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Thread: After 40+ Years, Prog Needs Sub-Categories

  1. #76
    Member Since: 3/27/2002 MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by No Pride View Post
    Me too! And a thread like this makes me particularly nostalgic for those days. I accept genre categorization as a necessary evil when discussing music, but it doesn't mean I have to like it. In the '70s when I was discovering all of this exciting new creative music, I never thought about what it should or shouldn't be called; never even gave a thought to prog and fusion belonging in separate categories.

    Ah, the good old days...
    Quote Originally Posted by Poisoned Youth View Post
    What progressive rock REALLY needs is Sub-Categories for the Sub-Categories.

    There are at least 4 different Zeuhl styles out there and it's high time we label them!
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve F. View Post
    Yeah! It'd be awful if someone hears something and just enjoys it!!


    DING DING DING DING DING

    thread over man... THREAD OVER!
    Why is it whenever someone mentions an artist that was clearly progressive (yet not the Symph weenie definition of Prog) do certain people feel compelled to snort "thats not Prog" like a whiny 5th grader?

  2. #77
    Member dgtlman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Camelogue View Post
    I think we need subcategories of Crotch Rock.
    Cock rock

  3. #78
    Moderator Poisoned Youth's Avatar
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    Aren't Magma "traditional Zeuhl" by definition?

    I'm in for "Japanese Bonkers" though. I think we must also consider Zeuhlerbury (Setna), Neo-Zeuhl (Neom), Fuzeuhl (One Shot), Jazzeuhl (Snake Oil), Proto-Zuehl (Magma's first album), and RZI "Rock Zeuhlissimo Italiano" (Universal Totem Orch).
    WANTED: Sig-worthy quote.

  4. #79
    Moderator Poisoned Youth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER View Post
    DING DING DING DING DING

    thread over man... THREAD OVER!
    You know we were being sarcastic, right?
    WANTED: Sig-worthy quote.

  5. #80
    I'm here for the moosic NogbadTheBad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poisoned Youth View Post
    Aren't Magma "traditional Zeuhl" by definition?

    I'm in for "Japanese Bonkers" though. I think we must also consider Zeuhlerbury (Setna), Neo-Zeuhl (Neom), Fuzeuhl (One Shot), Jazzeuhl (Snake Oil), Proto-Zuehl (Magma's first album), and RZI "Rock Zeuhlissimo Italiano" (Universal Totem Orch).
    Ah but Magma are just MAGMA! Everyone else who plays like Magma are Traditional Zeuhl but not Magma (obviously)

    So we have

    Magma
    Traditional Zeuhl
    Instrumental Zeuhl
    Japanese Bonkers (inc bands not from Japan who play that style)
    Zeuhlerbury
    Neo-Zeuhl
    Fuzeuhl
    Jazzeuhl
    Proto-Zuehl
    RZI

    I think we're good to go, I'll write a strongly worded email to PA & RYM.
    Ian

    Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on progrock.com
    https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-a...re-happy-hour/

    Gordon Haskell - "You've got to keep the groove in your head and play a load of bollocks instead"
    I blame Wynton, what was the question?
    There are only 10 types of people in the World, those who understand binary and those that don't.

  6. #81
    Member Joe F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NogbadTheBad View Post
    Ah but Magma are just MAGMA! Everyone else who plays like Magma are Traditional Zeuhl but not Magma (obviously)

    So we have

    Magma
    Traditional Zeuhl
    Instrumental Zeuhl
    Japanese Bonkers (inc bands not from Japan who play that style)
    Zeuhlerbury
    Neo-Zeuhl
    Fuzeuhl
    Jazzeuhl
    Proto-Zuehl
    RZI

    I think we're good to go, I'll write a strongly worded email to PA & RYM.
    Then Cross-over Zeuhl should be added.

  7. #82
    I'm here for the moosic NogbadTheBad's Avatar
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    And Zeuhl Related and Eclectic Zeuhl
    Ian

    Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on progrock.com
    https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-a...re-happy-hour/

    Gordon Haskell - "You've got to keep the groove in your head and play a load of bollocks instead"
    I blame Wynton, what was the question?
    There are only 10 types of people in the World, those who understand binary and those that don't.

  8. #83
    Progga mogrooves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baribrotzer View Post
    fusion is/was primarily played by actual jazz musicians.... [F]usion as jazz with (in many, but not all cases) a significant prog rock influence.
    The paradox is that a style of jazz music--fusion--had an audience made up overwhelmingly of rock fans. Had fusion been a development within rock music the near-hysteria it set off in the jazz world likely wouldn't have happened (except for the by-then predictable gripes about how "primitive" rock music was "killing" jazz) .

    Quote Originally Posted by Vic2012 View Post
    I agree with this. I don't remember "progressive" as a label. "Progressive" could have referred to any kind of music back in the 60s and 70s (jazz, rock, classical, etc.). Art/Rock was a very common term back in the 70s. I had a book titled the Rolling Stone Encyclopedia Of Rock. It's gotta be about 30 years old by now. One chapter is titled "Art Rock."
    Yes, in the 60s lower-case progressive did not name a style of rock music; rather it described an approach to and ideology of music making adopted by a shitload of stylistically diverse rock bands determined to break free of the commercial constraints of Top-40 radio and the then-common musical conventions of popcraft. The term was quickly appropriated and exploited by the record companies as a marketing tool. Tapping into the anti-establishment zietgeist the record labels bargained that music described as "progressive rock" would resonate well with the era's radical rhetoric and, presumably, "progressive" politics of its target consumer.

    RE: "Art Rock," you don't have to go back 30 years to find it in RS; relatively recently-published histories of rock still use it with reference to what we now call "Prog."

    Quote Originally Posted by Toothyspook View Post
    I am not even sure what they achieve.
    See the exchange below. Also, genres allow for the "insulation" of one type of music, say, "Prog", from another, say, Thai pi phat so that the differing expectations we develop about the identifying musical features of each don't interfere.

    Quote Originally Posted by No Pride View Post
    I accept genre categorization as a necessary evil when discussing music.
    Precisely. The latter can't happen without the former. Otherwise, we're just talking passed each other.
    Hell, they ain't even old-timey ! - Homer Stokes

  9. #84
    Member Since: 3/27/2002 MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poisoned Youth View Post
    You know we were being sarcastic, right?
    as am I
    Why is it whenever someone mentions an artist that was clearly progressive (yet not the Symph weenie definition of Prog) do certain people feel compelled to snort "thats not Prog" like a whiny 5th grader?

  10. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by NogbadTheBad View Post
    And Zeuhl Related and Eclectic Zeuhl
    I challenge you to find me some NON-eclectic Zeuhl

  11. #86
    Progga mogrooves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smcfee View Post
    I challenge you to find me some NON-eclectic Zeuhl
    Is that Big "E" or little "e" eclectic?
    Hell, they ain't even old-timey ! - Homer Stokes

  12. #87
    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    After 40+ Years, Prog Needs a Colonoscopy

  13. #88
    Geriatric Anomaly progeezer's Avatar
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    Do you mean Prog needs a colonoscopy prep to clean all the............out?
    "My choice early in life was either to be a piano player in a whorehouse or a politician, and to tell the truth, there's hardly any difference"

    President Harry S. Truman

  14. #89
    Progga mogrooves's Avatar
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    The stick has to be removed first.
    Hell, they ain't even old-timey ! - Homer Stokes

  15. #90
    There's that Jon Anderson album where he wears some jolly cool sunglasses on the cover, and I think it qualifies as gangsta-prog, especially when considering all those innovative samples and the obscene S/M-style misogynistically violent lyrics.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  16. #91
    Estimated Prophet notallwhowander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rarebird View Post
    We need seperate categories for each note and instrument played.
    Then categorize the intonations with which they are played!
    Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world.

  17. #92
    Estimated Prophet notallwhowander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NogbadTheBad View Post
    Ah but Magma are just MAGMA! Everyone else who plays like Magma are Traditional Zeuhl but not Magma (obviously)

    So we have

    Magma
    Traditional Zeuhl
    Instrumental Zeuhl
    Japanese Bonkers (inc bands not from Japan who play that style)
    Zeuhlerbury
    Neo-Zeuhl
    Fuzeuhl
    Jazzeuhl
    Proto-Zuehl
    RZI

    I think we're good to go, I'll write a strongly worded email to PA & RYM.
    Sorry, I'll have to split hairs. Zeuhlerbury and Neo-Zeuhl should be combined under the label "Zeuhl Lumineuse" as they are cutting new ground into the lighter side of the genre.

    Now I have to go meet with the Judean People's Front, or was that the People's Front of Judea...
    Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world.

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