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Thread: King Crimson - "Lizard" Released on This Day

  1. #26
    It's grown on me more than Islands has. Probably #2 album for me out of the first four.
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  2. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by trondis23 View Post
    I think that they only played two of the songs live, and that didn't work IMO.
    "Cirkus" and "Lady of the Dancing Water" were both played by the Islands band, and both worked IMO.

    The biggest mistake the 21st Century Schizoid Band made (besides breaking up, I guess) was not playing "Happy Family" or "Indoor Games."
    Last edited by polmico; 12-12-2012 at 06:29 PM. Reason: I fucked up.
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  3. #28
    Lizard and Islands are my 2 fav KC albums, if only because they stand apart from anything else they ever did. All other eras have groupings of albums and styles, these two are unlike anything else.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post
    I think it's my preferred one, just ahead or Aspic and Court

    I love the Tippett-boys guest musicians' inputs
    Tippet boys? Only one guy named Tippet guested on this album. I've been trying to find a copy of this album for years after I heard that it was different(Read:jazzier) than the other KC albums. I found a full stream of the album on a facebook profile called Rock Song Album. I like it!! Wish Best Buy had a copy of it. Although, I'm glad I found Discipline on there.

  5. #30
    I think he means jazzers whom Tippett knew and introduced to Fripp. "Tippett boys."
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    Quote Originally Posted by polmico View Post
    I think he means jazzers whom Tippett knew and introduced to Fripp. "Tippett boys."
    Oh. I figured that, but wasn't sure.

  7. #32
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    "Who tortured you and made you listen to Yes?" - Roger Dean at NEARfest, 2012




    Wow, who did Roger Dean say this too? That doesn't really sound like him but I suppose it's certainly possible.


    Anway, I like Lizard a lot but I like the others more. It's probably my second to least favorite of the 69-74 albums just ahead of Islands. I still like all of them a lot though. Happy Family could be about my family so it is sort of a special song to me.
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  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by JIF View Post
    Oh. I figured that, but wasn't sure.
    Yup, that's whatr I meant....

    Charig and that crowd... the guys that were in the Keith Tippett Group
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

  9. #34
    I listened to it the other day. Not played it as much as the first two so less familiar with it. I love the way album to album they keep developing in terms of lengthy compositions. Moonchild was a flawed experiment but they improved on this with The Devil's Triangle and by Lizard had excelled in this kind of work.

  10. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholas View Post
    I listened to it the other day. Not played it as much as the first two so less familiar with it. I love the way album to album they keep developing in terms of lengthy compositions. Moonchild was a flawed experiment but they improved on this with The Devil's Triangle and by Lizard had excelled in this kind of work.
    Of course "they" is an odd term, since nobody, with the exception of Fripp, was on Lizard, so more accurately, "by Lizared he had improved/excelled."

    But also, I think that comparisons between Moonchild, Devil's Triangle and Lizard are a little odd, if only because the part of Moonchild that folks who don't like it don't like it because is the free improv (which I think is lovely, as opposed to DT which scares the pants off me). While improvisation is a part of DT and much of the Lizard album, there's really not much free improv - segments that are not predicated on some form of structure. Once they get past the "song" intro to Moonchild, it's free all the way. ON DT and, very much particularly on Lizard, there's no place where there's absolutely free improv; instead, the players are improvising freely (a difference) over structures like on Happy Family and Indoor Games. Improvising freely and free improv are different - aspects of the same beast, but different, just the same. So I don't think there's really much evolution to be seen.

    Plus, as I said, with the exception of Fripp and pianist Keith Tippett, who appeared on DT and Lizard, there's nobody else who evolved. But Fripp was sure growing, conceptually, in leaps and bounds, wasn't he?

    Best!
    John

  11. #36
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    I do agree that I don't really hear that much "real improv" space on either of the three Crimson album

    Yes, in Moonchild there is some "real improv", which s wasted by people not able to improvise well (unexperienced at the time)...
    on DT, it's not as evident the real improv is there, while on Lizard, there improv is seriously framed and limited by the time restraint and format composition... I'd guess Charig and Miller could do "as they wanted" inside the solo space they were alloted, but they didn't have the improv freedom that they would've had on a Tippett or Graham Collier album... or even a Soft Machine album

    IMHO, of course
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

  12. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post
    I'd guess Charig and Miller could do "as they wanted" inside the solo space they were alloted.
    [I think you mean Nick Evans, not (Harry or Robin) Miller] Yes, they were free to improvise whatever few bars here and there they were told to play over, BUT ultimately, it was the producers' choice which bits of takes to use, which is about as anti-jazz as it gets from a production standpoint (of course Teo Macero went even further with Miles Davis albums at the time, but he was equally at odds with the standard jazz practice of "capturing the moment" as honestly as possible). The jazz musicians were used in the context of what was essentially a pop production (ditto the classical players like Robin Miller - who was famously unable to improvise btw - but that was less of a departure since they played written parts anyway).

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by calyx View Post
    [I think you mean Nick Evans, not (Harry or Robin) Miller].
    yup, I meant Evans, thanks ...

    Harry Miller is a (South-African-born) contrabassist and Robin Miller indeed apparently more of a classdical musician (as you say at the end of your post)
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

  14. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post
    I do agree that I don't really hear that much "real improv" space on either of the three Crimson album
    Just to be clear, if you replying to my post, I say 'free Impeov' not 'real' improv. There's only totally free improv on Moonchild. There is plenty of real improv throughout all three...Moonchild, DT and Lizard.....

    Just want to be clear.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by jkelman View Post
    Just to be clear, if you replying to my post, I say 'free Impeov' not 'real' improv. There's only totally free improv on Moonchild. There is plenty of real improv throughout all three...Moonchild, DT and Lizard.....

    Just want to be clear.
    Actually, I was more or less responding to the post above yours (Nicholas), which seemed to be responding to another post, but in a lesser way yours as well....

    I think we can agree on the degrees of improvs in those three tracks...
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

  16. #41
    Yup, Trane. but just wanted to make sure that your use of the term "real improv" is not mine. For one, what exactly IS real improv?


    Cheers!
    John

  17. #42
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    Lizard is one of my biggest favourites from King Crimson. I wrote a review of it: https://pienemmatpurot.com/review-ki...n-lizard-1970/
    My progressive music site: https://pienemmatpurot.com/ Reviews in English: https://pienemmatpurot.com/in-english/

  18. #43
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    Probably my favourite album of all.

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kcrimso View Post
    Lizard is one of my biggest favourites from King Crimson. I wrote a review of it: https://pienemmatpurot.com/review-ki...n-lizard-1970/
    A very perceptive review - have always had a soft spot for LIZARD.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Jackson View Post
    A very perceptive review - have always had a soft spot for LIZARD.
    Thank you for the compliment!
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  21. #46
    Lizard is probably my favorite KC record overall. It’s really really good!

  22. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Kcrimso View Post
    Thanks - really enjoyed that. I'm also a big fan of Lizard.
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  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff O'Donoghue View Post
    Thanks - really enjoyed that. I'm also a big fan of Lizard.
    Thanks for reading!
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  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kcrimso View Post
    Lizard is one of my biggest favourites from King Crimson. I wrote a review of it: https://pienemmatpurot.com/review-ki...n-lizard-1970/
    Good review, but it's too bad you don't actually speak describe the most amazing moment : The Battle of Glass Tears.
    You're right between the canonballs crashing into the ground next to you and madness of massacre.
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

  25. #50
    The one I listen to most.
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