^^You beat me to it. I'm not sure that I want to see it now. Not so much sour grapes, but just the sloppiness, and inaccuracy of such a move, gives cause for concern over the whole project.
Astonishing.
neil
^^You beat me to it. I'm not sure that I want to see it now. Not so much sour grapes, but just the sloppiness, and inaccuracy of such a move, gives cause for concern over the whole project.
Astonishing.
neil
Yeah, I must admit my enthusiasm for this doc has seriously diminished since it aired, and I haven't even seen it yet! I've never liked how the media ignored or underrepresented Hackett, but these days especially there's no excuse for it.Originally Posted by boilk
Interviewer of reprobate ne'er-do-well musicians of the long-haired rock n' roll persuasion at: www.velvetthunder.co.uk and former scribe at Classic Rock Society. Only vaguely aware of anything other than music.
*** Join me in the Garden of Delights for 3 hours of tune-spinning... every Saturday at 5pm EST on Deep Nuggets radio! www.deepnuggets.com ***
Steve sounds pissed off and I don't blame him. Peter Gabriel was barely given much more interview time either. Weird.
I've never really had an issue with his comments before but a few times Tony Banks raised my hackles in this with a few comments. He seemed quite crabby in this, less humour than usual.
Last edited by JJ88; 10-05-2014 at 10:47 AM.
Seems like Steve himself was disappointed with the editing/final product: he's been retweeting posts all morning about how he was airbrushed out, Tony's comments, etc.
Still want to see the apparent failure of a doc to assess myself, but doesnt sound good. Too bad. Along with the dismal R-Kive set, a real missed opportunity.
Funny....Anthony Phillips recently was interviewed about how he was not included with the other five in this documentary, and was quoted as saying "Occasionally one feels a little bit of a sort of footnote in history, almost airbrushed out."
Guess those two guys can commiserate with each other. At least they haven't been literally airbrushed out of the album covers and history like the Moodies are doing to Patrick Moraz.
R-Kive is a phenomenally crap title. Did some marketing dweeb come up with that? "Hey, it's phonetic, geddit?!?" Do they think R Kelly fans will be drawn to it? And as for the crap new logo, produced by throwing magnetic letters at a fridge...
They spend ten minutes covering "Buster."
"Peter Gabriel left Genesis to write and record the song 'That'll Do, Pig' before retiring."
Even if I didn't already have a compilation, I could never bring myself to spend money on something that has Phil Collins (Or Rutherford) solo tracks on it.
This documentary was aimed at a mainstream BBC2 audience remember, not hardcore Genesis fans. They devoted more time to the later stuff I'm assuming because that era was orders of magnitude more popular than the earlier stuff. Having said that, I haven't watched the whole thing yet but I'm nearly half an hour in and they've just reached Selling England...I suppose some people wouldn't be happy unless anything after Duke wasn't dismissed with a simple three-word phrase - IT'S ALL CRAP!
Oh, and I guess I'm the only one bothered by the rather unnecessary misogyny in the original post?
Yes.
Oh, and I guess I'm the only one bothered by the rather unnecessary misogyny in the original post?
The BEEB have done some excellent rock documentaries of late clearly aimed at the hardcore fans. If Banks formed a touring band that played 80's era it would struggle to put bums on seats unlike Hackett's tour. I''m sure if the BEEB did one on Floyd there would be little reference to post Waters era despite it being their most commercially successful! They fucked up big time on this one & somebody didn't do their research!This documentary was aimed at a mainstream BBC2 audience remember, not hardcore Genesis fans. They devoted more time to the later stuff I'm assuming because that era was orders of magnitude more popular than the earlier stuff. Having said that, I haven't watched the whole thing yet but I'm nearly half an hour in and they've just reached Selling England...I suppose some people wouldn't be happy unless anything after Duke wasn't dismissed with a simple three-word phrase - IT'S ALL CRAP!
Oh, and I guess I'm the only one bothered by the rather unnecessary misogyny in the original post?
Last edited by Rufus; 10-05-2014 at 02:06 PM.
Usually on the more niche BBC4. And post-Waters Floyd their most successful? WTF?
^^^note I said commercially!Usually on the more niche BBC4. And post-Waters Floyd their most successful? WTF?
All apes are created equal, but it seems some are more equal than others...
A bit like the members of Genesis we now see.
So, is this different than the Sum of the Parts coming out in November? I'm a little confused with all the releases coming out.
Based on the reviews here, I have no interest in seeing this one. What's the point of sitting them all down in the room if there wasn't real conversation among them. You want a good video? Let them at each other so we can find out what's really going on here!
Also, there should be no one interviewing them under 60 years old. Stop insulting the real fan base. We're still here while the pop-tarts have long since forgotten them.
JG
"MARKLAR!"
They spent a more than fair amount on the early stuff. The problems with this show for me were far deeper than that. If you recall this show had much made of the fact that there was an interview with all five of them in one room...which barely appeared in it. Steve Hackett made a couple of blink-and-you'll-miss-him appearances. Ray Wilson wasn't even mentioned in a 'we did an album without Phil which wasn't very successful' way. And some of the talking head comments were inane.This documentary was aimed at a mainstream BBC2 audience remember, not hardcore Genesis fans. They devoted more time to the later stuff I'm assuming because that era was orders of magnitude more popular than the earlier stuff. Having said that, I haven't watched the whole thing yet but I'm nearly half an hour in and they've just reached Selling England...I suppose some people wouldn't be happy unless anything after Duke wasn't dismissed with a simple three-word phrase - IT'S ALL CRAP!
Oh, and I guess I'm the only one bothered by the rather unnecessary misogyny in the original post?
It seems to have done very well ratings-wise for a music documentary, which shows how popular with the public they still are- that's great. But I'm not going to disguise the fact I felt that this got much more wrong than right.
Last edited by JJ88; 10-05-2014 at 02:36 PM.
Steve is not amused
http://www.rollingstone.com/music/ne...ntary-20141005
BG
"When Yes appeared on stage, it was like, the gods appearing from the heavens, deigning to play in front of the people."
^That statement from Steve is going to get as much attention as the documentary did. A PR disaster to more or less exclude him from the show.
Little things point towards Hackett still being considered the outsider of the band. Like Rutherford's recent Ice Bucket challenge on his M&tM's tour when he nominated 'his freinds' Peter Gabriel, Tony Banks & Phil Collins!!!
Firstly, I find myself disagreeing with everyone who said that Tony came off crabby in this documentary -- he's very reserved, but honest. I appreciate that immensely, even when I may not agree with him.
Secondly...
What a wasted opportunity. Yes, there were a few highlights: the Atomic Sunrise Festival footage (though it hardly counts as "unseen"), the interviews with Richard MacPhail and the first US tour promoter, Daryl briefly playing the synth solo from "Firth of Fifth" on guitar (well, ok, *I* thought it was neat...), the brief "discussion" with Phil on the vocal techniques used in "Mama," actually talking about Tony's solo career for once...and that was about it.
The bad, rehashed, and messy far outweighed the good, interesting, and well-thought-out. There seemed to be a lot of reliance on journalists to give the story, particularly in the early days when none of them were there. This was particularly egregious with "Selling England," for which we get literally 30 seconds of a journalist talking about "I Know What I Like." I'm sure Kate Mossman is a fan, and I'm not denying her the right to be; but this smacks of poor editing by the documenteers. Weird omissions like this abounded: ever heard of an album called "Wind & Wuthering"? No? Neither have the people making this documentary. Bill Bruford? Never toured with the band. Mike Rutherford's pre-Mechanics solo career? "Duke" or "ABACAB"? Steve or Ant's solo careers? Ray Wilson who, exactly? These sorts of omissions are inexcusable in a documentary that claims to be about both the band and each member's solo career.
Worse still is that what we do get isn't anything new or thought-provoking. Ant got stage fright. I can't tell you how many times I've heard Peter describe "The Lamb" as a "Pilgrim's Progress." Nobody but Phil sounded good at the auditions. People think it's uncool to like Genesis. Phil was everywhere for about 15 years. Nothing interesting here for anyone who's followed the band for even a few short years, like myself. You've got 5 former members of the band (arguably the "classic lineup") in a room together, probably for the last time ever, so why not show us more than 2 minutes of them talking? Those snippets were by far the most interesting, but they were few and far between.
Also of note is how staggeringly the documentary failed to make any sort of sense as a whole. The theme, ostensibly, was "Together and Apart"; yet, the theme seemed to me to be "A Strange Mish-Mash." Nothing is linked tightly, there aren't any smart segues, and weird edits abound. These make the whole thing feel terribly rushed -- when the "Illegal Alien" video suddenly started with "Invisible Touch" and then "Keep It Dark," I just got terribly confused. The discussion on solo careers seem to flit about the edges of the documentary at times and then suddenly take over. Peter Gabriel gets no mentions for a while, and then his solo career is suddenly of the utmost importance. Why, then, does the documentary not cover the 1982 Milton Keynes reunion? I was convinced that was where they were leading by keeping Peter in the picture, but no. He's just there to be there. Steve is rightly upset that his solo career was left out, especially given that he's currently touring this music!
Which leads me to my final point: the music gets all but ignored here. Mark Billingham rightly points out at the end that "at the end of the day, [the music] is what's important," but you certainly wouldn't know it from watching the previous 89 minutes. With a documentary should come a point, and I just don't feel like this one has anything to say. If it did, it was lost in a sea of bad edits, egregious omissions, and warmed-up leftovers. I don't blame anyone in the band for this, because that would be wrong. But it's just a shame that a band with such a rich history was given the short shrift by a not-very-talented team of filmmakers.
I could see "In The Air Tonight" on Abacab, but it doesn't seem to fit on Duke at all.
Jesus....really?! 'two tarts'?This is my third edit of this posting....
True to BBC form, instead of listening to the band chat nostalgically about about the music, we have the usual fly-by-night non-entities (including two women in this case) telling us that it is ‘OK’ to like Genesis, oh phew, that’s a relief. I’ll bet they wouldn’t know know Little Cynthia was if she came up and whacked them with her mallet.
. Instead, we had to listen to two tarts, nobody has ever heard of, waffle on about how 'complicated' the music is....
.
Oh, I'm sorry...I have a vagina, therefore I'm not entitled to an opinon. Christ on a fucking bike.
All this leaving out of Steve in the doc, isn't this a symptom of even what the prog community has done for the most part over the last 30 years unless Steve does genesis shows? Steve does not get recognition for the amazing quality of his solo work, look at prog magazine top 100 of all time, only one album made it of his!! Steven wilson even said he preferred Steve's work to early Genesis in many interviews. And what do we get in that top 100, tons of albums with no justification to be in any poll.
Geez all these comments about the doc make me want to skip it---as I love Hackett and can't stand when Banks in particular marginalizes him---which he has done in every interview I ever saw--I had hoped that with old age---Banks would have developed some grace---also-----Banks has said on many occasions his personal favorite album was W&W which he and Hackett really shine on---guess he had to change his opinion to Duke with Steve in the room. Sad really.
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