Slate's Explainer: Why do British singers sound American?

[ItalProgRules]

Kind of interesting article on transatlantic singing. Of course this works both ways. American bands have adopted fake Brit accents as well. Robert Pollard of Guided by Voices springs immediately to mind.


Quoted in full but here's the link:

http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/explainer/2012/11/skyfall_theme_song_by_adele_why_do_british_singers _sound_american.html

November 23, 2012
Slate's Explainer: Why do British singers sound American?
By L.V. Anderson
The Washington Post

For the newest James Bond movie, Skyfall, English singer Adele recorded a song with the same name. Though Adele speaks with a strong London accent, her singing voice sounds more American than British. Why do British vocalists often sound American when they sing?

Because that's the way everyone expects pop and rock musicians to sound. British pop singers have been imitating American pronunciations since Cliff Richard, the Beatles, and the Rolling Stones began recording in the 1960s. These musicians were largely influenced by the African-American Vernacular English of black American blues and rock and roll singers like Chuck Berry, but their faux-American dialects usually comprised aspects of several American dialects. Imitating an American accent involved both the adoption of American vowel sounds and rhoticity: the pronunciation of r's wherever they appear in a word. (Nonrhoticity, by contrast, is the habit of dropping r's at the end of a syllable, as most dialects of England do.) Sometimes Brits attempting to sing in an American style went overboard with the r's, as did Paul McCartney in his cover of "Till There Was You," pronouncing saw more like sawr.

Linguist Peter Trudgill tracked rhoticity in British rock music over the years and found that the Beatles' pronunciation of r's decreased over the course of the 1960s, settling into a trans-Atlantic sound that incorporated aspects of both British and American dialects. The trend also went in the opposite direction as new genres developed: American pop-punk vocalists like Billie Joe Armstrong of Green Day took on a British-tinged accent to sound more like seminal artists such as Joe Strummer of the Clash. Contemporary singers continue to adopt various accents according to their genre; Keith Urban, who is Australian, sings country music with a marked American Southern accent. A recent study suggests that the default singing accent for New Zealand pop singers utilizes American vowel sounds, even when the singers aren't trying to sound American, perhaps because today's singers were brought up listening to American (and imitation-American) pop vocals.

Even when singers aren't trying to imitate a particular vocal style associated with a genre, regional dialects tend to get lost in song: Intonation is superseded by melody, vowel length by the duration of each note, and vocal cadences by a song's rhythm. This makes vowel sounds and rhoticity all the more important in conveying accent in song.

[Scott Bails]

Interesting. I've always wondered about that, and have also wondered about Billie Joe Armstrong and Keith Urban, too. (As well as Shania Twain, who is Canadian, and Taylor Swift, who is a no-talent hack from Reading, Pennsylvania - but both often sing with that country twang.)

[revporl]

I've wondered about that since when I was a kid. Hooray for Peter Hammill and Kirsty Maccoll and Sandy Denny and John Lydon and John Cooper Clarke and Mike Skinner!

[davis]

Interesting...Taylor Swift, who is a no-talent hack from Reading, Pennsylvania...

I don't think anyone is required to come from The South or even outside city limits to be an authentic country music performer, but from what I've seen of her onstage (on YT), she seems pretty talented to me. I don't follow country music (other than Rev Peyton), but my wife does, so I am exposed to some of it.

[Scott Bails]

She can't sing live. I've seen her on several awards shows, and she can't sing in tune if her life depended on it.

And her new song is sickening.

[ItalProgRules]

Kind of related, a lot of German singers clearly learned English from the English and not from Americans. Frank Bornemann's infamous Renaisance pot-smoking spoken-word section on ELOY's The Power and The Passion, he sounds like an Englishman. And, last night I was spinning TRIUMVIRAT's debut and noticed that the chorale section at the end of "Broken Mirror" is veddy British sounding.

The part about the Beatles is cool, I'll need to play some of their representative albums from throughout the 60s and see if I can spot the change in "rhoticity."

[Rickenbacker]

Like the article mentions, after the Beatles came along, many more British acts went the other direction & embraced their "Englishness" & played up their accents when singing. (eg: Hermans' Hermits, The Kinks, Sex Pistols, etc)

[zombywoof]

Why is it that Peter Gabriel sounded very English until he embarked on a solo career?

[davis]

She can't sing live. I've seen her on several awards shows, and she can't sing in tune if her life depended on it.

And her new song is sickening.

Okaaay, sorry to hear that. I just hope you're not subjected to her on a regular basis.

[alanterrill]

I've wondered about that since when I was a kid. Hooray for Peter Hammill and Kirsty Maccoll and Sandy Denny and John Lydon and John Cooper Clarke and Mike Skinner!
Yes indeed -and I'd add Robert Wyatt and Richard Sinclair as always sounding as English in their singing as in their speech.

[Scott Bails]

Okaaay, sorry to hear that. I just hope you're not subjected to her on a regular basis.


Unfortunately - for this particular issue - I have a 10-year-old daughter! :p

[spellbound]

Unfortunately - for this particular issue - I have a 10-year-old daughter!

So do I, but if she is excited by Taylor Swift, she has never let on. Last time I saw her moved by a song, it was "You Really Got Me" by the Kinks. :)


but both often sing with that country twang

A country twang is an affectation easily adopted by wannabe singers who could never make a record outside the confines of country music.

---------

Interesting Slate article. Rhoticity. I never knew there was a word for that. Even within the US there are dialects that differ in rhoticity. There is an old joke that says: What happens to all the "Rs" left out of spoken words in New York? They end up in Texas, in words like "warsh."

[sonic]

Yes, NZ singers do tend to sing with a foreign accent unfortunately. In the '80s they were trying to sound English! You get the same thing in Australia. Some who don't — Peter Garrett from Midnight Oil ... well mostly. And of course Rolf Harris!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lofgud4wLLo

[sonic]

One from NZ:
Fred Dagg:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tAWwqKNI7g

[Lino]

I don't believe they sound as American as we think. Especially when you compare them to actual American singers.

[sonic]

I don't believe they sound as American as we think. Especially when you compare them to actual American singers.
It may not even be intentional, but it's there. Even listening to NZ underground favorites like the Tall Dwarves or The Clean I can hear the US/UK influence. They just don't sing in their native accents.

[sonic]

The Chills are pretty natural, I guess...
The Chills (NZ)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvYihKlgzOg

[sonic]

This young woman has a kiwi accent:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUys4nkys4s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebKYyCi-9DQ

[iguana]

compare phil collins on “d-ah-nce on a volcano” and “i caaaan’t daaaance”, if you will. a transatlantic leap 15 years in the making.

[per anporth]

Between them, the writer of this article & the so called "linguist" are talking cack.

The intervocallic insertion of <r> sounds at word ends is a perfectly common phenomenon in English - though it tends to be more prevalent in middle class &/or Southern speakers.

It has *nothing* to do with trying to sound American.

[Big Ears]

John Lennon sings with a Scouse accent on Abbey Road.

[JIF]

Yes, NZ singers do tend to sing with a foreign accent unfortunately. In the '80s they were trying to sound English! You get the same thing in Australia. Some who don't — Keith Garrett from Midnight Oil ... well mostly. And of course Rolf Harris!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lofgud4wLLoIt's Peter(not Keith) Garret.

[Hunnibee]

I'm crazy for British accents, so let the natives sing, please!!!

(well, maybe not a Van Dyke Cockney, but everything else...) ;)

[sonic]

It's Peter(not Keith) Garret.
Corrected.

[Big Block 454 part 2]

compare phil collins on “d-ah-nce on a volcano” and “i caaaan’t daaaance”, if you will. a transatlantic leap 15 years in the making.

D-ah-nce is a southern English pronounciation, da-nce is northern English. Phil Collins is from London, so you'd expect him to say "d-ah-nce".

However, perhaps the vocals on "I can't dance" were written by Rutherford (who, though he was born in the south, grew up in Chester and The Wirral) - he may well pronounce it "da-nce".

There are lots of other words pronounced differently in the south and the north, e.g. glass and bath.

[Big Block 454 part 2]

"American pop-punk vocalists like Billie Joe Armstrong of Green Day took on a British-tinged accent to sound more like seminal artists such as Joe Strummer of the Clash. "

What? He doesn't sound English (or "British", whatever that means) to me. One main difference that I notice between American and English accents is the pronounciation of "t" in the middle of a word. Billie Joe Armstrong says "phodergraph" - an English person would say "photograph".

[Big Block 454 part 2]

One thing that made me laugh recently are the comments (presumably from Americans) on the Sonuus demo videos. They don't seem to be able to figure out where the guy is from at all - several people said "The Swedish Chef"...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5T_Ryrb_YPo

[Vic2012]

The intervocallic insertion of <r> sounds at word ends is a perfectly common phenomenon in English - though it tends to be more prevalent in middle class &/or Southern speakers. .

Why do people from the Northeastern states (well, New Yorkers mainly) put an "r" at the end of words that don't have an "r" ? Always wondered that. "I saw it" becomes "I sore it." :lol hilarious. I'm not mocking it, I just find it really funny.

[Splicer]

And then you have the first album by Ministry with Al Jourgensen singing in the most embarrassing caricature of a Brit accent. If I ever met the guy the only thing I'd so is start singing at him, "Oh the corr-ee-dor, yes, the corr-ee-dor..."

[sonic]

And then you have the first album by Ministry with Al Jourgensen singing in the most embarrassing caricature of a Brit accent. If I ever met the guy the only thing I'd so is start singing at him, "Oh the corr-ee-dor, yes, the corr-ee-dor..."
Don't really care. I love that album anyway.

[Big Block 454 part 2]

This link from the original article is interesting.

http://david-crystal.blogspot.co.uk/2009/11/on-singing-accents.html

- although when he says A Liverpudlian accent regularly stands out in the Beatles - such as (in 'Penny Lane') customer with a rounded first vowel and words like there and wear (in 'Only a Northern Song') with a central vowel (rhyming with her)., I would say that they're taking the piss. Ok, he'd probably say "customer" like that when he was talking, but he's over-emphasised it in the song.

[Big Block 454 part 2]

Sometimes Brits attempting to sing in an American style went overboard with the Rs, as did Paul McCartney in his cover of “Till There Was You,” pronouncing saw more like sawr.

Why do people from the Northeastern states (well, New Yorkers mainly) put an "r" at the end of words that don't have an "r" ? Always wondered that. "I saw it" becomes "I sore it."

I'm sure I've seen this mentioned before on PE. I can't really understand it - as an Englishman, I would pronounce "saw" and "sore" exactly the same (and I think that's what's happening in the Paul McCartney song). How else can you pronounce "saw"?

[Big Ears]

I understand the Elizabethan English accent was similar to the American accent, so they may not be as far removed as they seem.

[Vic2012]

I had this friend (a native Floridian) who had a girlfriend from Long Island. She had a thick accent and would put an "r" at the end of words (that didn't have the letter r obviously). He'd get all sarcastic with her whenever she said the word "pizza." She pronounced it as "peet-sir." He'd make fun of her right in front of all us by saying "sweetie? where do you see an "r" in PIZZA?" Eventually she ditched his sarcastic, wisecracking ass. But it was kinda funny. Peet-sir :lol

[Camelogue]

Sounds like another case of two countries separated by a common language. (Well somewhat common.)

[Big Block 454 part 2]

I understand the Elizabethan English accent was similar to the American accent, so they may not be as far removed as they seem.

Certainly there were words used in Elizabethan English which died out in England but are still used in American English - such as "Fall" for Autumn and "gotten".

[sonic]

Moon Zappa appears in this ('80s) documentary.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FtSUPAM-uA

[alanterrill]

Sometimes Brits attempting to sing in an American style went overboard with the Rs, as did Paul McCartney in his cover of “Till There Was You,” pronouncing saw more like sawr.

Why do people from the Northeastern states (well, New Yorkers mainly) put an "r" at the end of words that don't have an "r" ? Always wondered that. "I saw it" becomes "I sore it."

I'm sure I've seen this mentioned before on PE. I can't really understand it - as an Englishman, I would pronounce "saw" and "sore" exactly the same (and I think that's what's happening in the Paul McCartney song). How else can you pronounce "saw"?
Really? I'm a southerner, so I'd pronounce bath as barth even though I know its illogical, but there is a distinct difference between saw and sore, in southern pronunciation at least. 'Saw' rhymes with 'paw' and 'draw' but 'sore' rhymes with 'oar' and 'core'. I can't describe it phonetically, but its the w sound that is pronounced at the end, not the r sound.

[Big Block 454 part 2]

Really? I'm a southerner, so I'd pronounce bath as barth even though I know its illogical, but there is a distinct difference between saw and sore, in southern pronunciation at least. 'Saw' rhymes with 'paw' and 'draw' but 'sore' rhymes with 'oar' and 'core'. I can't describe it phonetically, but its the w sound that is pronounced at the end, not the r sound.

Interesting - I pronounce all those 6 words exactly the same. I was born in Devon, but I've lived most of my life in Lancashire and Yorkshire.

I looked on Dictionary.com, which has a soundfile for each word (presumably an American pronounciation). They pronounced "sore" the same way I'd say it, but "saw" was pronounced "sar", which was very odd to me.

[Big Block 454 part 2]

One last thought - I pronounce "paw", "pore", "pour" and "poor" (almost) the same - though quite a few true northerners would pronouce "poor" as "poo-er".

[Ursula]

Kind of related, a lot of German singers clearly learned English from the English and not from Americans. Frank Bornemann's infamous Renaisance pot-smoking spoken-word section on ELOY's The Power and The Passion, he sounds like an Englishman. And, last night I was spinning TRIUMVIRAT's debut and noticed that the chorale section at the end of "Broken Mirror" is veddy British sounding.


Unfortunately there are other German singers who try to put on an American accent when singing. It really depends also on the genre. American rock has had a large influence on the German rock scene.

Uschi

[Ursula]

Between them, the writer of this article & the so called "linguist" are talking cack.

The intervocallic insertion of <r> sounds at word ends is a perfectly common phenomenon in English - though it tends to be more prevalent in middle class &/or Southern speakers.

It has *nothing* to do with trying to sound American.

He might not get all the interpretation right of his findings but my understanding is that this is by now a widely accepted theory.

In that context found something else interesting:

http://isg.urv.es/sociolinguistics/varieties/trudgillonmusic.htm

Uschi

[Progbear]

Why do people from the Northeastern states (well, New Yorkers mainly) put an "r" at the end of words that don't have an "r" ? Always wondered that. "I saw it" becomes "I sore it." :lol hilarious. I'm not mocking it, I just find it really funny.

I guess I haven’t spent enough time in the Northeast, but I think of “ghost ‘R’s,” and i think of English pronunciations. Remember “A Day in the Life”? (“I sore a film today, oh boy...” :lol)

-------------
MIKE (a.k.a. "Progbear")

"It is not an obscenity to be free. It is a divine right." --Annette Peacock

N.P.:“Save Me”-Clout

[per anporth]

The word-end intervocalic <r> enables a continuous slide between the words - without it, a distinct pulsive breath has to be inserted, separating our the words.

It is, as Colin has been discussing, a difference between southern & northern speakers of English in Britain. There may be reasons for why this difference manifests itself - but these do not affect the linguistic fact.

[per anporth]

Btw - thanks for that link, Ursula - I think the phenomen of "hypercorrection" is fascinating (but, unlike most proggers hereabouts, I doubtless need to get out more :))

[Vic2012]

...... a film today, oh boy...” :lol)

-------------
MIKE (a.k.a. "Progbear")

"It is not an obscenity to be free. It is a divine right." --Annette Peacock

N.P.:“Save Me”-Clout

:lol:lol:lol

[Ursula]

Btw - thanks for that link, Ursula - I think the phenomen of "hypercorrection" is fascinating (but, unlike most proggers hereabouts, I doubtless need to get out more :))

While I'm a firm believer in the benefits of fresh air and hence I think getting out more is certainly beneficial I also must admit that I found your post to be refreshing and I'm glad you stayed long enough in to make it.

Uschi

[sonic]

I understand the Elizabethan English accent was similar to the American accent, so they may not be as far removed as they seem.
I can't hear American in Elizabethan English:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPlpphT7n9s

[Lino]

If only everybody could speak/sing in the accent-neutral *Canadian English*. ;)