Fish and Scottish independence

[bigjohnwayne]

I used to enjoy Fish's 2nd album "Internal Exile" quite a bit. I remember a strong thread of Scottish nationalism running through that work.

Anyway: I was just reading up on the vote tomorrow, which is too close to call, but with a slight advantage to stay in the United Kingdom. I was wondering if Fish had any opinion on the matter nowadays.


If I was a Scot my gut would probably be for independence but woe be the new state without their own currency. To paraphrase the Untouchables, its like bringing a knife to a gunfight.

[2steves]

This has been an interesting story for me although I don't know too much about the pros and cons of independence. Someone on BBC said it's been PM Cameron's biggest political blunder as he called for the vote thinking it would be a landslide for staying part of Great Britain.

[dpt3]

Fish has declared himself in favor of it on his Facebook page.

[SteveSly]

Fish has declared himself in favor of it on his Facebook page.

Fish's facebook posts are a riot. He basically puts his whole life out there for all to see and is always entertaining in his writing. Well worth friending for those on facebook. He should really write an autobiography as he could easily do it all himself without a ghostwriter.

[ThomasKDye]

Fish has declared himself in favor of it on his Facebook page.

The lyrics of "Internal Exile" left me no doubt on his position.

[firth5th]

[bigjohnwayne]

Fish's essays in the Marillion remasters were great. My favorite line was regarding the writing sessions after Clutching at Straws, which collapsed due to mutual loathing and drugs and ultimately resulted in Fish's exit from the band. Referencing how most of the lyrics from those sessions evolved into lyrics from his first two solo LPs, and how Marillion used the music of those aborted songs for many tracks on Season's End, he wrote something like "nothing was wasted except the band".

[JJ88]

Fish has long been an SNP supporter, as far as I know. As noted he has confirmed his position on this elsewhere.

[Valen]

Fish is not alone in his sentiments - the predictions currently look to be 48% in favour, 52% against independence, but it's so damn close it could go either way.

Not to derail the prog music discussions in this thread, I've posted a new thread in the Way Off Topic section:

http://www.progressiveears.org/forum...ng-us?p=308476

Jump over there if you want to know more.

[Kai]

Referencing how most of the lyrics from those sessions evolved into lyrics from his first two solo LPs, and how Marillion used the music of those aborted songs for many tracks on Season's End, he wrote something like "nothing was wasted except the band".

It was actually Mark Kelly who wrote that one-liner.

I was fascinated to hear the Clutching at Straws bonus disc back in the day, as I hadn't realised how many "seed ideas" for the next Marillion and Fish albums came from the pre- and post-album sessions. Some of Fish's lyrics from these demos re-appeared as late as Suits. I've always regreted that the music for "Exile on Princes Street" never got used.

Sorry for the derailing.

[PeterG]

Scotland iwll vote "No". There are far toom nayp oeple in Scotland who are smart neough to know that Scotland will beomce a third world country if it pslits from the rest of the UK.
For example, what many fail to realise is that Scotland doesn't own the North Sea oil fields nor does it own most of the whisky industry. And while the S & O isle groups may be politically counties of Scotland many of the Shetland and Orkey islanders, including some of their leading politiicans have said they will seek self-govt like the Isle of Man if Scotland votes yes to the split.

[martiprog]

Scotland iwll vote "No". There are far toom nayp oeple in Scotland who are smart neough to know that Scotland will beomce a third world country if it pslits from the rest of the UK.
For example, what many fail to realise is that Scotland doesn't own the North Sea oil fields nor does it own most of the whisky industry. And while the S & O isle groups may be politically counties of Scotland many of the Shetland and Orkey islanders, including some of their leading politiicans have said they will seek self-govt like the Isle of Man if Scotland votes yes to the split.

I fear you may be wrong on this. The "national socialists", led by the Fat Pretender have an upbeat message (even if it is just promising Unicorns), whereas the unionist message has been all doom & gloom. It's easier to sell optimism. What is most worrying is the fact that, regardless of the result, Scotland has been divided and people have been turned against their neighbour. It's great to be proud of your origins, but nationalism builds barriers between people and the world needs less barriers these days.

I respect the right of people to vote as they see fit, and people like Fish to express his opinion, but when it goes towards extremism on EITHER side, and people are fearful of revealing what their view is, it is distasteful. Either way, Scotland will be a very different place to live from tomorrow. I pray we emerge with dignity intact.

[N_Singh]

Let's hear it for the ""Auld Enemy"! The author of Trainspotting lived in Chicago for many years, apparently teaching creative writing at Columbia College". He once hosted a party at his Wicker Park house where everyone was much younger and probably hipper than him. The "highlight" of the show was when a significantly disturbed bike messenger purposefully smashed his head against a glass door, leading to shards, bloodshed, and passably even shards of bloodshed.

At the party, I walked up to our distinguished author and host and took note of his "Carlsburg" sponsored football jersey he was kitted out with. Just noting the shirt sponsor and neglecting the actual crest, I quipped "Liverpool fan."

He shot back an aghast, horrified look. "Hibbs, my man, Hibbs!

Give it up for the "Auld Enemy!!!" "Worse than wankers" because they allowed themselves to be "colonized by wankers,"

[Valen]

I fear you may be wrong on this. The "national socialists", led by the Fat Pretender have an upbeat message (even if it is just promising Unicorns), whereas the unionist message has been all doom & gloom. It's easier to sell optimism. What is most worrying is the fact that, regardless of the result, Scotland has been divided and people have been turned against their neighbour. It's great to be proud of your origins, but nationalism builds barriers between people and the world needs less barriers these days.

I respect the right of people to vote as they see fit, and people like Fish to express his opinion, but when it goes towards extremism on EITHER side, and people are fearful of revealing what their view is, it is distasteful. Either way, Scotland will be a very different place to live from tomorrow. I pray we emerge with dignity intact.

Oh come on! It's not as extreme as you're making it out to be. Most folk will simply cast their vote and then go about their business.

Everywhere I've been these past days, people on both sides are excited and engaged with this, and are having mature discussions, neighbours included.

Even the socially deprived who feel abandoned by politicians and who never vote are stepping up to have their say. As I type this, one fifth of the entire electorate have already cast their vote within the first three hours - that's a remarkable development!

Of course there are bound to be a few idiots that go over the score, but they're in a minority. The press love a good scare story, and tend to play up some of this stuff.

Scotland won't suddenly change overnight, so please, have a little faith in your countrymen.

[Scott Bails]

I've only followed this casually, but it's impressive that so many have registered to vote in this. Voter apathy in the U.S. is rampant.

[SteveSly]

Here is what Fish posted on Facebook:





What is going on up here in Scotland now and what has been going on for a very long time and what will be decided today I cannot ignore and it would be an absolute lie if I chose to pretend it did not affect me and chose to avoid it for “commercial” reasons.


I was born in Edinburgh, brought up in Dalkeith, spent my first 23 years in this country ( apart from 1 in Cumbria) and returned in 1988, age 30, to spend the next 26 years living here after 7 years living in the South of England.

I have voted SNP all my life, was a card carrying member in the 90’s, have never disguised or hidden my Scottish nationalism and wrote a song called “Slainthe Mhath” on an album called “Clutching at Straws” that sold well over a million units about the lack of confidence we have as a nation and the sometimes under achieving nature and the dark psyche of the Scottish nature which can manifest itself in a resignatory characteristic voiced in that lyric.

No one questioned my nationality then and I can remember crying as I played that song back to my father back in 87 knowing he had voted differently to me for years and had been shafted by banks and the early versions of corporates that had left him with the shreds of a dream that both he and my Grandfather had for the family garage business and which had taken him close to bankruptcy.

In recent weeks I have had passionate debates with my parents which have resulted in long bitter silences and early endings to visits. The subject is now unspoken. They are rooted in their beliefs and I respect them for that.

Today my daughter, who is half German, and I will both go to the polling station with the same intent.

I am between a rock and a very hard place. I declared myself unavailable for general media interviews on the subject as it is with high probability I will move to Germany in 2 years to join my partner of 4 years and her young family and did not want to be seen to be hypocritical if the “Yes” vote is successful and I left in what will most inevitably be a difficult state of transition.

I have involved myself with Facebook interactions and have tried to maintain as much of a diplomatic stance as is possible given my feelings allowing debate and comment, moderating when it got out of hand and became abusive on both sides of the opinion, but letting the comments flow on what is the most exciting, vibrant and engaging political topic we have had in the United Kingdom for years! I cannot remember Scotland being so energised.

My dilemma? My youthful romantic dream , later replaced throughout the years by something a lot more substantial, and eventually incarnated as in what some may think is an unrealistic ambition of being part of an independent nation against current personal circumstances.

“Yes” means, in most probability, economic uncertainty for a while and personally being perhaps unable to sell a property and finance a move to Germany for intended retirement and more importantly a life with my partner of 4 years to write the books I have waited to write in self-financed relative solitude.

My dream and hope of so many years for my country would come true but my personal circumstances would be compromised and my own plans for our life together will have to be rethought. My partner and I have both discussed this at length and she supports my decision as we both know we will be together somewhere no matter what. She totally understands my feelings and the subject of the referendum dominated our recent few days together in Karlsruhe.

A “ No” vote will have repercussions and inevitably lead to some changes but in the great scheme of things I believe that after the dust has settled we will return to carrying on as “normal” and although there will be some lingering resentment the establishment and Westminster will continue to dominate the United Kingdom and we will head down a road I for one don’t particularly want to travel as I personally don’t agree with it. It will in all probability hasten my considered move to Germany.

I am voting “yes” today because I can and I believe it is for the best for Scotland and a much needed shake up of a stagnant and corrupt political system in the UK. Others disagree and I respect them for that as the decisions all of us have had to make in recent weeks have been difficult.

I am not voting because of any anti English sentiment, having probably more English friends than from any other country including my own. I am not voting for commercial reasons or financial gain and I am not voting because of some romantic historical notion based in our history.

I am not going to hide my feelings or beliefs no matter how wrong some of you may think I am as they are a very important part of my character and make me what I am as a writer and a singer and an artist.

No matter what the result I will not be using the stage as a pulpit on the next tour as what is done today is done today and I will respect the outcome no matter what.

I hope for the sake of my nation that my fellow countrymen and women do the same. After the votes are cast and the results are declared we need to carry on together and get on with our lives and do the best that we can to make our world a better place to live in for both us and our children.

This is a huge decision for many to make on so many different levels and I urge everyone to respect each other for that and remain dignified despite the disappointment that many will feel either way the vote falls.

Slainthe Mhath

Yours sincerely

Derek W Dick aka Fish

[Esoteric]

I disagree with Fish but respect anyones idea to say what they feel/think and they should be able to do without fear of physical violence to person or property.If they vote "Yes" though I am looking for a bookmaker to take a bet for £200 that some kind of bail out needed within three years. problem is they won't be in the EU to bail them out and Im pretty sure the remaining Britain will not either. Its a very radical step.

[JKL2000]

If Scotland votes Yes, I will celebrate tonight by drinking the cheapest Scotch I can find.

[moecurlythanu]

Scotland iwll vote "No". There are far toom nayp oeple in Scotland who are smart neough to know that Scotland will beomce a third world country if it pslits from the rest of the UK.
For example, what many fail to realise is that Scotland doesn't own the North Sea oil fields nor does it own most of the whisky industry. And while the S & O isle groups may be politically counties of Scotland many of the Shetland and Orkey islanders, including some of their leading politiicans have said they will seek self-govt like the Isle of Man if Scotland votes yes to the split.

Officer! Officer!

Arrest Trane for impersonating an Irishman!

[Jimmy Giant]

Thanks for the Fish post Steve. I wouldn't have seen it not being on FaceSpace.
I understand them wanting to get away from the royal corruption, but don't cut off your nose to spite your face. If they had a solid financial plan to get through that it might make more sense. Maybe they can work toward that and then have another vote in a few years. Peace to Scotland though. Hopefully there won't be nasty aftermath. I'm assuming the yes vote will win by a few points. We can't get get any numbers until its over a little later today.

[tom unbound]

I'm certainly no expert, but the independence thing seems to have worked out OK for the USA, Canada, Australia, India, New Zealand,......

[Esoteric]

A very different situation Tom, if Scotland opt for independence then they are out the EU for a good while too, this causes all sorts of complications with regards to where they can work, study etc , and all departments have to be set up from scratch at extraordinarily considerable expense, major corporations too based in Scotland but with most business in the rest of the uk will likely relocate back to England or Wales.

[Sirius]

If Scotland votes Yes, I will celebrate tonight by drinking the cheapest Scotch I can find.

Probably a Scotch owned by a non Scottish company.
Johnnie Walker is made by Diageo, the worlds largest producer of alcoholic beverages, which is English.
Chivas Regal is made by Pernod, which is French.
Dewar's White Label is made by Bacardi with headquarters in Bermuda.
And so on.

[moecurlythanu]

Probably a Scotch owned by a non Scottish company.
Johnnie Walker is made by Diageo, the worlds largest producer of alcoholic beverages, which is English.
Chivas Regal is made by Pernod, which is French.
Dewar's White Label is made by Bacardi with headquarters in Bermuda.
And so on.

And the moral of the story?

Single Malts. Preferably an Islay.

Stay thirsty, my friends.

[wideopenears]

I'll have a wee dram tonight, regardless, in honor of the fact that so many Scots care, either way--the astounding registration numbers are great news, no matter the result.