Collins blames Page & Plant for Led Zep disaster !

[Jeremy Bender]

I saw Page and Plant on their first tour together. Page was awful and out-of-tune most of the show, which, not surprisingly, didn't phase the crowd one bit.

I saw that tour in 1995 at the Forum in Los Angeles, Page played great stuff that night. They opened with what may be my favorite Zep song, The Wanton Song, and I went nuts. Great show, but it just made me sad that I'd missed Zeppelin in 1975 because my friend's sister got three tickets but elected to take two guys she was dating instead of her brother and myself (and one of those assholes fell asleep after two songs and didn't wake up until the encores!) and in 1977 because I was desperately poor and couldn't afford to go to see them. They were supposed to play at least two shows at the Rose Bowl (about 80,000 capacity for concerts) in 1980 but that never happened for obvious reasons.

[LEG-art]

“You could sense I wasn’t welcome'


I guess you know now how Steve feels Phil.

[Score2112]

I agree totally, yet I was at the MSG/NY show ...There was someone even putting cigarettes in Page's mouth and they kept falling out!! Beck was the star of the guitar that night!!..I have seen Phil Collins 5 times( 4 w / Genesis, 1 time on the debut Robert Plant Solo tour @ MSG)..Each and every time, he was in top form, no issues..Saw Page twice(the a fore mentioned Ronnie Lane Benefit..Terrible!, and solo in 1988 , MUCH improved, even did "In My Time Of Dying" which sealed the deal for me!!) So, I think Phil is being the complete scapegoat here..

Agreed -- blaming Page for this mess.

[ronmac]

Gotta give credit where credit is due. No matter how terrible and out-of-it Page is, he always seems to have his posing well intact.

[profusion]

I saw that tour in 1995 at the Forum in Los Angeles, Page played great stuff that night. They opened with what be my favorite Zep song, The Wanton Song, and I went nuts. Great show, but it just made me sad that I'd missed Zeppelin in 1975 because my friend's sister got three tickets but elected to take two guys she was dating instead of her brother and myself (and one of those assholes fell asleep after two songs and didn't wake up until the encores!) and in 1977 because I was desperately poor and couldn't afford to go to see them. They were supposed to play at least two shows at the Rose Bowl (about 80,000 capacity for concerts) in 1980 but that never happened for obvious reasons.

Page was WAY better on both of the Page/Plant tours than he was earlier during the '80s. I saw both tours and thought he was just as good as he had been for most of the '70s. He seems to have gotten his act together sometime around the end of the '80s, considering that he did fine work on the Coverdale/Page album.

[dgtlman]

You can hear a little more about this incident in this vid, around the 07:00 mark is where it begins

[Adm.Kirk]

Live Aid was rough. Plant's voice was shot as he was just coming off tour, Page's guitar was never tuned before he went on stage. Not enough rehearsal time either. It was unfortunate, but great to see them on stage again. Also, there were monitor problems. I think they were completely gone by the time Zep was on.

Jimmy, the Drool King. I have a couple of boots where he drooling and sweating like a mad man. He's always been a big sweater but the drool thing was a bit odd.

That 1977 show in Seattle is pretty bad. Other shows that tour were terrific. The 95 and 98 tours with Plant were very good to excellent. I saw them in Charlotte in 98 and Page was playing great.

Bill

[JeffCarney]

You can hear a little more about this incident in this vid, around the 07:00 mark is where it begins

Come ON!

I guess while most guys gain some humility in their older age, Page is still kidding himself.

Newsflash, Jimmy, the #1 problem at Live Aid was you.

For starters, wtf is on his guitar throughout the entire "Rock and Roll"? A flanger? Jeezus.

And his soloing on STH is abysmal. Not that I haven't heard him similarly lost on the same track during the 70s, but to try to put Live Aid off on "the drummers' is weaker than weak. What a piece of work this guy can be.

[Adm.Kirk]

I wouldn't lay the blame on Page alone. I think everyone could take some of that. They were all unprepared. They needed two more days of rehearsal. They essentially tried to wing it. That was where the mistake came.

Bill

[Rufus]

Without refreshing my mind of the live aid line-up, did any other bands reform for the event but didn't 'screw up'?

[ronmac]

Without refreshing my mind of the live aid line-up, did any other bands reform for the event but didn't 'screw up'?

Black Sabbath reunited, which was actually a bigger highlight for me. They were okay.

[JeffCarney]

I wouldn't lay the blame on Page alone. I think everyone could take some of that. They were all unprepared. They needed two more days of rehearsal. They essentially tried to wing it. That was where the mistake came.

I certainly wouldn't put all the blame on Page.

But him trying to put the blame on "the drummers" is simply not to be believed, IMO. If anything, his performance is the biggest drag on the whole thing.

I suspect that Page is one of these people who really lets his critics get to him. His overuse of editing on archival live releases and tendency to deny his thievery would tend to suggest this to be the case. Maybe the latter is because it is legally what he's been advised to do, I don't know ...

He's accomplished so much. I don't understand why at his age he doesn't just become a bit self-deprecating and take himself a bit more lightly. He has nothing to prove! I've heard some people say he's such a "cool old guy" now, but I see a guy who's clearly worried about naysayers. Why not feel comfortable in just saying it wasn't a good performance and even taking some blame? Putting it off on the drummers is Grade A, weak bullshit. Even if it was true, it would be bullshit, but this another level.

[JJ88]

There were a few other 'comebacks'- Status Quo's last performance with Alan Lancaster after they had 'retired', The Who, Paul McCartney returning to the stage for (I think) the first time since John Lennon's murder- and some of those also went badly! I remember a documentary the BBC ran about the whole day- McCartney's performance was all but ruined by the microphone not being heard by the crowd and The Who's set got accidentally cut off on the TV. It was more about the cause than the music- Queen's set is the one people remember and they rehearsed it with military precision.

I did watch basically all of Live8 when it was on and that had some really shoddy performances too- I recall Elton John and Pete Doherty slaughtering Marc Bolan's 'Children Of The Revolution', awful! As with the previous one, it's just one actual performance that people really still talk about- Pink Floyd.

[ronmac]

I recall seeing Jerry Garcia and Bob Weir on Letterman many years ago. Dave mentioned a particular show and Jerry, smiling and without hesitation, said, "We probably sucked, because we usually do." I'm paraphrasing, but found it refreshing. And, it wasn't modesty, because everyone knew they had some pretty bad shows for various reasons. But, he had the humility to accept that.

[WytchCrypt]

I recall seeing Jerry Garcia and Bob Weir on Letterman many years ago. Dave mentioned a particular show and Jerry, smiling and without hesitation, said, "We probably sucked, because we usually do." I'm paraphrasing, but found it refreshing. And, it wasn't modesty, because everyone knew they had some pretty bad shows for various reasons. But, he had the humility to accept that.

I've heard deadheads refer to it as "the one in three rule"...where 1 out of every 3 shows was great...the other 2, not so much. The real question is if you saw 2 lousy shows in a row, was it worth it to drive 100 miles to see show #3

[GuitarGeek]

I recall seeing Jerry Garcia and Bob Weir on Letterman many years ago. Dave mentioned a particular show and Jerry, smiling and without hesitation, said, "We probably sucked, because we usually do." I'm paraphrasing, but found it refreshing. And, it wasn't modesty, because everyone knew they had some pretty bad shows for various reasons. But, he had the humility to accept that.

If you're talking about the one I think you're talking about (September-ish 1987), Dave asked them about playing in Egypt, and Jerry sort of laughs and says "we were awful", then admits they always had trouble delivering the goods on "special occasions", eg Monterey Pop, Woodstock, Watkins Glen, Egypt, etc.

In the case of Watkins Glen, for many years, the soundcheck tape from the day before (virtually a full on dress reherasal, as they do a full two sets) was more revered by collectors than the recording of the actual scheduled show.

With Woodstock, they were fighting a downhil battle against the elements, a collapsing stage, and a frelled up PA system. Weir says he and Jerry kept getting electrical shocks everytime they touched their microphones. Phil Lesh said once his amp was picking up police radio transmissions (a memory that caused him to nearly poop himself laughing when he saw This Is Spinal Tap 15 years later). One thing's for sure: if you're going to do a big outdoor concert, it's probably not a good idea to have a giant backdrop light show screen unless you're performing in a venue that's permanently moored to ground.

[GuitarGeek]

I've heard deadheads refer to it as "the one in three rule"...where 1 out of every 3 shows was great...the other 2, not so much. The real question is if you saw 2 lousy shows in a row, was it worth it to drive 100 miles to see show #3

That's the 80's and 90's you're talking about. If the band played three nights in a given city. Often times, the first night would be a little ragged, because they're still getting used to the venue or whatever. There might be technical glitches with the equipment, and that sometimes threw the band off a bit. The second night would typically the one that was anywhere from pretty good to awesome (well, awesome for the era, remember this isn't 1974, we're talking about here).

Then the third night often times was really good, but not quite as good as the second night, and sometimes, whether because someone was feeling the fatigue of a three nighter, say if one of the vocalists' was starting to have trouble singing, it could be a bit ragged again.

On the other hand, those big multi-night runs they did at Madison Square Garden in in the late 80's and early 90's often times had lots of great shows in them.

And if you jump back in the 72-74 era, virtually every night was a smoker. Certainly on the Europe 72 tour, I don't think there was a band night on that tour, and I don't believe I've heard a single bad show from that time period. Assorted archival live releases (including a number of the Dick's Picks and Road Trips releases, as well as the Grateful Dead Movie Soundtrack) bare witness to this fact.

Of course, if you don't particularly like the Dead's music to begin with, you're not gonna give a damn which show was supposed to be the best or whatever. (shrug)

[GuitarGeek]

There were a few other 'comebacks'- Status Quo's last performance with Alan Lancaster after they had 'retired', The Who, Paul McCartney returning to the stage for (I think) the first time since John Lennon's murder- and some of those also went badly! I remember a documentary the BBC ran about the whole day- McCartney's performance was all but ruined by the microphone not being heard by the crowd and The Who's set got accidentally cut off on the TV. It was more about the cause than the music- Queen's set is the one people remember and they rehearsed it with military precision.

Status Quo were pretty good. The Who's set didn't just get cut off on TV. As I recall, there was actually a powerful failure at Wembley Stadium that interrupted their set, which just conveniently occurred as Roger Daltrey was singing "Why don't you all ffffffffff....." and that's when it happened. One of the BBC guys recounted on VH-1's 10th anniversary special of witnessing the tech staff at Wembley change the largest fuse he'd ever seen in his life.

A bigger point I've always wondered about is that John Entwistle said once that Live Aid was "the last straw" that convinced him to stop using Alembic basses. He said he had "crossed a couple wires" while changing batteries in his main Alembic, so it wouldn't work, so he had to run back to the dressing room, and get his back up bass. But since there were no transformer boxes (which he apparently had to use with the Alembic), he couldn't tune up backstage, . If you listen very carefully to the small portion of My Generation we got to hear (at least the portion we got to hear Stateside, on the MTV broadcast) he actually had to tune up as the song progressed. I think he said he had the instrument "just about in tune" by the time of the bass solo. But by the time satellite feed was back up, they were already on to the coda section of the song, so we never got to hear what happened during that gap.

I don't remember much about Black Sabbath's set, really. As I recall Sabbath and Judas Priest were the sole heavy metal representatives.

And yeah, I remember Dick Clark doing a voice over during Paul McCartney's version of Let It Be to tell us that "there is a problem with the microphone onstage, do not adjust your television set" or something daft like that. To me that ruined the thing more than the actual technical glitch. As I recall, the audience took over and started singing the song, and then about 3/4's of the way through, the mic finally started working and there was a huge cheer from the crowd. As I recall, Townshend, Bowie, and a couple others ran out onstage and sang back up on one of the other mics onstage, I think once it was realized that Paul's wasn't working.

I did watch basically all of Live8 when it was on and that had some really shoddy performances too- I recall Elton John and Pete Doherty slaughtering Marc Bolan's 'Children Of The Revolution', awful! As with the previous one, it's just one actual performance that people really still talk about- Pink Floyd.

VH-1 Classic only showed edited highlights (including a measly one song from the Floyd performance). The thing I remember was Eddie Trunk's Floyd introduction, "I can't believe I'm about to say this".

[selmer]

Maybe Page thought that working with Charles Bronson and Michael Winner on Death Wish 3 was a more exciting prospect and experience than any other events at the time

[JJ88]

It was Bowie, Townshend, possibly Bob Geldof (could be wrong on that one) and Alison Moyet who came on stage for 'Let It Be'. From what I remember Bowie didn't seem to know the words! (He also made a mistake on the opening line of 'Do They Know It's Christmas', bless him!) McCartney re-did at least the vocal for subsequent release of that performance.

There was a very good BBC documentary on the lead-up to the concerts and the concerts themselves. That's where I first saw any of the performances...I believe they were seldom seen prior to the DVD release. I'm sure there was some of Phil playing with Led Zeppelin and him pointing out that if you look at the footage you can see how pissed off he was with the performance.

[GuitarGeek]

Maybe Page thought that working with Charles Bronson and Michael Winner on Death Wish 3 was a more exciting prospect and experience than any other events at the time

Page didn't actually work on Death Wish 3. They just re-used the cues he wrote for Death Wish 2. I remember around the time Death Wish 2 came out, there was a two page ad for the Roland guitar synth line, which had comments from Fripp, Andy Summers, Skunk Baxter, Leon Gaer (apparently a studio bassist who was heavily into bass synths, even before Roland introduced the GR-33), and Page. Page commented that he was using two GR-300's together on the Death Wish soundtrack, and the photo in the ad showed him in a room full of Roland equipment.

[GuitarGeek]

It was Bowie, Townshend, possibly Bob Geldof (could be wrong on that one) and Alison Moyet who came on stage for 'Let It Be'.

Yeah, that sounds about right. I'm sure if I dig out the Live Aid book that I own, I'll find those are the people pictured behind McCartney. BTW, according to Wikipedia, Paul actually redid his Let It Be vocal in the studio on the very next day, but it was never heard by the public until the DVD's came out.

From what I remember Bowie didn't seem to know the words! (He also made a mistake on the opening line of 'Do They Know It's Christmas', bless him!)

As Geldof said before the started the song, "If you're going to cock it up, you might as well cock it up in front 1,000,000,000 people!".

There was a very good BBC documentary on the lead-up to the concerts and the concerts themselves. That's where I first saw any of the performances...I believe they were seldom seen prior to the DVD release. I'm sure there was some of Phil playing with Led Zeppelin and him pointing out that if you look at the footage you can see how pissed off he was with the performance.

Geldof intended Live Aid to be a one off event, never to be seen again, and had asked the various broadcasters who carried the show to erase any tapes they made of the event. ABC, who carried the last few hours of the Philadelphia concert in prime time, apparently complied, though they had sent copies of their tapes beforehand to the Smithsonian Institute, who apparently lost them at some point.

The BBC and MTV kept some of the footage, but both have lots of gaps in them. And I gather there's a lot of stuff that only exists in the form of off air recordings people did at home with their VCR's or from the radio braodcasts.

[GuitarGeek]

One thing I learned from reading the Live Aid book: apparently, REO Speedwagon are an "American heavy metal band".

[Scott Bails]

REO didn't play Live Aid, did they?

[GuitarGeek]

REO didn't play Live Aid, did they?

Yes, they did, they played in the morning in Philadelphia. I remember Kevin Cronin announcing onstage that they had to catch a plane to whichever city they were doing a regular gig at that night.