Carefully Introducing Frank Zappa to a Friend

[ronmac]

Why are you trying to have his fun for him? You got him started, now let him continue the journey on his own.

But Zappa, falling onto the wrong one early on can definitely turn away some prospects.

Exactly. I'm not trying to have his fun for him. But, I know this guy well. He's young, very smart and not a partier like many of us are or were. He's very open-minded and interested in hearing great material that he may have missed. It would be a crying shame to have his only impressions be Bobby Brown or Dancing Fool and have him miss the true genius of Frank.

Maybe the young man is a bit of a prude and found stuff like Dyna-Moe Hum to be distasteful, which of course it is, but that's part of the fun!

No, he's not a prude. But, he also didn't live through it all like many of us did. He's a product of a different time. Observing FZ from the outside via the wrong samplings will turn this guy's genuine interest into eye-rolling and "I don't get it."

Could you imagine if one's only exposure was "We're Only In It for the Money" and "Cruising with Ruben and the Jets"?

[Reid]

Could you imagine if one's only exposure was "We're Only In It for the Money" and "Cruising with Ruben and the Jets"?

A moot point in the age of the internet. And what's wrong with being exposed to ...Money first? It's a wonderful album.

[No Pride]

A moot point in the age of the internet. And what's wrong with being exposed to ...Money first? It's a wonderful album.

Agreed! Perhaps Zappa's most memorable album melodically.

[Plasmatopia]

Just keep changing the CD-R sleeve with the titles of various FZ albums, but keep putting Overnight Sensation in the sleeve until he comes back and says "okay, I just realized that the songs are more than a bunch of goofy lyrics...I'm a guitarist...a musician...and I've now realized that the musicianship involved here is fantastic. I don't really care for it, but I see why it's amazing. Got anything else by him?".

Only then is your work done.

[zombywoof]

Yeah, those are some great live albums!


It is... and Zappa's guitar playing reached a new level at that point; he's tearing it up on that album!

Maybe the young man is a bit of a prude and found stuff like Dyna-Moe Hum to be distasteful, which of course it is, but that's part of the fun!

What's not to love about 50/50, Zomby Woof, and Montana? Killer guitar work! Then there's I'm The Slime, Dirty Love, also killer. Dyno-moe-hum is a bit overplayed, but it's still a masterpiece of audio manipulation. Then there's that bass line - good Gawd, ain't it funky now?! That just leaves Camraillio Brillo - great, great track; love the horn part.

[walt]

There's some killer guitar on that "Ahead Of Their Time" clip someone posted upthread.Zappa rocks the shit on wah wah.

[ronmac]

A moot point in the age of the internet. And what's wrong with being exposed to ...Money first? It's a wonderful album.

You never get a second chance to make a first impression. In fact, it happened already and I'm trying to undo it. Re-read the OP. He came to me with the "I don't get it" response. So, I took the initiative to redirect him toward something that would be more accessible to him than "I got a forty dollar bill say you can't make me cum," or "Titties and Beer." Like I tell my clients, "You have to understand your audience before you try to sell them anything."

Re: the age of the Internet, yes you are correct, it's all there. But, perhaps he's not the one to sit in front of his laptop and wants to enjoy it in the car or on the home stereo. That is the case here.

What's not to love about 50/50, Zomby Woof, and Montana? Killer guitar work! Then there's I'm The Slime, Dirty Love, also killer. Dyno-moe-hum is a bit overplayed, but it's still a masterpiece of audio manipulation. Then there's that bass line - good Gawd, ain't it funky now?! That just leaves Camraillio Brillo - great, great track; love the horn part.

To you, maybe. To others, maybe not. Once again, to my earlier point when someone referred to Apostrophe and OS as "his best." Well, to some it may be. To others, it might be Hot Rats. To others, it might be Freak Out. To others, it might be something totally different. Personally, I think "Dinah Moe Humm" and "Montana" are just plain stupid.

It's too easy to project our preferences onto others, but it doesn't really work. Especially with Frank Zappa's catalogue. If so, my kids would "get" all the music I listen to and I'd be enjoying rap.

[MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER]

the narration can be annoying, but that is typical of Zappa.
That is why many serious musicians don't take him seriously. It may be their loss, but it is something Frank did that turned off many serious musicians.

I consider the man a true *genius* of Progressive Rock composition
it's a shame that I cant listen to 95% of his work due to his sense of humor of a 7 year old boy

[Reginod]

Thing-Fish oughta do it.

Seriously, One Size Fits All or Grand Wazoo.

[zombywoof]

Thing-Fish oughta do it.

Sometimes I wonder if Thing-Fish is the only album FZ detractors have heard. Terrible, terrible record. It may just be the worst album I've ever heard!!

[ThomasKDye]

Once again, to my earlier point when someone referred to Apostrophe and OS as "his best."

For the second time, I'm just saying what I've been told. I once suggested on a different forum that the Zappa newbie try "Strictly Commercial." At least that's a damn smorgasbord of what he had to offer. But a bunch of self-righteous Zappaphiles (and some of them can be pricks) tore that suggestion apart and said those two albums were a MUST, and that any other starting point was bullshit. I checked out at that point, which is what I should have done from the start with this thread.

[zombywoof]

For the second time, I'm just saying what I've been told. I once suggested on a different forum that the Zappa newbie try "Strictly Commercial." At least that's a damn smorgasbord of what he had to offer. But a bunch of self-righteous Zappaphiles (and some of them can be pricks) tore that suggestion apart and said those two albums were a MUST, and that any other starting point was bullshit. I checked out at that point, which is what I should have done from the start with this thread.

I started with Apostrophe and I was hooked immediately. I don't know why. Later I heard We're Only in it for the Money and I thought it was total garbage; how wrong was I, it's now one of my favorites!

[ronmac]

For the second time, I'm just saying what I've been told.

Yeah, I realize that. I'm told a lot of things that I take with a grain of salt. My earlier point was simply stating that I can't see how anyone can judge what is his "best." His catalog is too eclectic for such a label, IMO. Favorite? Sure. Best? Too subjective. If he did everything the same, I suppose you could find some way to gauge what his best material was. Unless record sales are the barometer, which we know they aren't, I can't see how anyone can objectively call any album his best. It's my understanding that his best-selling album was "Sheik Yerbouti." Well, I certainly wouldn't consider that his best.

[ronmac]

I started with Apostrophe and I was hooked immediately. I don't know why. Later I heard We're Only in it for the Money and I thought it was total garbage; how wrong was I, it's now one of my favorites!

What if you would have started with "We're Only in it for the Money" and assumed it was representative of his catalog?

[zombywoof]

What if you would have started with "We're Only in it for the Money" and assumed it was representative of his catalog?

Hard to tell. I tend to be the kind of person who will listen to albums multiple times, even if I don't understand them. Especially if I don't understand them. It's part of my make-up, I guess, I have a compulsion to try to figure out things that I don't understand. So, it's likely that I'd have eventually acquired the taste for Money; it's the way I am.

[NogbadTheBad]

What if you would have started with "We're Only in it for the Money" and assumed it was representative of his catalog?

That, Apostrophe and OS were my first three, thankfully I bought Hot Rats next.

[Jay.Dee]

I consider the man a true *genius* of Progressive Rock composition
it's a shame that I cant listen to 95% of his work due to his sense of humor of a 7 year old boy

Switch to the live stuff assembled and released AFTER his death. Zappa used to tinker a lot with live tapes, patchworking various instrumental bits and mixing them with his version of commedia dell'arte. Major chunks of instrumental music were usually left off in the process. The stream of new releases from Barfko-Swill totally redefined my perception of Frank Zappa's music, especially that I had never been too much into sofas, yellow snow, walking mountains, brown bobbies and that kind of stuff.

On new live tapes that get released now on his family label, this side of his work is really a margin. I sometimes think that his knack for clowning, so dominant in his original discography, might have been a sort of adaptive strategy to the working conditions of the music industry of the rock age. Artistic integrity and vision were all too frequently compromised to meet the tastes and expectations of mass audience and, as the years progressed, of music press. The latter fanatically tried to purge any complexity or explorations that could have turned away from rock a large flock of newly won listeners, and in turn endanger their own comfy middleman position. Pigs do not need dogs if there are no sheep to herd.

Most archival live recordings released these days had no chance to see the light of day back then in their current form. Only the minority of fans who had witnessed live gigs of legendary rock performers (or had access to bootlegs or tape trading) knew the truth, the majority learnt music from industry-sanctioned releases. This is also the reason of occasional panic attacks among rock fans, whenever confronted with the music beyond their comfort zones established by studio-polished mass-targeted product and immaculate arena shows.

I think that today we, outsider fans, are still in the process of re-evaluating and re-assessing the legacy of rock classic era, with an avalanche of excellent archival releases that uncover the forgotten foundations of the pharaonic palace, which was build upon them. Henry Cow, King Crimson, Soft Machine, Grateful Dead, Jimi Hendrix and many others could be seen in an entirely new light thanks to the laborious effort of musicians, families and enthusiasts, giving back to listeners the music recorded without the watchful eye of the music industry. Frank Zappa definitely belongs to this category, so I do suggest giving him another chance, focusing this time on new archival releases.

[zombywoof]

^ Very, very good post.

[ronmac]

^ Very, very good post.

+1

[ThomasKDye]

What if you would have started with "We're Only in it for the Money" and assumed it was representative of his catalog?

Not to go massively OT, but a friend gave me Jethro Tull's "Stormwatch," and I didn't have much interest in JT for a long time afterward.. and then I got "Minstrel in the Gallery" some three years later, and then I was hooked.

Zappa was the same. I got "Strictly Commercial" and thought, "Eh, this is okay," and never thought a thing about it until some four years later when I met a friend who had a huge Zappa collection. It was "You Are What You Is" that made me more than a remote fan into a casual fan. (I'm not hardcore, but what I like from Zappa I really like.)

I don't think it's a matter of "Quick, strike while the iron is hot!" There's always a chance at any time that someone will reassess their opinion of something.

[NogbadTheBad]

So One Size Fits All or Sleep Dirt?

[zombywoof]

So One Size Fits All or Sleep Dirt?

Personally, I think you'd like Sleep Dirt more. Sleep Dirt is 100% instrumental (at least it is on the original vinyl release and the 2012 remaster - the only one in print) and showcases the more serious aspects of Zappa's compositions. One Size Fits All definately has FZ's funny lyrics, but the music is still great. Most people will tell you to get that one (it's a classic), but I think Sleep Dirt is more your thing.

[MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER]

The first half of Sleep Dirt is great... it tends toward meandering after that though

Hot Rats
Waka Jawaka
Burnt Weenie Sandwich
King Kong (filed under Ponty)
all the Shut Up And Play/Guitar cut and paste jobbers are fun too

[Hobo Chang Ba]

So One Size Fits All or Sleep Dirt?

One Size Fits All

then Sleep Dirt.

[Watanabe]

I wouldn't overdo the whole "zappa is a genius and you just have to let it all sink in" kind of schtick...

Just give him most of the pre-74\75'ish stuff and have the faith that the lad will give the albums a chance and come to his own conclusions.If he gets into it then he can look at further stuff on his own, but i wouldn't start out with any of that later 70s or 80s stuff.