One solo, on Sweet Pain. And that's Wagner playing the acoustic guitar at the end of Beth.Originally Posted by nosebone
One solo, on Sweet Pain. And that's Wagner playing the acoustic guitar at the end of Beth.
The solo is Dick and the phased rhythm Steve.
no tunes, no dynamics, no nosebone
Wow, sad to read, bon voyage...
And with the exception of Billion Dollar Babies, had NO idea about the other fill ins related to him on here!! I was just listening to Get Your Wings the other day and thought, shit, I don't recall hearing Perry having so much balls in his playing on Train. now i know why, they WEREN'T his balls!!
Oh no! Missed this entirely. So sad.
Saw a live Alice Cooper video of the song "Brutal Planet" recently that featured Wagner and young band kicking major ass with Alice in London.
no tunes, no dynamics, no nosebone
That was from the tour 2 summers ago. I saw it in Grand Rapids MI. Wagner did the tour with him and yea the band was totally ass kicking. I love the "Brutal Planet" album and he actually did several songs from it on that particular tour.
The first time I heard the guitar leads on that song I knew it couldn't be Perry. Joe's got talent but he can't play lead guitar like that.I don't recall hearing Perry having so much balls in his playing on Train.
Real Gone Music re-released Dick Wagner's first solo-album, originally called Richard Wagner, but now released as "Dick Wagner". As it was released in 1978 you can hear a lot of the same sound he produced on albums like Peter Gabriel I, also because the album was produced by Bob Ezrin.
The only time I ever saw Alice Cooper was on the Whiskey and Lace "King of the Silver Screen" tour. The intensity of the old band was gone, it was pretty much a big production with an eye on the dollar signs. But Wagner and Steve Hunter played like fucking gods. Best parts of the show was when the old songs came out and those guys locked in.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down.'- Bob Newhart
Perry was right next to John McLaughlin in Rolling Stone's 100 "Greatest Guitarists" list...no surprise that those geniuses missed Wagner completely.
Why did Wagner play on Train Kept a rollin anyway? I don't see his part being anything over the top...Perry is an adequate player in the pentatonic vein of blues rock(not much different than Wagner) ...I wonder how he reacted to this idea...or was he awol and they just recruited Wagner for a few hours.
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For the early 70s, that was a state of the art rock guitar solo.
no tunes, no dynamics, no nosebone
Perry's not bad, but somehow I don't think he was capable of that level of guitar playing...Wagner added a level of taste that I've never heard from Perry. It's not just about the mechanics.
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It probably came down to they got out of Wagner in one take what they might have got out of Perry in 20 or 30. Time was very literally money in studios back in the day.
Wagner talks about it quite a bit in his book, but I can't remember exact details. I do believe time was a factor. Perry improved a lot as a guitarist over the years, but at that time they brought in Wagner to get a quick take of the sound they wanted.
Couple possible reasons, but basically, more than likely the band was behind schedule on delivering the album, and the producer was trying to get it done already. My guess is that there was one of three scenarios:
1. Perry couldn't up with an idea for a solo.
2. Perry was too bombed to stand up that day, much less play a coherent guitar solo.
3. Perry was otherwise indisposed and was unable to play for a couple days or more, for whichever reason.
Ace Frehley says the reason Wagner played on Sweet Pain was because he couldn't come up with an idea for a solo, and Ezrin unilaterally pulled rank and called in Wagner to do the overdub. I think Ace said he didn't even know that Ezrin had done that until the record came out and he heard the solo and said "That's not me!".
On the other hand, there's another story, told by Bob Kulick, about being asked by Paul Stanley to come in and do some overdubs (probably for the studio tracks on side four of Alive, or maybe the "new" songs that were on the Killers compilation). Anyway, Bob said he went down to the studio, did a few takes, things were going good, etc. After awhile, they took a break, so Bob goes down to the studio lounge, and there's Ace sprawled out on a couch! Ace looks, and drunkenly says, "How'm I playing?!". Bob says, "Best you ever sounded Ace!".
BTW, producers bringing in studio rats to play on records that are theoretically being made by a band is nothing new. There's always one reason or another, either because the producer wants to make sure they "get it right and get it right quickly" (or whatever) or because someone's too bombed to play their instrument that day in the studio.
Then there's bands like The Rolling Stones, where there's quite a few songs where it's actually Keith (or someone else other than Bill Wyman) playing bass. And for the record, there's songs by Kiss where it's either Ace or Paul playing bass, or sometimes Gene playing at least some guitar (and between Dynasty and Unmasked, there's exactly one song that Peter actually played on, even though he's depicted in the artwork for both albums and he appears in the respective videos for the singles off each album).
Given the fact that it's only the one or two songs (I'm sure read there's another song on that album either Wagner or Steve Hunter is on, but I forget which one), I'm guessing they probably either did attempt 20 or 30 takes with Joe, with nil results. Or possibly, as I said above, maybe Joe was too wasted. If your guitarist is tanked to play today, there's a slight chance he might be too tanked to work tomorrow. So you call in the ringer who, as you say, will almost certainly nail the solo in one or two takes and get it over with already.
I've always had suspicions about Aerosmith's Walk This Way solos.
It sounds like Wagner also....
no tunes, no dynamics, no nosebone
They do indeed... That wasn't a Bob Ezrin record though.
I recall a Cream article from back in the day. Joe Perry gets complimented by a fan for his playing on "Train" and he gets real pissy, says the solo is only OK and he does it much better now. What a little bitch.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down.'- Bob Newhart
Neither was Get Your Wings.
Hmm, I guess not- Bob is listed as executive producer though, which seems to indicate even if he probably wasn't directly involved in the hands-on production of GYW he was there pulling some strings and getting things expedited, and bringing in the session guys.
I'll second that - There is nothing in that solo that Perry could not play. Besides, if Perry was not available, where was Brad? Whitford is more than capable as well....
Last edited by eporter66; 01-24-2015 at 06:50 PM.
Are you a guitar player?
no tunes, no dynamics, no nosebone
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