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Thread: What is the relationship between prog and psychedelic music?

  1. #26
    Member Camelogue's Avatar
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    They started dating but a "relationship" was never consummated.

  2. #27
    Being a developmental stage or transition into Progressive Rock, Psychedelic set the Prog plan into motion with the usage of experimentation. In the analog age ..bands/artists, experimented with unorthodox recording techniques. The breaking of glass, Beaver & Krause wondering around parks and zoo's with small tape recorders..recording environmental sounds, children's voices , etc. or placing kitty litter on a kettle drum surrounded by microphones and slamming the drum with mallets produced the sound of fireworks when played back in the studio. Easily produced in the digital age by pressing a button. Lack of technology forced musicians to experiment and work harder to create something unique. The mellotron used by The Beatles featured tape recordings of an audience clapping, the voice of Adolf Hitler, mad laughter, etc. This was very confusing for listeners who had the impression in 68' that all tape effects were manually produced by premature steps of experimentation Only snippets or excerpts of Classical music combined with heavy "Big Muff" distorted guitar formed the actual idea to take the music steps further , later being catagorized as Progressive Rock. Elements of Psychedelic style music existed in Prog and especially during the early 70's. Simply a introduction to experimenting further in the early 70's to create a new kind of music...although bands like The Nice, Moody Blues, were considered Art Rock in the 60's, they truly weren't far from what was later labeled Progressive Rock regarding the sound, approach in composition and the kind of poetry discovered in the lyrics. It is always difficult to pin-point exact change in music. For example ...music in 1970 may have changed quickly regarding it's structure..however because of the natural transition of musicians/human life, there may have been a handful of bands in 69' that DID NOT differ all that much from new bands in 1970 and so on...therefore creating in depth research for fanatics who are interested in detail and desire to make analogy. All that observation has to be carefully thought out. Did anyone on earth write an instrumental "Space Rock' piece prior to Syd Barrett's "Interstellar Overdrive"? or was that the first attempt at Space Rock?

  3. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Enid View Post
    Did anyone on earth write an instrumental "Space Rock' piece prior to Syd Barrett's "Interstellar Overdrive"? or was that the first attempt at Space Rock?
    Without question - and still one of the greatest rock songs ever made, IMHO:


    Closely followed by:


    And:
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  4. #29
    Long hair and drugs.

  5. #30
    Can somebody name an instance of meticulously composed and arranged, precisely executed psychedelic music?

    I know the Beatles approach this, but once you get to "Being for the Benefit of Mr. Kite" and "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds," it just seems like straight Progrock to me.

    My perception is once someone takes elements of psychedelic, blues, country, classical, jazz etc. and integrates them into more deliberate compositional structures, it turns Progressive.

  6. #31
    Last edited by Modry Effekt; 09-09-2014 at 06:17 PM.

  7. #32
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    SS, when was that Great Society live recording of 'White Rabbit'? That has a long, guitar-heavy instrumental introduction.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by undergroundrailroad View Post
    Can somebody name an instance of meticulously composed and arranged, precisely executed psychedelic music?

    I know the Beatles approach this, but once you get to "Being for the Benefit of Mr. Kite" and "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds," it just seems like straight Progrock to me.

    My perception is once someone takes elements of psychedelic, blues, country, classical, jazz etc. and integrates them into more deliberate compositional structures, it turns Progressive.
    I'm not sure whether any of these labels were thought about at the time. But there were singles like 'Good Vibrations', 'Macarthur Park', 'My World Fell Down', 'Eloise', 'Excerpt From A Teenage Opera', 'Sky Pilot' etc. Not all of these are seen as 'psychedelic' but that sense of sonic adventure is on all of these, and all of them are mini-opuses. This is absolutely one of my favourite periods for music...outside of the MOR ballads (several of which did top the UK charts at the time, sadly!) there's accessible creativity everywhere you look.
    Last edited by JJ88; 09-09-2014 at 06:28 PM.

  9. #34

  10. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by undergroundrailroad View Post
    Can somebody name an instance of meticulously composed and arranged, precisely executed psychedelic music?
    This lot of Welsh acid rockers:



    Who were influenced by this lot of San Fran acid rockers:



    And this:



    And too much more to include here. But yes, I basically agree that by definition rock music with a main emphasis on on the dynamic of varying structure gets to be "progressive".
    Last edited by Scrotum Scissor; 09-09-2014 at 08:01 PM.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  11. #36

  12. #37
    Joe Docko "Challenges" Cipolllina.


  13. #38
    Progga mogrooves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enid View Post
    The Nice, Moody Blues, were considered Art Rock in the 60's, they truly weren't far from what was later labeled Progressive Rock regarding the sound
    Both essentially "proto-Prog," imo; one foot in psych, the other striding forward toward what would become known as Art Rock, and later Prog.

    Quote Originally Posted by undergroundrailroad View Post
    Can somebody name an instance of meticulously composed and arranged, precisely executed psychedelic music?
    1967:



    "Being for the Benefit of Mr. Kite" and "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds," it just seems like straight Progrock to me
    Straight-up psych, to me, progressive but not "Prog."
    Hell, they ain't even old-timey ! - Homer Stokes

  14. #39
    I'm here for the moosic NogbadTheBad's Avatar
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    I'm with mogrooves on this one. Nice posts everyone. Just like the good old days.
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  15. #40
    Steamhammer - Penumbra

  16. #41
    Member Mythos's Avatar
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    I like long modern psych songs, especially when properly mixed with the proper blend of space rock, krautrock, prog and stoner!

    As opposed to the 60's style, short little psychy-bubblegum-pop songs...

  17. #42
    Member Jay.Dee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Camelogue View Post
    They started dating but a "relationship" was never consummated.
    It is because they were raised in different cultures.

    Psychedelia infancy ca. 1962:



    Prog infancy ca. 1962:


  18. #43
    Recently Resurrected zombywoof's Avatar
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    I sometimes wonder if there really is a distinction - and if there is, do I actually prefer psych to prog? I think I do ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by undergroundrailroad View Post
    Can somebody name an instance of meticulously composed and arranged, precisely executed psychedelic music?
    I'd say Steve Hillage's 'Fish Rising' is the best example of a 'good all the way through' psychedelic album, even though it had the benefit of hindsight being released in 1974, I'd say it is more based in the hippy-trippy world of psychedelia than in prog. Plenty of weird sounds and 'far out' lyrics but well composed, produced and arranged.

  20. #45
    Member No Pride's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calabasas_Trafalgar View Post
    Psych was musicians with interesting ideas who hadn't quite learned to play their instruments and used a lot of studio effects to cover those deficiencies. Prog was after they learned to play.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay.Dee View Post
    Oh my dear...
    I don't think Calabasas is that far off the mark.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by undergroundrailroad View Post
    Can somebody name an instance of meticulously composed and arranged, precisely executed psychedelic music?
    ... and that's why.

  22. #47
    Member Jay.Dee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by No Pride View Post
    ... and that's why.
    György Ligeti's "Lux Aeterna" says no.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iVYu5lyX5M

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay.Dee View Post
    György Ligeti's "Lux Aeterna" says no.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iVYu5lyX5M
    That's pretty darn cool, but is it psychedelic? I suppose it is as much as "Mars, Bringer of War" by Holst is prog. But we're talking about rock. I do think psychedelic morphed into prog in the way that fish morphed into amphibians; it was a natural evolution. Psych's goal was to create a type of rock music that was conscious expanding and experimental, but it was achieved more through creative use of studio effects and assorted quirky weirdnesses. Prog basically had a similar goal, but the methodology had changed to incorporate an expanded musical vocabulary, both in compositional prowess and increased instrumental proficiency. In the late '60s, there were plenty of examples of the music in mid-transition; The Nice and The Moody Blues are a good example; another was the short-lived American band, Touch. And, of course, The Mothers of Invention.

  24. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by No Pride View Post
    That's pretty darn cool, but is it psychedelic? I suppose it is as much as "Mars, Bringer of War" by Holst is prog. But we're talking about rock. I do think psychedelic morphed into prog in the way that fish morphed into amphibians; it was a natural evolution. Psych's goal was to create a type of rock music that was conscious expanding and experimental, but it was achieved more through creative use of studio effects and assorted quirky weirdnesses. Prog basically had a similar goal, but the methodology had changed to incorporate an expanded musical vocabulary, both in compositional prowess and increased instrumental proficiency. In the late '60s, there were plenty of examples of the music in mid-transition; The Nice and The Moody Blues are a good example; another was the short-lived American band, Touch. And, of course, The Mothers of Invention.

  25. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay.Dee View Post

    Prog infancy ca. 1962:
    Nice one. Here's another Christmas record from the same time that has to rate as almost-prog...Amazing arrangement, and includes a theme that ELP fans will recognize:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAW_sqqEIrU

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