Yes: America and Bruford

[calyx]

Fragile was recorded circa September-Oct 1971 and release in November. America was recorded in February 1972, just prior to the Close to the Edge sessions, so it really belongs to the CttE period, not Fragile

Not quite accurate - it's more like halfway between them.
"Fragile" was recorded between mid-August and mid-September (concerts resumed on September 24, before which there was a week or so of rehearsals).
"America", as you state, was recorded in early February 1972. But that's not "just prior" to "Close To The Edge", which was recorded throughout June into July 1972. Yes were on a North American tour in February/March, reconvening for working sessions in April/May then entering Advision Studios sometime in late May or early June.

In a way, "America" even belongs to "The Yes Album" period, since the arrangement was put together during the writing sessions for "The Yes Album", and was only performed live until Tony Kaye's departure. Rick Wakeman had never played it when they decided to record it, and apparently found it too much work as Bruford plays the Mellotron chords on the final section. Wakeman only got to play it during the first couple of shows after Alan White had joined, then it was shelved and was never played again until the SLO shows in 1996.

[Firth]

Fragile was recorded circa September-Oct 1971 and release in November. America was recorded in February 1972, just prior to the Close to the Edge sessions, so it really belongs to the CttE period, not Fragile

other personal notes that may require confirmation:
- I've been told that the original full length release, on 'The New Age of Atlantic' has a 'drier' mix on the verses, than what appeared on Yesterdays and all other released versions since. (I actually have the NAoA LP but put my turntable out to pasture long ago, so I can't confirm)
- for some reason, starting with the DVD-A version, all the remasters or new mixes of this have been horrendously loud

When you indicate loud, are you saying clipped? When I listened in 5.1 to Cans and Brahms on the DVD-A remix, the power in those organ notes is so extreme that for them to exist there has to be no clipping. I wish to listen to Wilson's remix for the difference. Wilson is a fanatic for linearity.

[Sylvan]

If I'm not mistaken, the Bodast album wasn't even released until years later. I gather that was one of those things where they recorded the album, but either couldn't get a record deal or something went wonky with the negotiations or whatever, and so the group broke up.

I've only heard the Bodast and Tomorrow tracks that were used on the Mothballs compilation, but there are indeed some good tracks in there. I suppose it's common knowledge by now that the last section of Starship Trooper was actually derived from a Bodast track called Nether Street. Not just the chord progression, but also at least some of the guitar solo was already there on Nether Street. And I'm sure I heard the intro from One Step Closer (from the first Asia album) on one of the other tracks from either Tomorrow or Bodast.

You are correct. It was released in the early 1980s. I still have my vinyl copy of Bodast Featuring Steve Howe with the photo of the guy digging up the master tapes on the cover.

[bRETT]

"Close To The Edge", which was recorded throughout June into July 1972. .

Interestingly the America/Total Mass Retain single was released in mid-July, so the latter must have been hot off the presses.

[calyx]

Interestingly the America/Total Mass Retain single was released in mid-July, so the latter must have been hot off the presses.

That's interesting. It seems "Siberian Khatru" was recorded first as the master tape shown in the recent reissue is dated June 3rd. According to the Wil Romano book, which seems to have gotten its recording info from Mr Bruford (who is generous with the use of his diaries, as I can acknowledge since he patiently went through his diaries to check all sorts of dates for my Canterbury book), there were sessions on June 1-8, June 11-18 and June 25-29, but they were still at Advision in mid-July as reported in the NME, but that was possibly for mixing. Bruford's oft-repeated claim that they spent 3 months in the studio is an exaggeration, as they were back touring North America by late July.

[ssully]

[QUOTE=calyx;708569]Not quite accurate - it's more like halfway between them.
"Fragile" was recorded between mid-August and mid-September (concerts resumed on September 24, before which there was a week or so of rehearsals).

Tony Kayes last gig with them was Aug 21. Are you saying they'd recorded some of Fragile already? Chris Welch's book has Wakeman first jamming with Yes in September (in a room 'over a brothel in Shepherd's Bush') -- sessions that spawned 'Roundabout' and 'Heart of the Sunrise'-- and then a first gig with RW on Sept 24. I added 'Oct' because it's always possible there were later dubs.

"America", as you state, was recorded in early February 1972. But that's not "just prior" to "Close To The Edge", which was recorded throughout June into July 1972. Yes were on a North American tour in February/March, reconvening for working sessions in April/May then entering Advision Studios sometime in late May or early June.

Welch also suggests that the America sessions (he counts two, on Feb 1 and 2) actually coincided with the earliest sessions for CttE.

In a way, "America" even belongs to "The Yes Album" period, since the arrangement was put together during the writing sessions for "The Yes Album", and was only performed live until Tony Kaye's departure. Rick Wakeman had never played it when they decided to record it, and apparently found it too much work as Bruford plays the Mellotron chords on the final section. Wakeman only got to play it during the first couple of shows after Alan White had joined, then it was shelved and was never played again until the SLO shows in 1996.

The 'America' cover does of course belong to the Tony Kaye era but the sound of the recorded version is emphatically Fragile/CttE era -- with Squire's bass sound being more CttE than Fragile. To me, this song belongs with CttE (as the single did, when it was the B-side of 'Total Mass Retain').

[ssully]

When you indicate loud, are you saying clipped? When I listened in 5.1 to Cans and Brahms on the DVD-A remix, the power in those organ notes is so extreme that for them to exist there has to be no clipping. I wish to listen to Wilson's remix for the difference. Wilson is a fanatic for linearity.

I mean compressed and loud and I mean 'America' particularly. Even Wilson's remixes (stereo and 5.1) of it sound much louder than the other tracks on the album.

(And none of these 'Americas' sound as good as the original mix and original mastering, to me.)

[ssully]

Interestingly the America/Total Mass Retain single was released in mid-July, so the latter must have been hot off the presses.

Tnen the 'America' single version appears to have preceded its full length release (The New Age of Atlantic, Nov. 1972) as well. Interesting.

[calyx]

Tony Kaye's last gig with them was Aug 21.

No, it was on July 31 (Crystal Palace). This was exactly a week after the last North American date. Yes had already secretly met with Wakeman in the week inbetween, as there is an anecdote of Brian Lane boasting about "stealing Wakeman from the Strawbs" backstage at Crystal Palace not realising that an A&M executive was also present, narrowly avoiding disastrous consequences.

Chris Welch's book has Wakeman first jamming with Yes in September (in a room 'over a brothel in Shepherd's Bush')

Welch is incorrect. There are photos of the "Fragile" sessions at Advision dated August 20. Wakeman himself has cited August 1 as the date for his joining, which would make some sense being the day after Kaye's last gig.

Welch also suggests that the America sessions (he counts two, on Feb 1 and 2) actually coincided with the earliest sessions for CttE.

Again, incorrect. That these were sessions for "America" and nothing else is well documented by press clippings of the period. "Close To The Edge" wasn't even written at this point - the writing sessions at Una Billings took place AFTER the band had returned from the North American tour which ended in Boston in late March.

The 'America' cover does of course belong to the Tony Kaye era but the sound of the recorded version is emphatically Fragile/CttE era -- with Squire's bass sound being more CttE than Fragile.

Well, maybe true re: Squire, but Wakeman merely duplicates Kaye's organ parts, largely identical to those played by Kaye on the Crystal Palace gig as documented on the "Word Is Live" boxed set.

[ssully]

Again, incorrect. That these were sessions for "America" and nothing else is well documented by press clippings of the period. "Close To The Edge" wasn't even written at this point - the writing sessions at Una Billings took place AFTER the band had returned from the North American tour which ended in Boston in late March.

Welch I think calls the May sessions at Una Billings 'rehearsals', preceding the recording sessions proper in June/July -- in any case the May work may be what Bruford is referring to when he complains of 'three months'.

Well, maybe true re: Squire, but Wakeman merely duplicates Kaye's organ parts, largely identical to those played by Kaye on the Crystal Palace gig as documented on the "Word Is Live" boxed set.

Not quite...there's some tinkly celesta-like keyboard in there that Kaye is very unlikely to have ever played, as well as piano.

Howe is also well into the country pickin' sort of sound with his hollow body that he would use on Close to the Edge.

[calyx]

Welch I think calls the May sessions at Una Billings 'rehearsals', preceding the recording sessions proper in June/July -- in any case the May work may be what Bruford is referring to when he complains of 'three months'.

Well, they were pretty much what happened the following year with "Tales" at Manticore Studios - Anderson and Howe turned up with demos of stuff they'd written while on the road, and the band developed arrangements, then rehearsed them. So I guess you could call the early part of that process 'writing sessions', and the later part 'rehearsals' once the material was more or less ready for recording.

Again, Bruford appears to be exaggerating the state of 'unfinishedness' of the material. While there were big gaps in "And You And I" waiting to be filled (as heard in the 'work in progress' version), Squire has said that "Close To The Edge" was rehearsed as one piece, and only recorded in sections for practical reasons - not, as Bruford has often claimed, because the band basically didn't know where they were going and made it up as they went along.

Not quite...there's some tinkly celesta-like keyboard in there that Kaye is very unlikely to have ever played, as well as piano. Howe is also well into the country pickin' sort of sound with his hollow body that he would use on Close to the Edge.

Sure, but these, to me, are details in the overall picture. The arrangement is not fundamentally altered from the 1970-71 versions, except for sections being left out. There would have been little time to change it anyway - it was probably rehearsed in the days preceding the sessions after not being performed for six months, with Wakeman probably learning his parts from the Crystal Palace tape of the band performing it with Kaye.

[Paulrus]

The arrangement is not fundamentally altered from the 1970-71 versions, except for sections being left out. There would have been little time to change it anyway - it was probably rehearsed in the days preceding the sessions after not being performed for six months, with Wakeman probably learning his parts from the Crystal Palace tape of the band performing it with Kaye.

Not fundamentally altered? The parts and pieces are generally the same but arrangement-wise the two are miles apart. I was coincidentally just re-listening to the version of "America" from The Word Is Live and I was struck yet again at how much they streamlined it for the released version. I wonder how much of that came from Eddie Offord acting as an objective listener. All of the changes they made were improvements, IMO, even if it trimmed 6 minutes off the song (probably because it trimmed 6 minutes off of it!)

And I'll come down on the side of the song fitting in more with the Fragile era than CTTE. It's a drier sounding recording, instead of the reverb-fest that CTTE became. Plus it's pretty close to a live performance without much of the overdubs and atmospherics that CTTE received. So closer to something like "Long Distance Runaround" or even "Roundabout" in that regard. And it flat out rocks, which to me is more of a trademark of the earlier band (besides being Yes' last classic Franken-cover!)

[strawberrybrick]

Wasn't America added to the Fragile DVD-A from 2001?

[Nearfest2]

Wasn't America added to the Fragile DVD-A from 2001?

Yes. (See what I did there?)

[Firth]

Wasn't America added to the Fragile DVD-A from 2001?

No, it's impossible to add something to a DVD-A, but it was included.

[miamiscot]

America is pure Yes at their peak. Given Howe's tone, I always felt it sounded like it belonged between The Yes Album and Fragile. Wakeman even sounds a little Kaye-esque at points (which is to be expected considering its origin.) So great! And we get Bruford playing keyboard at the end too. Mind-blowing how good that five-piece was. Only lasted 14 months??? What a shame.

[at least 100 dead]

Wasn't America added to the Fragile DVD-A from 2001?

That version, also included on the SW blu-ray, is a bit different from the one on Yesterdays....there are additional vocal and guitar overdubs IIRC.

[GuitarGeek]

Howe is also well into the country pickin' sort of sound with his hollow body that he would use on Close to the Edge.

I'm not sure what you were meaning to say there, but Howe used a different guitar on AMerica that what he used on Close To The Edge. I'd have to dig the guitar collection book out, but I know he said he used one particular guitar, I believe it was made by a short-lived company called Hayman. That is, in fact, the guitar you can see him playing in the America video.

On Close To The Edge, he mostly played a semi-hollow walnut finished Gibson ES-345 stereo guitar, which is the instrument you usually see him play live when they do Close To The Edge itself or Sibrian Khatru (you can see it in the Yessongs movie, for instance).

[ssully]

Ah, could be. I was going by what he used at SLO and afterwards.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQ757FH10zI


And then I found this quote

"Hayman gave me the 2020 which I used for Yes's recording of Paul Simon's 'America' for The New Age Of Atlantic. That's one of the few places to hear the full-length version: the end of the guitar break is on my 175, but the first two-thirds or more is the Hayman. It was an opportunity to play an American-style solo with more of the cliches I'd been so busy leaving out. There are things in it from Duane Eddy to Delany & Bonnie, re-interpreted. I used the Hayman because, somehow, changing guitars quite often freed me from a possible over-association with the 175."

The Hayman is a semi-hollow body guitar