nothing that would give many of the established acts from the past a run for their money.
Through social media they tried to lead the proverbial to water...making them drink is a whole different ball game :-)

[Digital_Man]

A lot of current bands make better albums, but they do not have a similar publicity machine to bring it to a wider audience.
One thing we have lost a lot of since the 70's is our own inquisitiveness.There's loads of great new bands around working on budgets of next to nothing that would give many of the established acts from the past a run for their money.
Through social media they tried to lead the proverbial to water...making them drink is a whole different ball game :-)

I agree. Think of all the people who wasted money on the latest Yes album when they could have bought some obscure band that was way better. People will gravitate towards something because of name recognition. If I buy the latest PF or especially the latest Yes it's not because I expect much but because I'm a completest who wants to have pretty much every album by band X. Your average Joe Six pack who spooges over Dark side of the Moon or maybe his older brother turned him on to Fragile and thus began a life long love affair with the most well known prog bands will buy the new albums by old dinosaurs not because he's a completest so much as he just doesn't know any better and doesn't know what else is out there.

I think over the past few years some of the newer bands have started to figure things out and have come up with clever ways to get themselves more exposure. One is by getting themselves an opening slot on the latest tour with YES(or whoever else)or by getting themselves booked on one of the Cruise to the Edge tours. It doesn't have to be YES that's just one example. These things lead to wider exposure and that's what todays prog bands need. Being an opening act for a big name band doesn't guarantee anything but it's a huge step towards lots of exposure that they need.

[Jay.Dee]

Have you tried your hand at the "actual" progressive bands; those who aren't into aping Genesis/Yes/ELP/Floyd/Tull/KC but who move beyond that and relate to other radical musics of our day and age?

[jkelman]

Sadly, social media has become such a massive thing, where so many folks post such dribble about every little thing they are doing at every moment of the day, that the potential it once had to really help create a buzz about things that deserved attention has been replaced by mounds and mounds of....dribble.

And it's a shame. Th concept was great....and to be fair, using social media has really helped me build my readership more than it would otherwise have been. But like, in another thread, bands competing for attention, on social media everyone is competing for attention. Sometimes competing with real, valid stuff...other times, just what Joey decided to buy at Starbucks.

[Scott Bails]

I disagree with that, John.

As a follower of yours and Anil's, you both have linked articles, reviews, and interviews that I've read, and given both of your journalistic pedigrees, I've learned to trust your recommendations. Twitter has been very useful in this regard.

Social media can certainly be full of dribble, but I like to think that it allows one to control the content that they follow and thus allows people to learn more about the things that they're interested in.

[Tangram]

I don't think Pink Floyd's latest release will have any effect outside of Pink Floyd. Bands like PF, the Rolling Stones, Genesis ect are like their own solar systems. They have massive fan bases, and huge amounts of marketing money. They can tour as much as they want and never worry about empty seats. The rules for them do not apply to other bands. The one thing is that most fans of these bands can't expect is anything radically different or new in terms of the style of music on their latest release. That's mainly because they are older, don't have the desire or time or money, to spent on their music like they did when they were in their teens and twenties. And just as Peter Gabriel sang all those years ago, I know what I like and I like what I know. Alan Parsons, who is not on the same playing field as the bands above but is from the roughly the same time, said in an interview that he the mistake he made with A Valid Path was it was too far from his classic sound and it alienated his fanbases without bring in many new fans. These older bands can augment their sound as PF did on The Endless River, but they can't greatly change what got them that fan base to start with.

I know many here will not agree with the above but that's because most PE'ers are not the average music fan. PE'ers still search for new bands and new sounds but thats just not the norm.

[Digital_Man]

It's tough for an older band to all of a sudden bring in a whole lot of new fans. Does anyone really think YES has brought in many fans since the early 90's or Genesis from the same time period? What a band needs to do is have albums or songs in the top 10 or just tour with other well known bands. That being said there's always going to be the younger folks who like the music their parents like or just older music in general. That won't necessarily lead them to discovering prog though.

[jkelman]

I disagree with that, John.

As a follower of yours and Anil's, you both have linked articles, reviews, and interviews that I've read, and given both of your journalistic pedigrees, I've learned to trust your recommendations. Twitter has been very useful in this regard.

Social media can certainly be full of dribble, but I like to think that it allows one to control the content that they follow and thus allows people to learn more about the things that they're interested in.

Thanks....and believe me I (and I am sure Anil) appreciate the support....and I'm not saying social media has no value. It has absolutely helped me to build a readership I'd not otherwise have. And until my final days as All About Jazz managing editor, I continued to encourage writers there to utilize social media for just that purpose...because I came to believe that it is no longer enough to just get published. You have to do everything you can to make sure potentially interested folks like yourself are aware of the work. And clearly, hearing from folks like yourself, it is working.

But as good as it is, it's becoming increasingly challenging to rise to the top, if you know what I mean. The sheer volume of Facebook posts, tweets and whatever verbs you apply to all the other social media platforms I use (MySpace, LinkedIn, Pinterest, Google+ and Instagram, in addition to boards like PE and assorted Yahoo groups, whenever relevant), it does seem at times like an uphill battle. But I will say posts like yours are really encouraging...so thank you for that; maybe I should reconsider my stand

OTOH, I will say this. I've been dealing with a major but thankfully not life-threatening health issue since the summer that has slowed me down considerably in the writing - and you may or may not have noticed this... less activity on social media, as well. The good news. - in addition to there being treatment that, however, will likely take a few months to get me back to normal speed - is that it appears that if you build enough momentum, you can slow down for awhile and not have it adversely affect your readership. So I am really very grateful for that.

That said, I wonder, were I to start from ground zero today, if I'd manage the same (relative) success that I have? I made a decision, in the summer of 2008, to diligently post every article published at AAJ to all the social media outlets, relevant boards and lists/groups, along with telling folks what I was working on - and also adding new social media outlets as they arose and picked up steam.

I also came to the conclusion that engaging with anyone who was kond enough to take the time to comment against my posts - positive or negative - was a good thing, as I've come to believe that peopl - whether they're fans of music, writing or anything else - remain so when they feel like the person they are following is not just listening to them but engaging them back...that fans today, more than simply being fed information, are more likely to stay with you if you make it clear that you are as interested in what they have to say as they (hopefully!) are in what you do. I am curious what folks here think of that? Do artists, writers...whatever....who take the time to respond to your posts encourage you to continue following them more?

And I really do want to thank any and everyone who has followed me on any social media outlet, through PE and/or any other portal. You guys have made a lot of things possible for me. Readership is what has led to many opportunities for me, from the 11,000 word liner to the upcoming Jaga Jazzist vinyl box (due out December 6) to travel opportunities and, for that matter, the book project that will hopefully be a go by the new year. I've always believed you build your readership one reader at a time, and I really do appreciate the support I get here at PE, and everywhere else as well.

So thanks, everyone!
John

[rojon]

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/d...nock-on-effect

knock-on effect
noun [C usually singular] UK /ˈnɒk.ɒn.ɪˌfekt/ US /ˈnɑːk.ɑːn-/ mainly UK
› When an event or situation has a knock-on effect, it causes other events or situations, but not directly:
If one or two trains run late, it has a knock-on effect on the entire rail service.
(Definition of knock-on effect from the Cambridge Advanced Learners Dictionary & Thesaurus © Cambridge University Press

knock on Wayne, knock on Garth

[Tangram]

That being said there's always going to be the younger folks who like the music their parents like or just older music in general. That won't necessarily lead them to discovering prog though.

Agreed. It's one thing to get into a band that you've been introduced to by a friend or an older sibling, it's quite another to be shown the music by your parents. Every generation wants their own heroes and part of the fun is finding something totally different than your parents. It's a real tough sell when the band members are all old enough to be collecting social security checks. There is a bunch of music from my parents that I listen to now but not when I was a kid. PF's swan song will not push very many to checking out Prog outside of the PF back catalog.

[Digital_Man]

Agreed. It's one thing to get into a band that you've been introduced to by a friend or an older sibling, it's quite another to be shown the music by your parents. Every generation wants their own heroes and part of the fun is finding something totally different than your parents. It's a real tough sell when the band members are all old enough to be collecting social security checks. There is a bunch of music from my parents that I listen to now but not when I was a kid. PF's swan song will not push very many to checking out Prog outside of the PF back catalog.

Yep. There is no one single album that is the big "this will turn everyone on to prog." I think maybe "Close to the Edge" and maybe some early Genesis and Pink Floyd will turn some people on to prog but people first have to know what prog is and link certain bands and albums to the genre for them to find out about it and get into it and that requires a certain amount of insightfulness and acuity. But when you said every generation wants their own heroes that's true. However, this by itself doesn't mean younger folks can't get into prog because that would mean there are no newer prog bands for them to find out about and that's just not true. So instead of getting into prog through PF, YES and Genesis they might(and this admittedly is a big might)get into the genre through newer bands(I won't bother going into who those newer bands are though).

[MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER]

Yep. There is no one single album that is the big "this will turn everyone on to prog." I think maybe "Close to the Edge" and maybe some early Genesis

Thankfully, I first heard Progressive Rock music before those two bands turned Prog... otherwise I would probably have thought less of Progressive Rock seeing as the overabundance of vocals with silly lyrical content is a huge turnoff for me. Meddle was much stronger with much less vocals and of course, the Jazz guys who turned to Rock music made the very best Prog music in those early years. Also King Crimson were stronger with less quasi-poetic, airy-fairy lyrics (yes, I know Crimso did some of that junk too but not to the excess degree of Yes and Genesis) One Prog fan's sacred cow is another's McDonald's hamburger

[Tangram]

But when you said every generation wants their own heroes that's true. However, this by itself doesn't mean younger folks can't get into prog because that would mean there are no newer prog bands for them to find out about and that's just not true. So instead of getting into prog through PF, YES and Genesis they might(and this admittedly is a big might)get into the genre through newer bands(I won't bother going into who those newer bands are though).

Yes, there are newer bands that will draw in new Prog fans, but Pink Floyd's The Endless River is not going to really make any new converts. You're right that you still may get some new fans from the prog classics, but getting the uninitiated from a group who's last studio album was released 20 years, is not touring to support the new album and to top it off, is retiring, well it ain't gonna happen.

[Scott Bails]

I also came to the conclusion that engaging with anyone who was kond enough to take the time to comment against my posts - positive or negative - was a good thing, as I've come to believe that peopl - whether they're fans of music, writing or anything else - remain so when they feel like the person they are following is not just listening to them but engaging them back...that fans today, more than simply being fed information, are more likely to stay with you if you make it clear that you are as interested in what they have to say as they (hopefully!) are in what you do. I am curious what folks here think of that? Do artists, writers...whatever....who take the time to respond to your posts encourage you to continue following them more?

Yes, absolutely. Definitely agree with this. Part of it is fanboyism, when an artist (or whoever) you admire responds to something that you say, but it's also just human nature to be more receptive to actual dialogue than just a one-sided conversation.

Yep. There is no one single album that is the big "this will turn everyone on to prog." I think maybe "Close to the Edge" and maybe some early Genesis and Pink Floyd will turn some people on to prog but people first have to know what prog is and link certain bands and albums to the genre for them to find out about it and get into it and that requires a certain amount of insightfulness and acuity. But when you said every generation wants their own heroes that's true. However, this by itself doesn't mean younger folks can't get into prog because that would mean there are no newer prog bands for them to find out about and that's just not true. So instead of getting into prog through PF, YES and Genesis they might(and this admittedly is a big might)get into the genre through newer bands(I won't bother going into who those newer bands are though).

I can really only speak for myself, but when I was in my "formative years" and was learning about music and the history of rock, etc., I would want to learn about my favorite artists' influences, and then would want to investigate that. When Steve Howe says that he listened to Wes Montgomery, I wanted to know who this Wes Montgomery dude was. When ELP is covering classical pieces, I wanted to hear the original versions, etc.

No idea if people still do this, but I'd think that if a Taylor Hawkins from the Foo Fighters or someone similar expressed a love of a Prog artist that it would generate some interest.