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Thread: Amazing Ambrosia Concert Footage Found From 1976

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    I don't consider anything "prog", seeing how there isn't even a definition at hand that people can agree on. So what the hell else is new? By some folks' standard today, 90% of 70s progressive rock music couldn't possibly have been "prog" in the first place as it didn't comply with the grand outline laid by the retroactive efforts of Roine, Neal, Portnoy, Yanni and Jon Bon.
    IMO, the term progressive rock should only refer to the difference that a piece of Rock music makes relative to the music that is being created at that time. The term progressive has more strength if there is difference for all time. The debate as to what kind of difference is progressive will go on forever, but there must be a difference. Difference can be created by combining elements which are familiar in an unfamiliar way. There is no doubt in my mind that Ambrosia met the full strength of this aspect of the definition of the term progressive. While modern progressive rock has elements which are retrogressive, I see elements from the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90's combined to make in a synergistic way, different rock music than the regurgitation of mainstream rock.

  2. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Firth View Post
    IMO, the term progressive rock should only refer to the difference that a piece of Rock music makes relative to the music that is being created at that time. The term progressive has more strength if there is difference for all time. The debate as to what kind of difference is progressive will go on forever, but there must be a difference. Difference can be created by combining elements which are familiar in an unfamiliar way. There is no doubt in my mind that Ambrosia met the full strength of this aspect of the definition of the term progressive. While modern progressive rock has elements which are retrogressive, I see elements from the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90's combined to make in a synergistic way, different rock music than the regurgitation of mainstream rock.
    Look, I really won't get into the ol' "what is prog?"-debate all over - life's just too damn short. Suffice to say that I basically agree with the initial paragraphs of yours here, but that you contradict yourself in the latter ones. Because there's no such thing as a single entity "modern progressive rock"; there are "actual" progressive rock artists and "so-called" ones, the latter somehow insisting on keeping the stereotypes attached to a strictly stylistic perception of the concept - which was NOT the defining factor to begin with back in 1967-70 when the idiom appeared. Artistic virtues go beyond mere aesthetics, and the artistic ones of progressive rock were temporal eclecticism and transcendence. The aesthetics of 95% of contemporary "symph rock" do not imply such artistic virtues, so for "modern progressive rock" you'll *mostly* have to look elsewhere.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    Look, I really won't get into the ol' "what is prog?"-debate all over - life's just too damn short. Suffice to say that I basically agree with the initial paragraphs of yours here, but that you contradict yourself in the latter ones. Because there's no such thing as a single entity "modern progressive rock"; there are "actual" progressive rock artists and "so-called" ones, the latter somehow insisting on keeping the stereotypes attached to a strictly stylistic perception of the concept - which was NOT the defining factor to begin with back in 1967-70 when the idiom appeared. Artistic virtues go beyond mere aesthetics, and the artistic ones of progressive rock were temporal eclecticism and transcendence. The aesthetics of 95% of contemporary "symph rock" do not imply such artistic virtues, so for "modern progressive rock" you'll *mostly* have to look elsewhere.
    Well I don't want to get in a debate about artistic virtue because beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but there is one aspect which is necessary but not sufficient to define progressive rock. In fact a lot of folk and rock in the late 60s and 70s had that same aspect, but not all would be characterized as progressive rock. I'm just saying that there are some modern bands with songs which have this aspect and I would call progressive. The use of the term symph is just as problematic as using the term prog. A lot of people use both terms to describe music which doesn't meet my criteria for progressive rock, but there is some music labeled that does. Some people listen to a band and hear symph, even though it's a composite of multiple influences, but they can't get past the part that compares to the past. I agree that 95% of music labeled progressive rock today doesn't measure up the strength of the one aspect of progressive rock that Ambrosia and Alan Parsons had at the time.

  4. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Firth View Post
    The use of the term symph is just as problematic as using the term prog. A lot of people use both terms to describe music which doesn't meet my criteria for progressive rock, but there is some music labeled that does.
    Well, sort of. Yes and no. "Symph rock" limits the music to somewhere/anywhere between The Moodies, Yes and synth-heavy Iron Maiden. Which is perfectly alright, 'cause it's a vast universe right there. But there's preciously little progressive left to be done in those waters now. As such, very little modern "symph" has much to do with the original ideals and virtues of progressive rock music from a historical point of view.

    For music to expose a level of eclecticism, transcendence and temporal complexity it needs to relate to the most far-reaching achievements of contemporary "rock-related" antics, which again beckons a different standard of insight and overview than what is usually found with whoever claims the "prog" tag nowadays. To have an active sonar as to when, where or how the nearest "big six"-reference is generated does not imply that an outcome qualifies as meeting the criteria.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  5. #55
    Member Gizmotron's Avatar
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    I think the above posts are wonderful! Not because I dig the areas being discussed, but because we have finally stopped discussing Air Supply!

  6. #56


    Let's hear it for this closeted prog gem all over again. Be sure to watch the whole thing, 'cause there's a goodie in store.

    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  7. #57
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    The entire Ambrosia concert is now viewable!


  8. #58
    Thanks to you guys that cleared up the 12 string question! I saw them open for Styx's "Crystal Ball" tour at the Arlington in Santa Barbara in whatever year that was and have wondered about that guitar ever since. I remember it was an ugly green color! LOL! I had the same question about Mark Farner's main guitar in Grand Funk Railroad for years. It turned out to be an obscure brand named "Messenger", a semi-hollow body that he used to tape over the "F" holes to reduce feedback.

  9. #59
    Thx for posting the entire thing. I'll watch later.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

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