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View Full Version : A little help with choosing a Fender Bass



markowitz
12-10-2013, 10:51 PM
I'm hoping some of the players here don't mind helping me with choosing a Fender bass. I'm thinking Jazz bass, since my hands are becoming arthritic and I have heard that the Jazz bass has a more user friendly neck. I'm currently playing a nice Ibanez that keeps having issues with the active electronics. It has a through and through neck and has great sound, but it makes me want to get away from active electronics and use something simple, with good sound that is easy to play. I'm looking to spend around 1200$ or so. Any other strong recommendations in that price range would be welcome as well. When I was young I used to play a Rickenbacker as Squire was my hero. That neck was very difficult for me. I mostly make originals and play with friends who play anything from blues, rock, country or pop.

Thanks for any and all help offered.

Mike

rapidfirerob
12-10-2013, 11:16 PM
I would join Talk Bass and ask the bass players there. A Jazz is a good option, but there's lots of basses out there.
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f45/

markowitz
12-11-2013, 12:37 AM
Great site, thanks for the link.

trurl
12-11-2013, 11:29 AM
Just from a tone point of view a Jazz would be my choice, like maybe a Geddy re-issue. But it's such a personal thing and i can't really speak to the feel; i don't really play.

klothos
12-11-2013, 12:38 PM
I recommend any bass with two pickups, one in the mid-position and one at the bridge, like a Jazz Bass. However, it should be known that Fender offers a wide variety of instrumental variations: standard P-Basses just have the one split PU at the mid position but there are models of P-Basses with two pickup P/J configurations, one with two Js, one with two Ps, and a few with a split pickup and a MM style pickup at the bridge..... The point is, go for two pickups in a mid-bridge configuration (not neck PU - those are too bassy/boomy and will get in the way when playing slap bass) and I also recommend that the bridge PU be a single-coil, like a Jazz (not the MM)

Why? For one, they are way more flexible, tone-wise. With both PUs dimed, Having a pick-up at the bridge helps immensely for articulation in tone and presence when playing with fingers or slap. There is actually a sweet spot in tonal combination by ever so slightly rolling back the mid PU but thats for later. I am not a "set-it-and-forget-it-player": twin single coil pickups allows me to rollback tone, solo the bridge PU and dial in "faux fretless" a la Jaco even on a fretted bass (staccato plucking at the bridge/ slightly sliding notes - optional is to add a little chorus). By itself, it doesnt sound like a fretless, but in the context of a band its reasonable facsimile. For modern rock, fresh strings with both PUs dimed. For slap bass, same thing with a little tone cut depending on one's technique. For "faux upright", roll tone back, solo the mid pu and play with the side of your thumb like a pick BUT palm-muting the whole time. Utilizing techniques like this has kept me working and bills paid for a loooong time

Every bass I own with the exception of one, a Stingray (see avatar), has TWO pickups in a mid-bridge configuration....I only play my Stingray in situations that don't warrant the flexibility

Standard single P-Basses, like my Stingray, are too limiting. A standard P-Bass with roundwound strings and a pick IS a gooid sound but Im not going to buy a bass for one sound AND I dont play with a pick either. (and I could still get that sound on a P/J bass just by soloing the P-Pickup)

For the record, my primary bass is a G&L ASAT that I keep the PUs in single-coil mode, occasionally using the mid PU in humbucking to simulate a classic P at times.

If you are not concerned about playing non-USA Fenders, the Fender Jaguar bass with the two Jazz pickups and the series/parallel switching is phenomenal

WHEN TRYING OUT BASSES: Try them out ACOUSTICALLY, without plugging them in. If the neck feels good and the bass is loud without amplification and resonates/sings, that is the one you want


MOST IMPORTANT: for excellent modern tone it doesn't matter what amp you use - CHANGE YOUR STRINGS. Keep strings fresh. You can dial out highs but they cant be dialed in on dead strings. There is an old saying "You cant polish a turd"

Yodelgoat
12-11-2013, 01:05 PM
Why only a Fender?

I like alot of different basses, my first was a $30 Danelectro from a pawnshop, I did play a Fender Jazz for years, but they are a little dull - IMO. Ricks are probably the most fun to play, I prefer the neck on the Precision over the Jazz. I also love the Steinberger, which I played for a while, fun but it is limited in its tones.

On the other hand, the great Geddy Lee can play whatever he wants and chooses to play a Jazz - thats a little perplexing to me as to why, but it is a matter of personal taste (and for me, what you can afford). For the past 20 years I've played an Ibanez Roadstar series 2 - looks a bit like a P-bass but is smaller, much lighter, and I can get just about any tone imaginable out of it. Plus it just feels right in my hands... and it was cheap < $400, oh and the back shape of the instrument has a perfect curve to match the outward curve of my belly - so I look 30 pounds lighter with this than with other basses.

klothos
12-11-2013, 01:31 PM
On the other hand, the great Geddy Lee can play whatever he wants and chooses to play a Jazz - thats a little perplexing to me as to why, but it is a matter of personal taste (and for me, what you can afford).


Because it was his black '73 Jazz bass that he mostly recorded with in the 70s and early 80s for that "growl" Jazzes are known for. For a picture, check the inner sleeve of the "Moving Pictures" album.
Tom Sawyer? Jazz. Limelight? Jazz. Spirit of The Radio? Jazz. La Villa Strangiato? Jazz. Occasionally he recorded with the Ric, such as Vital Signs (you can hear the "throaty" quality of the Ric on its main riff)

Its because he used the Rics live is why everyone assumes he always recorded with a Ric and I am amazed how many basses Rickenbacker must have sold to players trying to get Geddy's studio Jazz sound

Yodelgoat
12-11-2013, 01:46 PM
Because it was his black '73 Jazz bass that he mostly recorded with in the 70s and early 80s. For a picture, check the inner sleeve of the "Moving Pictures" album. Tom Sawyer? Jazz. Limelight? Jazz. Spirit of The Radio? Jazz. La Villa Strangiato? Jazz. Occasionally he recorded with the Ric, such as Vital Signs (you can hear the "burpy" quality of the Ric on its main riff)

Its because he used the Rics live is why everyone assumes he always recorded with a Ric and I am amazed how many basses Rickenbacker must have sold to players trying to get Geddy's studio Jazz sound

Yes, I'm aware of the basses Geddy used in the studio, but since he plays his own material, and has developed his own sound using the Jazz, he can stay with it I like his sound Mui bueno on the past few albums. Ricks look great and unique, but they cant really get other bass sounds very well. I traded my Jazz for a Rick 4002, and though it was more fun to play than the Jazz, I eventually got rid of it, because of its limited sound profile. Ai gdree with you - I bet Geddy made Rickenbacker a whole lotta cash.

klothos
12-11-2013, 01:57 PM
I had a 4001 and a 4003S8 (the 8-String) over my not-so-illustrious career..... although I play variety (including country), funk/ modern-jazz/ nu-blues are my fortes and the Rics just didn't cut it for those.....The 8-String was more bizzarre because the octave string was on the bottom (on my Hamer 12-String, the 8vas are on top)

I agree with you about the "fun to play" part: my 4001 had a fast, low profile neck that was to die for

rapidfirerob
12-11-2013, 02:22 PM
Great site, thanks for the link.
Hope to see you on Talk Bass. I'm Rapidfirerob on there as well.
I did buy a Danelectric Longhorn Reissue last year. Light, easy to play, no issues at all. Thin and short
scale neck. Good luck!

markowitz
12-11-2013, 03:04 PM
Thanks for all the ideas. I can't believe that after about 38 years of playing bass, I'm thinking of getting a Jazz bass. I can understand Yodel goat's comment about Geddy Lee : He can play any bass he wants, why does he choose a Fender Jazz bass?!? I always thought that fenders did not look that great and was a 4001 player and Squire wanta be. Never could play The Fish all that well, and liked the bassy boominess of Entwistle's bass. I did not like the clickness and treble that Squire used so well to his advantage. Course it was the Ox's and Squire's playing that I was really drawn to, and even with a good amp and a 4001, it is not so easy to play like Squire (at least for me). I remember people saying Hendrix could pick up a garage sale guitar with old strings and make magic with it.

I will look at the Danelectric LR and some others, but am trying to avoid any active electronics(not sure if that one has it) that is forcing me to find another bass. Maybe I am over reacting to the pre amp problems with my current bass, but I like simplicity if it delivers. No battery, plug (and leave the plug in without wearing out the battery) and play. I was thinking standard american jazz bass, but will continue to browse the talkbass site which is full of opinions and exerienced players as well. I have a 400$ Ibanez too, and really like that bass. Maybe I should put new strings on that and see how it sounds. It does feel really good against the body and in the hands. Great tips from Klothos and I agree on playing a bass acoustically to check it out, it does tell a lot. I did spend years learning that you can not "dial cannot polish a turd". I was young and broke and mistakenly thought that strings did not make a big difference when I was younger. I remember reading an interview with Eric Clapton on how he didn't change strings much at all (why did I think this would even extrapolate to bass?) and believed that maybe cause it agreed with my laziness and pocket book. It's exciting looking for new equipment, but still working full time for a living, I wish I was playing more than buying new stuff.

progmatist
12-11-2013, 03:35 PM
If you like the way Fenders play and the way Ricks sound, get a Jazz Bass and replace the pickups (or only the neck pickup) with Lace Aluma-J's. They have a very Rick like sound.

trurl
12-11-2013, 04:08 PM
Why not stick with Ibanez and get one that's not active? Every bass player I've ever worked with that played Ibanez loves it and they always sound good. Although when Steve (in GH) pulled his Ibanez back out last year it didn't stack up to his Yamaha very well.

markowitz
12-11-2013, 11:08 PM
Thinking about the Ibanezes I have....the high end model with active electronics is beloved by the guitar player I play with and he is a sound engineer/decent luthier who can fix these things. Maybe sell that to him and I will either get a Jazz bass, or maybe save the money and use it to replace the strings on the lower end Ibanez for life! Every 3months. I don't really like the sound of the 4001 Ricks in my hands. I love it in Squire's and others though, so I probably would not mess with pick ups much. I also have an Ernie Ball 5 String Sting Ray, but did not fall in love with the 5th string, in this case the lower B. I should probably move that one too.

klothos
12-12-2013, 11:30 AM
Good luck on your next bass.....Im a member of Talkbass also ( I am also a Moderator on Musicians Friend Harmony Central forum) but I hardly chat on TalkBass.

markowitz
12-12-2013, 07:50 PM
Thanks Klothos. Working too much to be on too many forums right now, but have bookmarked those for later info. Appreciate all the expertise and help from everyone.

rapidfirerob
12-13-2013, 01:58 AM
Talk Bass is the best!

Pekka
12-14-2013, 08:32 AM
Because it was his black '73 Jazz bass that he mostly recorded with in the 70s and early 80s for that "growl" Jazzes are known for. For a picture, check the inner sleeve of the "Moving Pictures" album.
Tom Sawyer? Jazz. Limelight? Jazz. Spirit of The Radio? Jazz. La Villa Strangiato? Jazz. Occasionally he recorded with the Ric, such as Vital Signs (you can hear the "throaty" quality of the Ric on its main riff)

Its because he used the Rics live is why everyone assumes he always recorded with a Ric and I am amazed how many basses Rickenbacker must have sold to players trying to get Geddy's studio Jazz sound

"Vital Signs" is a Jazz Bass too, the only songs he used the Ric on "Moving Pictures" are "Red Barchetta" and "The Camera Eye". A good way to compare Geddy's Jazz Bass and Rickenbacker sounds is playing "The Spirit Of Radio" and "Freewill" back to back (easy anyway:)).

He used the Rick a lot in the studio too, especially in the seventies since he got the Jazz Bass only in 1979 (so that rules out "La Villa Strangiato"). The first album is a Precision but after that until "Permanent Waves" it's pretty much the 4001.

Pekka
12-14-2013, 08:44 AM
[QUOTE=klothos;193032
Standard single P-Basses, like my Stingray, are too limiting. A standard P-Bass with roundwound strings and a pick IS a gooid sound but Im not going to buy a bass for one sound AND I dont play with a pick either. (and I could still get that sound on a P/J bass just by soloing the P-Pickup)

[/QUOTE]

I don't agree that a standard P-Bass is too limiting. Leo knew something when he installed that pickup in that exact position and it's easy to change the sound moving your picking/plucking hand. To me, the P-bass is one of the most versatile basses ever. Sounds great direct, with amp, clean, distorted, slapped etc.

I also don't agree that the Rickenbackers are one-trick pony's that they are often accused of. The bass has two pickups and even if they aren't in the traditional Jazz Bass positions but closer to the neck you can still get plenty of different sounds, especially from the mid-'80's and onwards models when the low-cut capacitor was removed. Same kind of dialling between the pickups works with the Ric too and while you can't get it to sound like a Jazz Bass ('though 4002 with it's similar pickup positions is a different matter) you can't get a Jazz Bass to sound like a Ric either. It has a great slap sound too which usually surprises people.

Yodelgoat
12-14-2013, 10:12 AM
I also don't agree that the Rickenbackers are one-trick pony's that they are often accused of. ('though 4002 with it's similar pickup positions is a different matter) .

I've only owned the 4002 - I found it to be its own beast. I cant say that any of the others had the same limitations.

As for the P-bass. I liked them Only played one in a stage band environment, so I pretty much just played with what was there. Lots of them around, so they do have a lot of fans.

I do find my Ibanez very versitile - and it has a lovely neck. Whats wrong with active pickups again? I replace my battery about every 4 years, but then, I dont play the bass every day and I dont leave it plugged in. I've probably replaced the jack more than the battery.

Guitarplyrjvb
12-14-2013, 01:04 PM
Thanks for all the ideas. I can't believe that after about 38 years of playing bass, I'm thinking of getting a Jazz bass.

The reason I got a Jazz bass was because I was mainly a guitarist and the thinner neck of a Jazz was easier to negotiate. I would think that if you're having mobility problems with your hands, a thin-necked Jazz would be the way to go! Good luck!

Pekka
12-14-2013, 01:14 PM
I've only owned the 4002 - I found it to be its own beast. I cant say that any of the others had the same limitations.

A rare beast indeed, never played or even seen one. Many Rickenbacker enthusiasts get very excited when 4002 is mentioned. Geddy had one but rarely played it, I wonder why since he likes the Jazz so much.

Plasmatopia
12-14-2013, 01:46 PM
I had a nice American Masters 5-string with active pickups. A very nice bass, but after several years I just couldn't get used to that B string...it would start flopping around at the slightest provocation and I found muting it properly to be difficult.

But the biggest thing I didn't like about that bass was that there were too many options for tone! I guess I just like things to be simple when it comes to these sorts of things. I don't want processors that make me wade through screen after screen of settings that I will find to be inadequate/non-ideal when I get to a different venue. Give me a very small handful of knobs to turn.

That's why I love playing a P-bass.

Last night I ordered a new neck and pick guard for my cheap-o made-in-Mexico P-bass. I'm putting a nice $350+ neck on a $275 bass, lol.

klothos
12-14-2013, 03:17 PM
I don't agree that a standard P-Bass is too limiting. Leo knew something when he installed that pickup in that exact position and it's easy to change the sound moving your picking/plucking hand. To me, the P-bass is one of the most versatile basses ever. Sounds great direct, with amp, clean, distorted, slapped etc.

I also don't agree that the Rickenbackers are one-trick pony's that they are often accused of. The bass has two pickups and even if they aren't in the traditional Jazz Bass positions but closer to the neck you can still get plenty of different sounds, especially from the mid-'80's and onwards models when the low-cut capacitor was removed. Same kind of dialling between the pickups works with the Ric too and while you can't get it to sound like a Jazz Bass ('though 4002 with it's similar pickup positions is a different matter) you can't get a Jazz Bass to sound like a Ric either. It has a great slap sound too which usually surprises people.


Where the pickup is positioned is the voice...With a single P-Pickup: All that happens when you move your plucking hand is get variations of ONE voice - its like making vowel sounds with one mouth

Twin pickups gives the person TWO voices to work with - I can make a Jazz Bass sound like Jaco by soloing the bridge PU and rolling back tone, I can dime both pickups and get a modern slap sound thats articulate because of the bridge voice, but I can also solo the mid -pickup and roll back tone to get a P-Bass sound out of one if I wanted to (granted, a lot thinner - but the voice is there - but the whole reason to own a Jazz is to not sound like a P-Bass ;))... A player can never get a bass with a single mid-mounted P-Bass pickup to sound even remotely like a Jazz and you can never get the nasal quality of the Jaco sound simply because a bridge pickup is non-existant on a standard P-Bass, no matter if you are plucking almost on top of the saddles

Most modern flagship bass designs mimic the Jazz voicings/formula by pickup placement (mid/bridge)....Ric basses have rear pickup mounted where MM pickups are and one almost at the neck. It has its own unique sound : two completely different voices that a Jazz can't mimic but, for articulation, mid/bridge is favored by most companies on their flagship lines, including Ibanez and Peavey, weather or not they are single coils, splittables, humbuckers, soapbars, or their own proprietary design. Even Gibson, who long favored making basses like guitars with similar pickup positioning, now favors mid/bridge (see the new EB basses or the new Les Paul bass)



"Vital Signs" is a Jazz Bass too, the only songs he used the Ric on "Moving Pictures" are "Red Barchetta" and "The Camera Eye". A good way to compare Geddy's Jazz Bass and Rickenbacker sounds is playing "The Spirit Of Radio" and "Freewill" back to back (easy anyway:)).

He used the Rick a lot in the studio too, especially in the seventies since he got the Jazz Bass only in 1979 (so that rules out "La Villa Strangiato"). The first album is a Precision but after that until "Permanent Waves" it's pretty much the 4001.


are you sure? Thats not how I understood it - also, the main riff of Vital Signs sounds like a Ric ....I never heard a Jazz sound like that although, granted, it could be a Jazz through a phase shifter


Just did a little research: Geddy used his P-Bass to record a lot BUT Geddy's P-Bass has a Jazz pickup mounted at the bridge, so he has a mid/bridge configuration - his bass is designed to mimic a Jazz. This is why the first album bass parts have the cut and growl

Here is a pic of Geddy's P-Bass (its the one he butchered into a tear-drop shape by cutting the cutaways off - note the J pickup at the bridge). I guess he liked Vox (shrug)

http://beta.images.theglobeandmail.com/archive/00682/geddy-guitars_682950gm-f.jpg

edit: just listened to "La Villa" -- yeah, youre right: thats a Ric

Pekka
12-15-2013, 01:21 AM
Where the pickup is positioned is the voice...With a single P-Pickup: All that happens when you move your plucking hand is get variations of ONE voice - its like making vowel sounds with one mouth

Twin pickups gives the person TWO voices to work with - I can make a Jazz Bass sound like Jaco by soloing the bridge PU and rolling back tone, I can dime both pickups and get a modern slap sound thats articulate because of the bridge voice, but I can also solo the mid -pickup and roll back tone to get a P-Bass sound out of one if I wanted to (granted, a lot thinner - but the voice is there - but the whole reason to own a Jazz is to not sound like a P-Bass ;))... A player can never get a bass with a single mid-mounted P-Bass pickup to sound even remotely like a Jazz and you can never get the nasal quality of the Jaco sound simply because a bridge pickup is non-existant on a standard P-Bass, no matter if you are plucking almost on top of the saddles

Most modern flagship bass designs mimic the Jazz voicings/formula by pickup placement (mid/bridge)....Ric basses have rear pickup mounted where MM pickups are and one almost at the neck. It has its own unique sound : two completely different voices that a Jazz can't mimic but, for articulation, mid/bridge is favored by most companies on their flagship lines, including Ibanez and Peavey, weather or not they are single coils, splittables, humbuckers, soapbars, or their own proprietary design. Even Gibson, who long favored making basses like guitars with similar pickup positioning, now favors mid/bridge (see the new EB basses or the new Les Paul bass)

Of course, I just wanted to say that to me P-bass isn't that limiting even with it's one single voice. Also, as you said, you can get close to a P with a Jazz but not exact.










are you sure? Thats not how I understood it - also, the main riff of Vital Signs sounds like a Ric ....I never heard a Jazz sound like that although, granted, it could be a Jazz through a phase shifter

He could have used the front pickup only. Anyway, sounds different to me than for example "Red Barchetta". The whole album has so much distortion on bass that makes it difficult to tell sometimes but Geddy used to record his Rick in stereo (both pickups to different amps) and that gives the Ric tracks some distinction. We're getting close now to what really matters in music...:lol



Just did a little research: Geddy used his P-Bass to record a lot BUT Geddy's P-Bass has a Jazz pickup mounted at the bridge, so he has a mid/bridge configuration - his bass is designed to mimic a Jazz. This is why the first album bass parts have the cut and growl

Here is a pic of Geddy's P-Bass (its the one he butchered into a tear-drop shape by cutting the cutaways off - note the J pickup at the bridge). I guess he liked Vox (shrug)

http://beta.images.theglobeandmail.com/archive/00682/geddy-guitars_682950gm-f.jpg

edit: just listened to "La Villa" -- yeah, youre right: thats a Ric

You could've done a bit more research.;) Geddy's P-bass was in it's original form and shape when they recorded the first album, he only butchered and ruined it later.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZYr_J9H54I

Plenty of cut and growl, it's just a matter of amps and playing style.
Not sure if Geddy ever recorded the teardrop P/J, he wasn't too happy with it's sound according to an old interview. Played it live 'though so maybe it's on some of the "All The World's A Stage" tracks.

klothos
12-15-2013, 02:51 AM
-snip-

thanks for the info, Pekka :up

Pekka
12-15-2013, 03:08 AM
About the original question: early Squier JV series Jazz Basses are an excellent choice, they were made approx. in 1982-1984. Prices are getting higher 'though but with good luck you can grab one quite cheaply.
New Fender Jazz Basses made in Japan are superb too. They have plenty of versions to choose from 'though I'm not sure if every model is available outside Japan.

I have big hands and sometimes the thin Jazz neck is almost too thin or narrow for me. Same with the Thunderbird, my '76 T-Bird has even narrower neck at the saddle end than my Jazz Bass.

I absolutely love the Telecaster Bass (or the original single coil Precision Bass) neck. The good old baseball bat!:)

Pekka
12-15-2013, 03:13 AM
thanks for the info, Pekka :up

You too. Plenty of good info about how the pickup placement contributes to the sound or voice of the bass. Not many think about it at all and say it doesn't matter. Why then the 70's Jazzes with bridge pickup closer to the bridge sound different than the 60's Jazz with the bridge PU farther?:)

I see you have your P/J bass with a reverse P config (from the gear thread). I prefer that config too in P/J basses. Yamaha BB2000 style.

markowitz
12-16-2013, 11:12 AM
Great info, Pekka, thanks.

wideopenears
12-16-2013, 06:43 PM
Where the pickup is positioned is the voice...With a single P-Pickup: All that happens when you move your plucking hand is get variations of ONE voice - its like making vowel sounds with one mouth

Twin pickups gives the person TWO voices to work with - I can make a Jazz Bass sound like Jaco by soloing the bridge PU and rolling back tone, I can dime both pickups and get a modern slap sound thats articulate because of the bridge voice, but I can also solo the mid -pickup and roll back tone to get a P-Bass sound out of one if I wanted to (granted, a lot thinner - but the voice is there - but the whole reason to own a Jazz is to not sound like a P-Bass ;))... A player can never get a bass with a single mid-mounted P-Bass pickup to sound even remotely like a Jazz and you can never get the nasal quality of the Jaco sound simply because a bridge pickup is non-existant on a standard P-Bass, no matter if you are plucking almost on top of the saddles


This, 100%.