The Isley Brothers

[MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER]

yeah yeah I know they aint Prog and never did anything remotely Prog

BUT

they are very good musicians and play some really good Funk for any who may be interested

I know there are probably more than a few here who own some of their albums but I thought I'd post this for the curious

I recently made an 80:20 CDR of their earlier stuff
from 1965 a couple of tunes they recorded when Hendrix was their Guitar player... fun tunes but nothing profound
I also threw on their big hit It's Your Thing
but then I skipped ahead to the point where they let Ernie loose
For those who are not familiar, Ernie Isley is quite an accomplished electric Guitar player who evidently picked up some stuff from Hendrix while in his company as an adolescent.

So, here's my take on the 3 albums I compiled on the CDR:
Early on they liked to record a LOT of cover tunes as evidenced on their album Brother Brother Brother
Well, they were still doing covers when Ernie started laying down the scorching solos on their next album 3+3.

I cut some of the cover tunes but had to keep 'Summer Breeze', if not for the cool new arrangement then definitely for the excellent extended Guitar solo Ernie takes to finish the tune out. This solo is one of his best ever (and I'm a big fan of his work). They do nice versions of 'Listen to the Music' and 'Sunshine Go Away Today' but the only other reason to own 3+3 is for 'That Lady' ... that is if you haven't heard it too many times in your life already.

Their next album, Live It Up has only one cover... Todd's 'Hello It's Me' and I did not care for it. The album is otherwise fairly solid with 4 strong tunes but they really hadn't found themselves yet.

The Heat Is On is where they hit their stride and found the identity that would carry them through the rest of the 70s. Side one is smoking Funk (including 'Fight The Power') and side two is well crafted love songs as smoldering as only the Isleys have mastered.

The albums which follow (who knows when I'll get to digitize them) are all chock full of smoking Funk jams, usually in the format of one side Funk, one side "quiet storm"... but a lot of the Funk is really really great thanks in no small part to the Guitar work of Ernie Isley.

Hopefully this thread helps some who might like to check out their stuff, though I expect it to sink like a lead zeppelin ;)

[profusion]

I love the 3+3 version of the Isley Brothers. Go For Your Guns is my favorite album of theirs, even over The Heat Is On. Some serious funk on that one.

R&B is a much more conservative genre, and this group pushed some boundaries within those restrictions, so I'd say there's some prog in there.

[dlm]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKsBEg9pp1o

[jgprogbear]

Good to see some love for the Eisley's here. Ernie could really kick some gluteus max!

[JJ88]

Yes, Ernie Isley really burns up on those songs. I always love hearing 'That Lady' and they eviscerate Seals and Crofts' original 'Summer Breeze' IMHO.

I don't own much of their earlier stuff, beyond what's on compilations. But they'd always been admired by the 'British Invasion' bands before their actual crossover to the rock market with '3x3'- witness the various covers of 'Shout', 'Twist And Shout' and The Yardbirds doing 'Respectable'.




R&B is a much more conservative genre, and this group pushed some boundaries within those restrictions, so I'd say there's some prog in there.

It wasn't really conservative in that period- long songs, long soloing and the like can be found all over the soul music of that time. It was arguably the norm rather than the exception IMHO.

[Jeremy Bender]

It wasn't really conservative in that period- long songs, long soloing and the like can be found all over the soul music of that time. It was arguably the norm rather than the exception IMHO.

Here's one of my very favorite examples, The Temptations Papa Was a Rolling Stone in all it's 12 minute:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hcqs5z0yEl4

[GuitarGeek]

Which one is the one with Living In The Life on it? Is that Go For Your Guns? You get the vocal track, then it ends then you hear an instrumental version of the exact same track, with Ernie wailing over the backing track. Another track I remember liking by them was Climbing Up The Ladder (or was it Climbing Up The Mountain?).

Sorry, it's been a long time since I've listened to The Isleys. But it's a damn shame that Ernie's name isn't mentioned in the same breath as Hendrix, Beck, Page, Clapton, etc. He's definitely ever bit as brilliant a guitarist as the more famous guitar gods.

BTW, I'm not sure Ernie actually "picked up" anything from Jimi, other than in the same way millions of other guitarists around the world did. It's often reported that Jimi taught Ernie to play, but I read an interview with one of the other guys who played in the Isley Bros. band, and he said that Ernie wasn't even playing guitar yet when Jimi was in the band. It is true that Jimi lived with the Isleys when he was playing with them, because he couldn't afford his own place (he was apparently chronically getting thrown out of apartments because he couldn't pay rent), so Ernie probably hung out with Jimi a lot, but I have the impression Ernie didn't actually start playing guitar until a couple years later.

Now, I remember Ernie saying one time that he had a dream where Jimi visited him, and in the dream, Jimi played Ernie's guitar, right hand style. Jimi said to him "left, right, doesn't make any difference". So after that, Ernie taught himself how to play the guitar southpaw style.

And yeah, there was a lot of really cool R&B and funk stuff during the early and mid 70's. That was the era of Funkadelic, the early Earth Wind And Fire (who had some really cool funk tracks on their first three or four albums), and the Norman Whitfield produced Temptations albums. Story goes that The Temptations eventually rebelled against Whitfield, because he was putting these long tracks that would have like 10 minutes of the band jamming with two minutes of the Temptations themselves actually singing.

[Jeremy Bender]

Well, that and Whitfield pulled a Jimmy Miller (Blind Faith & Rolling Stones producer) and developed a drug habit. X)

I love this 2 CD compilation:

3094

In addition to Papa Was A Rolling Stone, there's

Runaway Child, Running Wild 9:32
Take A Stroll Thru Your Mind 8:33
Smiling Faces Sometimes 12:40
Masterpiece 13:48

I also love the different mix of Ball of Confusion that they use. Great compilation for those in to that kind of thang.

[profusion]

It wasn't really conservative in that period- long songs, long soloing and the like can be found all over the soul music of that time. It was arguably the norm rather than the exception IMHO.

I'd say the R&B business was more conservative than the rock world at that time. More focused on singles, with few musicians getting any kind of billing or promo compared to singers. It was more like Top 40, though there was definitely a progressive edge to some of what was going on. The problem was, there wasn't as sizable a fanbase in the R&B community for bands, rather than solo singers or vocal groups. There was never going to be a "Led Zeppelin of R&B".

BTW, I have that Temptations compilation and love it.

[Smörgåsbord]

I cut some of the cover tunes but had to keep 'Summer Breeze', if not for the cool new arrangement then definitely for the excellent extended Guitar solo Ernie takes to finish the tune out. This solo is one of his best ever (and I'm a big fan of his work). They do nice versions of 'Listen to the Music' and 'Sunshine Go Away Today' but the only other reason to own 3+3 is for 'That Lady' ... that is if you haven't heard it too many times in your life already.

I agree 100% with this. I LOVE early 70s IB. The guitar solo on Summer Breeze is like … 2,5 minutes? Amazing guitarist. I also like Ron Isley's ultra soft soul of later years very much as well (Body Kiss, Eternal).

[JJ88]

I'd say the R&B business was more conservative than the rock world at that time. More focused on singles, with few musicians getting any kind of billing or promo compared to singers. It was more like Top 40, though there was definitely a progressive edge to some of what was going on. The problem was, there wasn't as sizable a fanbase in the R&B community for bands, rather than solo singers or vocal groups. There was never going to be a "Led Zeppelin of R&B".

BTW, I have that Temptations compilation and love it.

I thought you meant musically. Yes, I gather Motown in particular was like that. Famously Berry Gordy didn't want to put out 'What's Going On'- that song really represented a significant break (musically and lyrically) from the label's typical output. Meanwhile by the mid 70s Stax had disappeared and Atlantic had basically moved away from R&B in favour of rock.

[profusion]

I thought you meant musically. Yes, I gather Motown in particular was like that. Famously Berry Gordy didn't want to put out 'What's Going On'- that song really represented a significant break (musically and lyrically) from the label's typical output. Meanwhile by the mid 70s Stax had disappeared and Atlantic had basically moved away from R&B in favour of rock.

The business affected the music that was put out, of course, and what the musicians did to keep food on the table. In the early '70s, there was definitely a movement towards "progressive soul" and a wealth of great acts expanding the musical boundaries way beyond the traditional Motown "hit factory" approach. The problem was, there wasn't a radio format to take advantage of it. The black music industry really only had the equivalent of Top 40 radio, which wouldn't play long or experimental songs (with the occasional exception like "Papa Was a Rolling Stone" or Stevie Wonder).

Imagine if Pink Floyd, Yes and Led Zeppelin had had no promotional avenue except Top 40. They would have died on the vine. That's essentially what happened to so many imaginative black artists in the '70s. The great funk bands either died away or went "uptown" with slicker, simpler music that could get radio play. Hell, that's what the Isley Bros. did after 1979.

However, I didn't mean to derail an awesome thread devoted to one of my favorite soul/funk bands. I probably listen more to classic funk and soul now than I do prog.

[MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER]

Well, that and Whitfield pulled a Jimmy Miller (Blind Faith & Rolling Stones producer) and developed a drug habit. X)

I love this 2 CD compilation:

3094

In addition to Papa Was A Rolling Stone, there's

Runaway Child, Running Wild 9:32
Take A Stroll Thru Your Mind 8:33
Smiling Faces Sometimes 12:40
Masterpiece 13:48

I also love the different mix of Ball of Confusion that they use. Great compilation for those in to that kind of thang.While the Isleys really had no Prog-y tendencies, one can easily make a case for the Temptations creating some capital P Progressive music... and Rock like a mutha too!

[JJ88]

Digging out '3+3' again I'm reminded that I like 'Don't Let Me Be Lonely Tonight' more than the original as well. It's like a different song altogether, a jazzier arrangement, slower tempo and a great lead vocal.

[Blah_Blah_Woof_Woof]

Harvest For the World makes me cry.

Ernie's solo album from 1990 was pretty good- I used to play a cassette copy in my car for a while

[profusion]

While the Isleys really had no Prog-y tendencies, one can easily make a case for the Temptations creating some capital P Progressive music... and Rock like a mutha too!

Definitely. The funny thing was, the Temps themselves eventually got sick of being merely a single ingredient in Whitfield's epic productions for them. They fired him as producer and went towards a more aggressive and condensed funk approach--which paid off on A Song For You, which is an incredible album.

[MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER]

Harvest For the World makes me cry.

Ernie's solo album from 1990 was pretty good- I used to play a cassette copy in my car for a whileDefinitely! High Wire is a great solo album... suffers from a bit of late 80s style production stigmas but nearly every piece on that album is great!

[Rand Kelly]

I have always wondered how Ernie Isley gets that "Bubble Tone" on the studio version of Who's That Lady? I have never heard anything like it since. Just guessing it sounds like a Phase Shifter set on very slow rate,but then there's something else going on too.

[Vic2012]

Never was a big fan but I did like "Who's That Lady" and loved their cover of "Summer Breeze." Didn't these guys also do "Shout" or whatever the title is? ...you know you make me wanna shout .....bla bla bla. Was that the Isleys or some other group?

I remember when Who's That Lady was a huge hit and all we talked about was the guitar solo. I honestly didn't think it was anything all that special. Ernie had this phased out, distorted sound that didn't sound too cool at the time. I havn't heard much of him since then but I understand he's a monster player. I haven't check out that youtube thing yet but will try later.

[GuitarGeek]

I have always wondered how Ernie Isley gets that "Bubble Tone" on the studio version of Who's That Lady? I have never heard anything like it since. Just guessing it sounds like a Phase Shifter set on very slow rate,but then there's something else going on too.

Fuzz and phaser. I think the model is an early one Roland made in the mid 70's, which I believe was also favored by Uli Jon Roth during his Scorpions years.

[JJ88]

Never was a big fan but I did like "Who's That Lady" and loved their cover of "Summer Breeze." Didn't these guys also do "Shout" or whatever the title is? ...you know you make me wanna shout .....bla bla bla. Was that the Isleys or some other group?

As I said earlier in the thread, 'Shout' was indeed theirs. The Beatles recorded it for a TV show but I'd say the most famous version now is Lulu's. The Isley Brothers' version had more of a gospel feel, being some 5 minutes long. 'Twist And Shout' was also a hit by them- again famous from The Beatles' version.

The other two big hits before the '3 + 3' album were 'This Old Heart Of Mine' (when they were briefly on Motown) and 'It's Your Thing'. The latter started their transition to a more funk-meets-rock sound, I think.

[GuitarGeek]

As I said earlier in the thread, 'Shout' was indeed theirs. The Beatles recorded it for a TV show but I'd say the most famous version now is Lulu's.

Maybe in Wales the Lulu version is the most famous, but Stateside, I dare say the most famous version is the one heard in the toga party scene in Animal House.

As far as musicians not getting as much attention in R&B as compared to the singers, that's the way it was across the board in popular music back in the 60's and 70's. Unless you were in a band like The Ventures, The Beatles or The Beach Boys , the singer's name was the only one that was on the album cover (and even then, that didn't necessarily mean you were the one playing on the record itself).

Most people have no idea who Tommy Tedesco, Hal Blaine, Carole Kaye, James Jamerson, etc were because they were typically not credited on the respective records they played on. The reason people know Glen Campbell isn't because of his career as a session player, but for his subsequent career as a vocalist. And I think a lot of people still don't know how many records Jimmy Page played on before The Yardbirds and that other band he was in subsequently (what were they called again?).

That's changing now, to an extent because a lot of attention has been focused on session players in the years since. The reason I know about these people is because Guitar Player wrote articles on them in the 80's (Jamerson was featured in the same issue of Guitar Player as Eddie Van Halen's first cover, for instance) and because I'm one of those geeks who actually read the musician credits on the reissues. And there's been documentaries done on The Wrecking Crew and the Motown session players.

And at least in the case of Motown, I think there was a deliberate effort to obfuscate who was responsible for what you heard on some of those records. Apparently, the Holland/Dozier/Holland songwriting team got big headed when they realized it was their songs that was generating many of the hits for The Supremes and others at Motown, and I guess other people took notice and were offering them better deals. So after Berry Gordy parted company with them, he took to crediting the songwriting and production on at least some of the records (specifically the Jackson 5 releases) to "The Corporation", so none of his competitors would be able to "steal" the guys who were paying for his Cadillac or whatever.

[bobert]

Definitely! High Wire is a great solo album... suffers from a bit of late 80s style production stigmas but nearly every piece on that album is great!

Agreed , I have High Wire , some fantastic playing by Ernie.

[JKL2000]

Back in the 70s I had a key weekend where my whole 7th grade class went to this touchy-feely "retreat" to sit around bonding, rapping, and getting in touch with our feelings. It was a load of fun, and the song that the staff had chosen as our "anthem" for the weekend was the Isley's "For the Love of You." Ahh, the '70s!

[Jeremy Bender]

I'm one of those geeks who actually read the musician credits on the reissuesMe too! :) Also: the engineers, 2nd engineers, where it was recorded etc. I'm a big fan of how particular studios sound, it's not an accident that the Yes albums (TYA, Fragile, CttE) and ELP albums (debut through Trilogy) sound so good, they were all recorded at Advision with Eddie Offord.

I drive by what used to be the United Western complex on Sunset Boulevard all the time. United was used for people like Sinatra, Western was where stuff like the Mamas and Papas and especially most of Pet Sounds were done. When Wally Heider built his studio in Hollywood, he modeled it exactly after Western's studio #2. It's amazing, but for a while, there was an area of Hollywood, say Highland to Gower, W to E and Hollywood to Santa Monica N to S that housed the studios that so many great albums were made at.


And there's been documentaries done on The Wrecking Crew and the Motown session playersThey should do one on the Philly guys, MFSB. Mother Father Sister Brother or Muthaf**kin' Studio Band, your choice. :)

I think of the Motown players and the Wrecking Crew both as having two different editions. For Motown, it was an easy divide: did you move to Los Angeles ca. 1970 or not? Jamerson was really sad, he became a messy alcoholic ca. 1968 and he didn't want to change his approach; bass sounds were becoming more treble-y, brighter and Jamerson reputedly never once changed the strings on his P-bass. People like Bob Babbit picked up the slack and got a lot of the work that would have gone to Jamerson.

For the Wrecking Crew, Hal Blaine the drummer was a constant but the guys and Carol Kaye that played on the Spector records were followed by a core of Blaine, Larry Knechtel on keyboards and the great Joe Osborn, one of my bass playing heroes. There's a documentary about the making of Simon & Garfunkel's Bridge Over Troubled Water album, which Blaine, Knechtel and Osborn played on and Paul Simon was in awe of them. He said they could pick up stuff instantly, play any style and they did it all without being jaded session guys. Larry Knetchtel spent 4 days perfecting the piano part to the song BOTW with Simon, but he also played the bass part on The Byrds Mr. Tambourine Man and the great wah-wah guitar leads on Bread's Guitar Man. What a musician!

[Vic2012]

As I said earlier in the thread, 'Shout' was indeed theirs. The Beatles recorded it for a TV show but I'd say the most famous version now is Lulu's.

Well, I must've skimmed over the thread. I kinda knew that SHOUT was there song, I just wasn't sure because there were so many vocal, R&B groups back then that had their hits covered by white acts and such. I do remember hearing the Beatles version once many years ago. I don't remember seeing the performance on TV or anything but I know I've heard the audio. Lulu? Had no idea she did the song. I remember a singer named Lulu in the early 60s but she could've been Petula Clark or Dusty Springfield for all I knew.


'Twist And Shout' was also a hit by them- again famous from The Beatles' version.

Right, wow I'd completely forgotten about that. Honestly, to me that song and whatever Chuck Berry songs the Beatles covered (Rollover Beethoven, Rock & Roll Music, etc.) were always Beatles songs to me.

[Yellow Jester]

Which one is the one with Living In The Life on it? Is that Go For Your Guns? You get the vocal track, then it ends then you hear an instrumental version of the exact same track, with Ernie wailing over the backing track. Another track I remember liking by them was Climbing Up The Ladder (or was it Climbing Up The Mountain?).

Sorry, it's been a long time since I've listened to The Isleys. But it's a damn shame that Ernie's name isn't mentioned in the same breath as Hendrix, Beck, Page, Clapton, etc. He's definitely ever bit as brilliant a guitarist as the more famous guitar gods.

BTW, I'm not sure Ernie actually "picked up" anything from Jimi, other than in the same way millions of other guitarists around the world did. It's often reported that Jimi taught Ernie to play, but I read an interview with one of the other guys who played in the Isley Bros. band, and he said that Ernie wasn't even playing guitar yet when Jimi was in the band. It is true that Jimi lived with the Isleys when he was playing with them, because he couldn't afford his own place (he was apparently chronically getting thrown out of apartments because he couldn't pay rent), so Ernie probably hung out with Jimi a lot, but I have the impression Ernie didn't actually start playing guitar until a couple years later.

Now, I remember Ernie saying one time that he had a dream where Jimi visited him, and in the dream, Jimi played Ernie's guitar, right hand style. Jimi said to him "left, right, doesn't make any difference". So after that, Ernie taught himself how to play the guitar southpaw style.

And yeah, there was a lot of really cool R&B and funk stuff during the early and mid 70's. That was the era of Funkadelic, the early Earth Wind And Fire (who had some really cool funk tracks on their first three or four albums), and the Norman Whitfield produced Temptations albums. Story goes that The Temptations eventually rebelled against Whitfield, because he was putting these long tracks that would have like 10 minutes of the band jamming with two minutes of the Temptations themselves actually singing.

Both "Living In The Life" & "Climbing Up The Ladder" are from The Isley Bros. "Go For Your Guns" album. And yes, Ernie Isley is one of the most under-rated musicians ever. Not only did he play great Jimi Hendrix influenced lead guitar, he also played the drums on The Isley Bros. during the mid '70s. Also, it's true that The Temptations had a falling out with their producer, Norman Whitfield, by the mid '70s. Group member Otis Williams mentioned in his book on the group, "Temptations", that the group were tired of the long songs (which were mostly instrumental).

[MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER]

Ernie Isley is one of the most under-rated musicians ever. Not only did he play great Jimi Hendrix influenced lead guitar, he also played the drums on The Isley Bros. during the mid '70s.To be sure, Ernie's drumming was pretty average though I must admit. His Guitar work is quite excellent though.

I must say I never imagined this thread to get 2 responses, much less get to 2 pages!
You guys are very cool Prog fans :up