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Thread: Best drum recordings?

  1. #51
    I do tend to agree with Udi about this. A really obvious example is Magma's Emehntehtt-Re (although hardly 'rock'), in which the jazz-sounding kit seems completely at odds with the piece itself and the rest of the band. It really marred my enjoyment of what is otherwise a lovely sounding album.

  2. #52
    Member Zeuhlmate's Avatar
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    Long time ago.
    The possibilties of the studio is an instrument.
    Beatles, Soft Machine, Pink Floyd, and lots of other bands.

    btw does Chris Cutlers drums sound naturalistic ( I love the sound ) ?

  3. #53
    Member nosebone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER View Post
    I really think Lenny's Venusian Summer and especially RTF's Romantic Warrior have the Drum sound recorded exquisitely
    RW especially.
    no tunes, no dynamics, no nosebone

  4. #54
    ginger baker's drums with Graham Bond on the sound of 65.Never seemed to get near that sound again with Cream(though some of the live stuff is alright) which was a shame as his style was ideally suited to that "wide open" sound.

  5. #55
    chalkpie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kavus Torabi View Post
    I do tend to agree with Udi about this. A really obvious example is Magma's Emehntehtt-Re (although hardly 'rock'), in which the jazz-sounding kit seems completely at odds with the piece itself and the rest of the band. It really marred my enjoyment of what is otherwise a lovely sounding album.
    I've been saying this for years, and got chastised here a few times that I dared to 'question' or criticize the production and sonics of these albums by some hardcore Magma ilk. Musically this band has the potential to create some of the best "prog" I've ever heard....pure magic......but production-wise: the way its presented leaves a lot to be desired to my ears. The best adjective I can come up with is flat.

  6. #56
    Banned Dave (in MA)'s Avatar
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    The record Oregon and Elvin Jones did together, "Together", certainly fits the driving dynamic powerhouse drumming from the OP.

  7. #57
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    Some good one's recorded live:
    Steve Hackett, 'The Tokyo Tapes' ; Chester Thompson
    Roxy Music, 'Heart Still Beating' ; Andy Newmark
    jean-Luc Ponty, 'Live'; Casey Scheuerell
    Jethro Tull, 'Bursting Out'; Barriemore Barlow
    Last edited by bigbassdrum; 08-01-2014 at 01:39 PM.
    "Normal is just the average of extremes" - Gary Lessor

  8. #58
    Member Emeritus (A.M.P.) rcarlberg's Avatar
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    "Together" seems to be a bit of a unicorn, in terms of availability.

  9. #59
    Almost anything on ECM.

    The drums and percussion always sounded like they actually existed in a real 3d space, with accurate size with relation to the rest of the instruments. Cymbals seemed to have the right amount of acoustical energy, and the drums had great attack, and presence without sounding exaggerated, unlike most rock recordings. Don't expect the type of drum recording where there is a mic stuffed into every drum, to give exaggerated dynamics and punch.

    A few off the top of my head:

    Art Lande and Rubissa Patrol
    Paul Motian
    Art Ensemble of Chicago - Full Force
    Eberhard Weber - The Colours of Chloe
    Enrico Rava - The Pilgrim and the Stars
    Anything with Jack DeJohnette
    Anything with Jon Chritianson

    The list goes on.
    And if there were a god, I think it very unlikely that he would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence - Russell

  10. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post
    I wonder when this fashion changed? When did we stop recording music in the studio to make it sound like it sounds live -- and why?

    I wonder if this has anything to do with why live concert sound is universally crap these days?

    Why nobody remembers what instruments really sound like, without all the processing?
    It's because that's what works in the context of rock and popular music. When's the last time someone decided to record a pure, unprocessed electric guitar on a rock record? Why should drums be different? Live sound is another matter; I can only assume that all working FOH engineers are (with a few notable exceptions) untrained idiots.

  11. #61
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    I second the ECM recommendation!

    Also, while it's too simplistic to say that drum production falls into two categories: good 'n natural or horribly over-processed (and I'm not alleging anyone here is saying that!), it can be tempting to hear things from that perspective sometimes. Regarding Magma or other "out of place" jazz-like kits used in louder, non-jazz environments... That's what makes me tick, man! That's what a lot of this "so-called progressive music" music boils down to for me: combining disparate or incongruous elements to create something unique.

    As a drummer, I do often feel at odds with professional sound engineers (hardly their fault-- they're pros, enforcing pro standards while I'm just an uncooperative amateur) over items like my "bouncy" 18" kick drum sound or my hatred of easily controlled crash/splash cymbals.

    There is art & science at work when mixing & EQ instruments together. I admit I don't have "the touch" that the professionals have, and I'm unlikely to learn it in this lifetime. But the number one thing that turns me off from modern day "Prog" (i.e., whatever it is we talk about about here) is the production. No, it's not 1974 anymore, but the very controlled sheen & perfection of much (not all) modern recordings is a deal-breaker for me.

  12. #62
    Banned Dave (in MA)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post
    "Together" seems to be a bit of a unicorn, in terms of availability.
    Sorry about that. I guess I fall into the I-have-it-so-it-must-be-readily-available trap sometimes.

  13. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by mx20 View Post
    Regarding Magma or other "out of place" jazz-like kits used in louder, non-jazz environments... That's what makes me tick, man! That's what a lot of this "so-called progressive music" music boils down to for me: combining disparate or incongruous elements to create something unique.
    .
    I do tend to agree. The sound of Joey Baron's kit...in fact the whole band on Naked City albums has that weird 'jazz band recording' of a jazz group playing hardcore that is absolutely magic.
    It is this one Magma album specifically that I find problematic. The previous KA, also using a jazz kit sound, is terrific

    Quote Originally Posted by mx20 View Post
    There is art & science at work when mixing & EQ instruments together. I admit I don't have "the touch" that the professionals have, and I'm unlikely to learn it in this lifetime. But the number one thing that turns me off from modern day "Prog" (i.e., whatever it is we talk about about here) is the production. No, it's not 1974 anymore, but the very controlled sheen & perfection of much (not all) modern recordings is a deal-breaker for me.
    I agree. That and the horrible music.

  14. #64
    Member Zeuhlmate's Avatar
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    Christian Vander has a 2 CD out only with drumsolos - called Korusz (2000)
    The drumsound could definetely be better.
    But he sounds fantastic on Hhai (live)
    The sound of Magmas albums have always been so so.

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kavus Torabi View Post
    I do tend to agree. The sound of Joey Baron's kit...It is this one Magma album specifically that I find problematic. The previous KA, also using a jazz kit sound, is terrific
    Ah, now I see!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kavus Torabi View Post
    I agree. That and the horrible music.
    Ha!

  16. #66
    Member Since: 3/27/2002 MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER's Avatar
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    Gong - Second Wind
    Why is it whenever someone mentions an artist that was clearly progressive (yet not the Symph weenie definition of Prog) do certain people feel compelled to snort "thats not Prog" like a whiny 5th grader?

  17. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post
    I wonder when this fashion changed? When did we stop recording music in the studio to make it sound like it sounds live -- and why?

    I wonder if this has anything to do with why live concert sound is universally crap these days?

    Why nobody remembers what instruments really sound like, without all the processing?

    mmm...
    I actually think the term naturalistic drum sound is a oxymoron
    Its never naturalistic
    Its always manipulated to one degree on another
    As the music got more and more electric with loud amplifiers and distortion there was a need to accommodate the sound to be able to highlight all the elements in the kit
    That is why a jazzy drum sound can not sound "right" with a bass player like Janick Top
    And I'll go and say it again I really like manipulated drum sounds
    Listen to Helemet's Betty or to Jellyfish Joining a Fan Club - amazing sounds !

  18. #68
    Member Emeritus (A.M.P.) rcarlberg's Avatar
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    I like manipulated drum sounds when Bill Bruford is playing a Simmons electronic drum kit, or David Van Tieghem or Peter Van Hooke are triggering samples from drum pads. It is less appropriate, in my view, for a jazz-rock ensemble playing fusion.

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stickleback View Post
    I was gonig to suggest Simon Phillips. He has a knack for tuning and capturing a very lively drum sound. The recent recordings with Hiromi are very nice. Virgil's drum tone is a little flat in comparison I think.
    Have just revisited Steve Weingart Dialog wit S Phillips behind the kit. He sounds a lot better than on Protocol II. A lot spacier. On Protocol the mix is shifted towards right channel somehow, hence drums are somewhat congested.

  20. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Kavus Torabi View Post
    It is this one Magma album specifically that I find problematic. The previous KA, also using a jazz kit sound, is terrific
    actually if you listen the bonus DVD that comes with magma's ER . it sounds better than the CD !! to me the problem is not the drum sound by itself but the whole mix and mastering .. imho the DVD sounds better because it was at an earlier stage of mixing process...

  21. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Udi Koomran View Post
    That is why a jazzy drum sound can not sound "right" with a bass player like Janick Top
    !
    live the vander drum kit sounds really great ! at the triton where the mikes on the drum are just to reinforce a little the sound ( slight reveb on the snare etc ..) vander sounds really great . maybe it's another problem on a big stage . but to my opinion the drum kit has to sound right in the place before any miking process. by the way Top or bussonet use very often a powerbrake on the bass amp to have the growling bass sound of a ampeg at 11 without destroying someone else ears.

  22. #72
    chalkpie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorillclub View Post
    actually if you listen the bonus DVD that comes with magma's ER . it sounds better than the CD !! to me the problem is not the drum sound by itself but the whole mix and mastering .. imho the DVD sounds better because it was at an earlier stage of mixing process...
    Bingo. Yeah, I think all of the DVD's I've heard by these lunatics sound better than the discs.....Although I only own the Trianon Trilogie CD set and not the DVD of the same gig?

  23. #73
    Member Jerjo's Avatar
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    The tone that PEer Rick Landwehr got on the Tamandua disc was phenomenal in terms of current jazz recordings.

    But for rock, nothing beats Bonzo. I've heard far too many rock and blues recordings where the drums sound like flat or wooden, or in Lars Ulrich's case, a small child banging on sheets of tin.
    I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down.'- Bob Newhart

  24. #74
    facetious maximus Yves's Avatar
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    Probably not in the vein you are looking for but I always liked the sound of Cozy Powell's drums on the MSG "Live At Budokan" record. I have a Japanese CD version (Chrysalis) and his drums are front and center. I think that may be because Cozy was as big a star in Japan as Michael Schenker was..if not bigger.

    Of course this is big and loud rock drumming and not the style being bandied about in this thread.
    "Corn Flakes pissed in. You ranted. Mission accomplished. Thread closed."

    -Cozy 3:16-

  25. #75
    Jeff Porcaro - The Seventh One - Toto
    Vinnie Colaiuta - The Works - Nik Kershaw
    William "Ju Ju" House - Slave to the Rhythm - Grace Jones

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