Best live ELP

[Tim35]

In light of the new Live in Montreal 1977, which according to PE might be a turkey, I was hoping the ELP specialists could shed some light on what are the best live ELP available. Please exclude PAAE and Welcome Back since they were released when the band was active and already discussed endlessly.:huh

[JeffCarney]

Long Beach '72 (both the March and July shows)
Buffalo '74
Nurnberg '71
Vienna '70
Ludwigshafen '73

Those are just a few off the top of my head.

Surely the Mar Y Sol CD will be recommended. This is also a great show if a tad overrated.

[Blah_Blah_Woof_Woof]

I was at one of the Long Beach shows, crammed up against the stage. I thought Emerson was going to topple his keyboard onto our heads during the finale. Long Beach is on a TAKRL boot and, I believe, is part of one of the box sets...

I've never heard a show with the orchestra. I'd love to hear Pirates. By the time they reached the West Coast they had jettisoned the orch. Still have the program from that show.

[pbs1902]

Are you looking for officially released CD's or ROIO? Or Both?

[Tim35]

I am looking for the best live stuff (both). However, hopefully I will be able to find and purchase a few of them.

[Tim35]

Thanks for the quick reply Jeff, blah and PBS.

[JeffCarney]

I am looking for the best live stuff (both). However, hopefully I will be able to find and purchase a few of them.

Manticore Vault Boxes should do the trick:

http://www.amazon.com/Manticore-Vaults-Emerson-Lake-Palmer/dp/B00005NFEJ/ref=sr_1_3

http://www.amazon.com/Manticore-Vaults-Emerson-Lake-Palmer/dp/B00005NFEK/ref=pd_sim_m_3

I suppose these could be reissued some time in the near future and the prices would then come down.

[Rufus]

I love the ELPowell live CD's. Recorded for radio but great sounding audio!

[Jeremy Bender]

Jeff didn't include Vols. 3 & 4 of the Manticore Vaults series, but they're not as essential IMO as the first two.

Volume 3 (http://www.amazon.com/Original-Bootleg-Manticore-Vaults-Vol/dp/B000065CTS/ref=sr_1_4?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1386109875&sr=1-4&keywords=Manticore+Vaults)

Volume 4 (http://www.amazon.com/Original-Bootleg-Manticore-Vaults-4/dp/B000FUU2NK/ref=sr_1_3?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1386109875&sr=1-3&keywords=Manticore+Vaults)

Let's be clear here, if you are expecting pristine soundboard quality bootleg recordings, well-balanced and mixed, with no wasted hippies yelling stuff during all the quiet bits, you're out of luck in terms of ELP in the 70's. I've never cared about that stuff, some of my favorite ELP boots (Vienna 1970, for example) sound like they were recorded with two tin cans and a piece of string from another continent. Apart from the primitive, pre-DAT recording gear, so many of the ELP tapes I have are like 23rd generation, each generation sounding worse than the one before it. Ah cassette tapes! :)

That caveat aside, here's a couple of decent places:

The Bootleg Zone (http://bootlegzone.com/index.php?section=302&latest=0)

ELP Live Source (http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~rm2t-smt/html/elp-livesouce.htm#anchor380034)

Not a place to buy, but a good list:

ELP boots (http://fetherston.tripod.com/bootleg.html)

Here's a link to a cool site with LP's from the Amazing Kornyfone label, a big provider of bootleg LP's in the 70's (I used to have the wonderfully titled Celestial Doggie: The Lobster Quadrille and a few King Crimson boots from them).

The Amazing Kornyfone label. (https://theamazingkornyfonelabel.wordpress.com/category/emerson-lake-and-palmer/)

If you get only one ELP bootleg, get Buffalo 7/26/74, it's an amazing BSS show, with great versions of all of the songs and a Pictures at an Exhibition that is mind-blowing.

[SteveSly]

I quite like the "Live At The Albert Hall" live disc from 1993. It was recorded on the "Black Moon" tour. It sounds good and has a decent selection of stuff.

Steve Sly

[polmico]

The poor sound quality of most of the stuff on the Manticore boot boxes is what prevents me from rating them higher (dare I say they're overrated?) and why I quite like the Sol y Mar show. It's real tough for me to make it through that Buffalo show. I can hear Emerson, and I can hear Lake's vox, and the rest is a din. I get that they were "on" for that one, but I can't make it through the noise.

Oops. Mar y Sol.

[Tim35]

I have sampled some of the early concerts including Long Beach '72 on youtube. Some incredible mad passionate playing. This stuff is pure gold. They should assemble a live box set done right. I would pick it up in a second!

[refugee]

I have sampled some of the early concerts including Long Beach '72 on youtube. Some incredible mad passionate playing. This stuff is pure gold. They should assemble a live box set done right. I would pick it up in a second!

Try and track down the 1 March 1974 show from Baton Rouge, that's a really good recording and certainly on a par with the 74 shows in the 2nd box set, it's the full show as well with Pictures.

The MSG show from 1977 with the full orchestra is pretty good as well.

Totally agree with Jeff's other recommendations as well.

[Jeremy Bender]

It's real tough for me to make it through that Buffalo show.To be honest, I've never heard the Manticore Vaults stuff --since I'm only interested in the 1970-74 period, I had all those particular shows already-- but even so, I've had at various times three different versions of the Buffalo show, from various generation tapes, one of which sounds like it might have been EQ'd and fiddled with. Shame you don't like the sound, they really were on fire that night.


Try and track down the 1 March 1974 show from Baton Rouge, that's a really good recording and certainly on a par with the 74 shows in the 2nd box set, it's the full show as well with PicturesSecond that, very listenable and a typically terrific BSS show.


They should assemble a live box set done right. I would pick it up in a second! ELP do an archive release right? Hahahahahahah, not in our lifetimes. Apart from recording the Pictures show at Newcastle, where they worked a couple days on the sound and WBMF in Anaheim, I never got the feeling that they taped a bunch of shows and they're sitting in a vault somewhere. As David Singleton at DGM has pointed out, recording live shows in the early 70's was a real chore, storing that stuff so that it's playable now even more so. Now any band can hook up a DAT machine or something similar to the soundboard and record everything fairly easily. Plus, if any quality sounding live ELP stuff from the 70's existed, how much of it was torched in the fire that destroyed Keith's house in 1975?

I'd be satisfied at this point just to have the Benny the Bouncer and Pictures from the 2/10/74 Anaheim show that makes up WBMF turn up.

[Don Arnold]

...what are the best live ELP available...

If I can jump into your live elp cd's thread Tim35, I don't own any ELP dvd's and would love to pick one up in the near future. I do have the Emerson/Bonilla in Moscow dvd and I think it's great. So, unless I've committed a capital offense jumping in, please do offer your definitive elp dvd (I'll most likely only buy one).

Thanks....(and thanks for the thread interruption Tim35! :)

[Blah_Blah_Woof_Woof]

I've got the boot where they spliced soundbites from Star Trek in between songs. It was funny at the time...

[GuitarGeek]

ELP do an archive release right? Hahahahahahah, not in our lifetimes. Apart from recording the Pictures show at Newcastle, where they worked a couple days on the sound and WBMF in Anaheim, I never got the feeling that they taped a bunch of shows and they're sitting in a vault somewhere. As David Singleton at DGM has pointed out, recording live shows in the early 70's was a real chore, storing that stuff so that it's playable now even more so. Now any band can hook up a DAT machine or something similar to the soundboard and record everything fairly easily.


Why bother with a DAT machine? Why not just use a laptop?

Actually, you could hook a tape machine up to the soundboard even back in the 70's. Granted it would be analog, and it'd have to be a pro grade machine (ie a Nagra or a Studer, something like that) for it to sound good.

At any rate, no matter what, hooking a tape deck of any kind to the soundboard will only insure that you record the soundboard mix, which is designed to sound good in the room in the room on the night. Well, if the sound guy is doing his job right (which isn't always the case), it is. That means if any instruments are a bit louder onstage than they "should" be, they're going to be absent in the board mix, and that will be reflected in any tape made from said mix. Thus, such a tape may not necessarily be all that great when you're listening to it after the fact. Yeah, you might have perfect fidelity (assuming that the levels were kept to where there was no clipping), but the mix may be a bit lopsided, as it were.

I think Robert Fripp said that John Wetton was always left out of the board mix during the 73-74 era King Crimson because he was already plenty loud onstage as it was. Likewise, there's apparently Grateful Dead board tapes from the 80's where Bob Weir is almost completely absent from the board mix, but was "nearly unbearable" on the night because of how loud he was onstage (and also because at the time, he had his amp hooked up to PA speakers, which gave him a really shrill sound).

What Owsley was the Grateful Dead's sound guy, what he'd do was record the mix from the soundboard, then he'd put extra mics onstage for the instruments that were under represented or absent altogether from the board mix. Later, when Betty Cantor or Kidd Candelario were recording the shows, they'd have a separate soundboard hidden backstage or under the stage or wherever, and they'd take a split feed off each mic onstage, so they could do their own mix just for the purposes of getting a good sounding tape. But even then, sometimes it's not perfect (and it's probably going to be very dry, with no reverb or echo, other than what might be happening onstage).

[Tim35]

I watched the live performance of PAAE you tube. It was awesome.

[AncientChord]

IMHO the best live official release is the performance from the Mar y Sol Festival, held in Puerto Rico on January 4, 1972. The sound quality on this is so good, you would think that a then 5 year old Steven Wilson mixed it! And the performance? BLISTERING HOT! There's an early version of Hoedown, and again IMO, the most jaw-dropping performance of Tarkus that I've ever heard! DO NOT miss this one. :up

[Adm.Kirk]

I'm in the Mar y Sol camp. What an amazing performance. By far the best live ELP I've heard. Highly recommended!

Bill

[Calabasas_Trafalgar]

'71 Hollywood Bowl
'72 Long Beach Arena
'74 San Diego
'77 Denver

* all shows that I attended

[JeffCarney]

IMHO the best live official release is the performance from the Mar y Sol Festival, held in Puerto Rico on January 4, 1972. The sound quality on this is so good, you would think that a then 5 year old Steven Wilson mixed it! And the performance? BLISTERING HOT! There's an early version of Hoedown, and again IMO, the most jaw-dropping performance of Tarkus that I've ever heard! DO NOT miss this one. :up

Eh ...

The version of "Tarkus" on Mar Y Sol is good, but nowhere near the level to which they would take it by the '74 shows.

"Aquatarkus," in particular, just had not been fully developed, and the way the entire piece ends is really a bit of a mess and sounds kind of thrown together.

Sonically, it's an excellent live recording. The box set version is a little better than the standalone release, but the dehissing used is evident on acoustic instruments and sadly unnecessary. The opening of "Piano Improvisations" is a good example of the damage that stuff can do. The hiss level has been reduced too far and the piano sounds a little weird. Or just listen to "Take A Pebble" on the original compilation LP and then how it sounds on the release of the full show. No comparison. There is also a good deal of compression on this release but it still sounds great anyway. It's mainly just the soft stuff that suffers a bit, IMO.

Overall, very good but a pimple on Buffalo '74. For '72, I prefer either of the Long Beach shows.

[polmico]

I listened to the Buffalo show again tonight, and I was thoroughly to harsh on it.

The sound quality is much better than I remember.

Thank you for making me go back and re-evaluate it. That said, I could do without some of Emerson's shenanigans on "Pictures." BLEEEP. BLOOOP. Blargh.

[Jeremy Bender]

'74 San Diego
* all shows that I attendedDo you remember of any of that show? X) I'm assuming it was a full BSS show with the curtains and video screen, I'm wondering if you remember what they showed on the video screen? Thanks!


Thank you for making me go back and re-evaluate it. That said, I could do without some of Emerson's shenanigans on "Pictures." BLEEEP. BLOOOP. Blargh. He was showing off with the Modular Moog for Bob Moog. Moog Music's HQ was in Williamsville, about 20 miles north of Rich Stadium and Dr. Moog was at the show. I love that Moog part after the organ mauling, he plays an incredible melody that I'm sure is by someone else. :) Unfortunately, the tape with a recording of Chopin's "Revolutionary" Etude on it didn't work during the rotating piano bit but the way Keith uses the sequencer after that, all those rising notes before going in to the last vocal bit is just magic.

[no.nine]

Buffalo '74
Seconded a hundred times! I've said it many times before, but capping off an already solid performance is the greatest live rendition of Pictures at an Exhibition I've EVER heard them play. It's just off the charts. Emerson in particular goes places here that he's never gone before or since, to my knowledge.



Surely the Mar Y Sol CD will be recommended. This is also a great show if a tad overrated.
And I agree that it's overrated. Good show, but some would have you believe it's the best live ELP there is. (It's not.)

[N_Singh]

So Buffalo 74 --officially released?

[GuitarGeek]

So Buffalo 74 --officially released?

Yes, it's on the second bootleg boxset. Which is out of print.

[Adm.Kirk]

So I'm one these people that have wrongly overrated the Mar y Sol performance. Buffalo '74 seems to have some favorable views here so perhaps I need to hear this. Where, my friends, should I find such aural candy?

Bill

[JeffCarney]

So I'm one these people that have wrongly overrated the Mar y Sol performance. Buffalo '74 seems to have some favorable views here so perhaps I need to hear this. Where, my friends, should I find such aural candy?

Bill

As Chris mentioned, it was officially released in the Bootleg Box #2. Because of this, it tends not to show up on Torrent sites these days. Certainly Dime would remove it if someone posted it. Probably some other site still has it out there.

Here is the encore:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qoeFY98wU4

[jefftiger]

As Chris mentioned, it was officially released in the Bootleg Box #2. Because of this, it tends not to show up on Torrent sites these days. Certainly Dime would remove it if someone posted it. Probably some other site still has it out there.



Alas, ELP management had all ELP, KE, and GL torrents (but, oddly this did not include Carl Palmer band recordings) removed from DIME several years ago.

[Phlakaton]

That Buffalo show is raging. Wow.

[PeterG]

Ha ha..I read the thread title as Best Live LP...then I saw the E.

[Adm.Kirk]

What was the quality like for the show? Was it board or audience?

Bill

[Brian Griffin]

What was the quality like for the show? Was it board or audience?


I'm assuming you mean Buffalo?

Pretty harsh audie

When I collected casette tapes years back I went through several upgrades of this one, even the lowest gen one I found was still only an average audie for the time - and the Official Live Box version was a couple of steps down quality wise from what was around as I recall

BG

[Rael]

Alas, ELP management had all ELP, KE, and GL torrents (but, oddly this did not include Carl Palmer band recordings) removed from DIME several years ago.

The Traders Den has ELP shows, but the Buffalo show is not seeding.

As far as audience recordings from the 70s go, I think the SQ is actually quite good. It's not as clear as Pink Floyd's Oakland 1977 show, but it's quite listenable. I've never done a direct comparison, but some claim that the quality is better on the audience version floating around on torrent sites than the one released in the box set.

[Phlakaton]

It cracks me up how official releases seem to sound worse than commonly traded ones. Fripp at least grabs the best audience tapes and cleans those up... then sits at the top of the food chain. :)

[happytheman]

It cracks me up how official releases seem to sound worse than commonly traded ones. :)
I've found that to often be the case as well..

[Adm.Kirk]

Well, if it's a crappy audience recording I'll stick with Mar Y Sol.

Bill

[GuitarGeek]

It cracks me up how official releases seem to sound worse than commonly traded ones.


Examples?!

Other than the Grateful Dead, there typically hasn't been too many bootlegs that I have that eventually turned up on official releases. In those cases, the ones I've A/Bed invariably sound better on the official release, usually because they've EQed and made it sound a little less "thin", if you know what I mean.

I'd have to dig out the cassette I have of the Amsterdam show that Fripp released on The Night Watch release, but I don't remember it sounding better than the official release.



Fripp at least grabs the best audience tapes and cleans those up... then sits at the top of the food chain. :)

Yeah, but sometimes those are still plenty difficult to listen to. The Zoom Club debut of the Larks Tongues lineup is a good example. Great performance, but so-so sound quality. That doesn't stop me from listening to it periodically, but I can imagine a lot of people saying "ooooh, but it's an audience tape". Well, since nobody thought to pack the Studer when the band went to Germany (or the Studer packed up, or the tape has "decomposed" or has gone missing), that's all we got to work with.

[Paul1803]

As Chris mentioned, it was officially released in the Bootleg Box #2. Because of this, it tends not to show up on Torrent sites these days. Certainly Dime would remove it if someone posted it. Probably some other site still has it out there.



I think that Dime having to add ELP to their banned list was a bad move for ELP. ELP boots on Dime kept the flame burning but die-hard collectors like myself don't even bother to trade any more. At one time if I had the sniff of something new I would be on it but now there is nothing so I have lost interest in ELP. I have hundreds of shows and rarely give any an airing. I'm also a keen Hendrix trader and the existence of Crosstown Torrents and EH certainly keeps my interest alive.

[JeffCarney]

Listening to Buffalo '74 as I write. It pretty much boggles my mind that anyone would find this too "rough" as far as sound quality. It's got no real sonic power like a pro recording but the clarity of instruments is there in spades.

Definitely not even close to a problem with sound on this one for me. I'd give it a very solid B+ and it's in stereo. The performance is an A+!

[GuitarGeek]

Listening to Buffalo '74 as I write. It pretty much boggles my mind that anyone would find this too "rough" as far as sound quality. It's got no real sonic power like a pro recording but the clarity of instruments is there in spades.

Definitely not even close to a problem with sound on this one for me. I'd give it a very solid B+ and it's in stereo. The performance is an A+!

The only place where I would find it difficult is in the context of doing a radio show. In particular, I like to segue songs together, and if a track doesn't have the same kind of "sonic oomph" if you will, it kinda undermines the effectiveness of the segue, ya know? But beyond that, say if I was just listening to the Buffalo recording just for my own pleasure, I wouldn't have an issue with the quality.

[Brian Griffin]

Listening to Buffalo '74 as I write. It pretty much boggles my mind that anyone would find this too "rough" as far as sound quality. It's got no real sonic power like a pro recording but the clarity of instruments is there in spades.

Definitely not even close to a problem with sound on this one for me. I'd give it a very solid B+ and it's in stereo. The performance is an A+!

Jeff, my tolerance for audies is pretty much zero at this point of my life

I remember when you offered up your live tapes a while ago - I still have hundreds of mine in storage, but in my younger days I had the ability to listen to the music and not the imperfections, but I can't make t through most all audies these days

Love the boards and FM's, but not even so crazy about most modern audie DATs

I love your comment rating it a B+, one of the funniest aspects of tape trading was rating systems, peoples interpretations, and how honest they were : )

YMHYV

(and not to say it ISN'T a B+)!

BG

[JeffCarney]

Jeff, my tolerance for audies is pretty much zero at this point of my life

I remember when you offered up your live tapes a while ago - I still have hundreds of mine in storage, but in my younger days I had the ability to listen to the music and not the imperfections, but I can't make t through most all audies these days

Love the boards and FM's, but not even so crazy about most modern audie DATs

I love your comment rating it a B+, one of the funniest aspects of tape trading was rating systems, peoples interpretations, and how honest they were : )

YMHYV

(and not to say it ISN'T a B+)!

BG

I actually prefer a good "audie" to most soundboards. Soundboards are often very dry, and really only for the purpose of the artist having a reference point for their performance. I don't think most sound like any concert I've ever attended.

Sometimes I wish I didn't give away most of my tapes. But then I've got most everything that was on them in digital. I don't listen to live shows like I used to, but I don't think it's about "sound" so much as my ever expanding collection combined with "having a life." Hard to get them into the rotation, but there are moments I treasure on them that I wouldn't trade for all the perfectly glossed live albums in the world.

Emerson's solo on "Aquatarkus" from Buffalo '74 being one such moment. :)

[JeffCarney]

The only place where I would find it difficult is in the context of doing a radio show. In particular, I like to segue songs together, and if a track doesn't have the same kind of "sonic oomph" if you will, it kinda undermines the effectiveness of the segue, ya know? But beyond that, say if I was just listening to the Buffalo recording just for my own pleasure, I wouldn't have an issue with the quality.

Yup. That's exactly how I feel about it. If I am just listening and can get a feeling of what transpired on a given night, I find it an interesting and often compelling experience.

[Brian Griffin]

I actually prefer a good "audie" to most soundboards. Soundboards are often very dry, and really only for the purpose of the artist having a reference point for their performance. I don't think most sound like any concert I've ever attended.

Sometimes I wish I didn't give away most of my tapes. But then I've got most everything that was on them in digital. I don't listen to live shows like I used to, but I don't think it's about "sound" so much as my ever expanding collection combined with "having a life." Hard to get them into the rotation, but there are moments I treasure on them that I wouldn't trade for all the perfectly glossed live albums in the world.

Emerson's solo on "Aquatarkus" from Buffalo '74 being one such moment. :)

I dunno Jeff - I played all of Mar y Sol and a decent bit of Buffalo, (official live box version), last night and I think the former blows it pretty far out of the water

Yes, Buffalo is a wicked performance, but I think the Sol is different but equally intense and the sound quality totally (Donald) trumps it

Buffalo was not one of the tapes I digitized before storing, I'm curious as to how much better my copy was

I came REALLY close to disposing of my tapes but just couldn't bring myself to do it, we took a storage unit to help clear out our clutter and there they sit

As far as boards, a raw cassette soundboard like the Genesis Lamb tour ones that have surfaced are my sweet spot

I had collected 25 -30 Lamb tour shows in the late 70's and most all were audies and they were all in regular rotation on my deck, and these were such a major (Genesis to) Revelation for me

BG

[Rael]

Listening to Buffalo '74 as I write. It pretty much boggles my mind that anyone would find this too "rough" as far as sound quality. It's got no real sonic power like a pro recording but the clarity of instruments is there in spades.

Definitely not even close to a problem with sound on this one for me. I'd give it a very solid B+ and it's in stereo. The performance is an A+!

What a coincidence! I listened to some of the Buffalo show last night as well and I had forgotten not only how great the performance is, but the quality of the recording as well. I'd actually give it as high as an "A" rating for SQ, although this sort of stuff is pretty subjective I guess. It's pretty astounding for an audience recording from 1974-and in all truth, I don't find it any more difficult to listen to than WBMFTTSTNE. The performance destroys that album as well, IMO.

[Brian Griffin]

What a coincidence! I listened to some of the Buffalo show last night as well and I had forgotten not only how great the performance is, but the quality of the recording as well. I'd actually give it as high as an "A" rating for SQ, although this sort of stuff is pretty subjective I guess. It's pretty astounding for an audience recording from 1974-and in all truth, I don't find it any more difficult to listen to than WBMFTTSTNE. The performance destroys that album as well, IMO.

That rules!

Totally subjective, as I'd said earlier

I need to find my last old trade list and see where I'd put it - I'd say a B by my standards

Genesis - Providence 74, (original one that was around, non-Lampiski version) - that one is the standard for an "A" audience tape from 74 : )

BG

[Rand Kelly]

I was at one of the Long Beach shows, crammed up against the stage. I thought Emerson was going to topple his keyboard onto our heads during the finale. Long Beach is on a TAKRL boot and, I believe, is part of one of the box sets...

I've never heard a show with the orchestra. I'd love to hear Pirates. By the time they reached the West Coast they had jettisoned the orch. Still have the program from that show.

Me too. ELP,77. Journey opened. Robert Fleischman on vocals. I can't believe you haven't heard Works Live. That is the whole show with the orchestra,plus they filmed the thing too and you can get it on dvd. It's actually video tape so it lacks some clarity. I bought the vhs and made my own dvdr.

[Rand Kelly]

For Blah_Blah_Woof_Woof: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=gD9C1az9ZYc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=gD9C1az9ZYc

[grego]

Of "best live ELP" I shamefully prefer best recorded live ELP.. Once I bought "A Time and a Place" box-set, and that was the lesson I have to endure)

[Rand Kelly]

Of "best live ELP" I shamefully prefer best recorded live ELP.. Once I bought "A Time and a Place" box-set, and that was the lesson I have to endure)

huh?

[Rael]

That rules!

Totally subjective, as I'd said earlier

I need to find my last old trade list and see where I'd put it - I'd say a B by my standards

Genesis - Providence 74, (original one that was around, non-Lampiski version) - that one is the standard for an "A" audience tape from 74 : )

BG

I haven't heard the non-Lampinski version. Dan Lampinski. Man, he was a boon for bootleg dorks like me a couple years ago.

[Blah_Blah_Woof_Woof]

Thanks guys. I guess I had stopped collecting ELP when that came out. I appreciate Pirates now more than when it was released. Works was a big letdown.

To be honest, I didn't like Dark Side of the Moon when it came either. It took a major shift to accept a band evolving in a way I did not expect.

[polmico]

For Blah_Blah_Woof_Woof: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=gD9C1az9ZYc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=gD9C1az9ZYc

Plink, plink, plinkity plinkity plink plunk.

Pretty sure I've seen a video of "Tank" with the orchestra, and it pretty clearly showed a bass player in the orchestra.

[Casey]

I'm not that big of an ELP fan to read through all of the posts. I have a few ELP boots on vinyl that haven't been played in 30+ years. I'm willing to send to anyone willing to pay for postage. I also have a MarYSol EP containing "Take A Pebble." If anyone is interested...

[JeffCarney]

I dunno Jeff - I played all of Mar y Sol and a decent bit of Buffalo, (official live box version), last night and I think the former blows it pretty far out of the water

Yes, Buffalo is a wicked performance, but I think the Sol is different but equally intense and the sound quality totally (Donald) trumps it

Buffalo was not one of the tapes I digitized before storing, I'm curious as to how much better my copy was

I came REALLY close to disposing of my tapes but just couldn't bring myself to do it, we took a storage unit to help clear out our clutter and there they sit

As far as boards, a raw cassette soundboard like the Genesis Lamb tour ones that have surfaced are my sweet spot

I had collected 25 -30 Lamb tour shows in the late 70's and most all were audies and they were all in regular rotation on my deck, and these were such a major (Genesis to) Revelation for me

BG

I think you have more company than me on this issue, but I find many boards to sound utterly dead. They sometimes do nothing for me. Clinical, dry, not like a concert at all. I love Pre-FM and radio broadcasts because those are often recorded more like a live album. But I'll take a great Aud. like Lamb in Providence over either of the Florida boards any day. I suppose that's also about performance.

Mar Y Sol is great, but it's not a standard soundboard. It's a pro recording with audience mics. Amazing sound and edgy performance, but not one of Lake's better versions of "Lucky Man." "Tarkus" hasn't quite taken its final shape in terms of being a fully realized composition live, and overall it's just lacking too many great songs that a longer performance like Buffalo has and of course BSS material was with the world by then, too. Hard to compare them except that I think ELP in 1974 were a well-oiled machine. In '72 they were really a haphazard, choppy, heavy, blistering combo and that has great appeal, but I really appreciate just how fine tuned they were by '74. I think the control Keith had over his rig by '74 is just about peerless and he easily had the most sophisticated rig of any rock keyboard player in the world.

[JeffCarney]

What a coincidence! I listened to some of the Buffalo show last night as well and I had forgotten not only how great the performance is, but the quality of the recording as well. I'd actually give it as high as an "A" rating for SQ, although this sort of stuff is pretty subjective I guess. It's pretty astounding for an audience recording from 1974-and in all truth, I don't find it any more difficult to listen to than WBMFTTSTNE. The performance destroys that album as well, IMO.

Yup. I have this thread to thank for reminding me to give Buffalo a spin. Coincidentally I had been listening to Mar Y Sol recently, but I think Buffalo's reputation is even more well deserved!

[GuitarGeek]

Plink, plink, plinkity plinkity plink plunk.

Pretty sure I've seen a video of "Tank" with the orchestra, and it pretty clearly showed a bass player in the orchestra.

I believe there's also a guitarist visible in some shots of the orchestra as well.

[grego]

huh?

That's right. huh-huh-huh, unfortunately:)

[Rand Kelly]

That's right. huh-huh-huh, unfortunately:)

I was serious. I don't understand what you said at all.

[grego]

I was serious. I don't understand what you said at all.

But that's good, I was serious as well. And I don't get your 'huh' at all. And what puzzled you in my opinion I don't understand either.

[AndreProgrunner]

I always thought that exerpts of the Tulsa 74 show that were on the double disc king biscuit flower hour show to be one of their best...

[Casey]

Not such a big ELP fan here so there's a lot about this band I don't know. Please bear with me...

I was always surprised that PAAE was a live performance of a piece that had not been recorded by them in the sudio. Up until that time most live albums that I was familiar with, recapitulated a bands previously studio recorded songs.

Any answers as to why this tactic was used?

[Rand Kelly]

Of "best live ELP" I shamefully prefer best recorded live ELP.. Once I bought "A Time and a Place" box-set, and that was the lesson I have to endure)

What LESSON are you talking about? The only reason I wrote huh? was because I don't understand what you are trying to convey ^.

[pbs1902]

Hi,

Here is list of recording which I like a lot and would recommend.

Official Releases:
There are others which have parts I like, but these are good as complete collections
Mar y Sol ‘72
A Time and A Place ( I really like this collection a lot)
Nassau Coliseum 78

Commercially available (not sure if these are official releases)
Masters from the Vault – A DVD of a 1970 Belgium concert. Very Good, documents a young, vibrant group. Great performance, fair video quality (http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=7218)
Hollywood Bowl 71: Available at: http://www.whoohoolive.com/artist-archives/emerson-lake-palmer/at-the-hollywood-bowl-1971/
NYC 77 w/ Orchestra : Available at: http://www.whoohoolive.com/artist-archives/emerson-lake-palmer/emerson-lake-palmer-madison-square-garden-1977-the-second-night/

ROIO’s
I have quite a few of these and the while the performance is always good, the quality goes from fair to great. With ROIO’s, a lot has to do with what you are looking for and what you are willing to put up with. These are the ones I like a lot. This is not to say they are the best:
Munich 73 – Get Me a Ladder Tour (pre-BSS) Has a alternative/early version of KarnEvil#9
Providence 74 – Early Lampinski recording. Recorded on a cheap recorder, but very good performance
New Jersey 74 – Similar to Buffalo 74 – Outstanding version of Aquatarkus.
Chicago 97 – I was at this show….

If there is a down sides to ELP live, it is their setlist. I read an article in which Chris Squire was saying that Greg Lake was lamenting “We only play 12 songs… And this is sadly quite true.

[Jeremy Bender]

Sure, once a tour started, the setlist didn't change. Sure, you were pretty certainly going to hear Hoedown, Tarkus, Take a Pebble, Lucky Man, (after 1977) Fanfare/Rondo, but to be honest, I don't see how they could have done much more of their material in the 1970-74 period.

The Barbarian was usurped by Hoedown, Tank needed polyphonic synths and was rendered moot by Carl's drum solo spot being in Rondo anyway, The Three Fates was never a viable live choice.

Side 2 of Tarkus, my namesake song Jeremy Bender was played on the 1973 European tour in a medley with The Sheriff, Bitches Crystal was done in the 90's when Keith had the polyphonic synths to do it justice, Hymn/The Only Way wasn't viable without a church organ available, A Time & Place was played in 1972 and was there any ELP fan that was clamoring for Are You Ready Eddy?, I don't think so.

From Trilogy, all of side 1 was played at one time or another, Living Sin wasn't really doable with only one singer and Abbadon's Bolero sounded like crap when they used the tapes and Greg played Mellotron on the 1973 European tour. Trilogy (the song) would have been a perfect choice for the BSS tour since Keith had a polyphonic synth, definitely in the 90's too, but of course it was never played live.

All of BSS was done live and the one thing they should done on the orchestra tour, all three Impressions of Karn Evil 9, got reduced to 1st Impression, Part 2.

I'm sure there's plenty of ELP fans that cry themselves to sleep at night that the Love Beach material never got played live. :) Kidding aside, For You and Canario would have worked live.

I think it's more a case of "ELP didn't have much material to begin with" rather than "Why didn't they play this and that and the other songs live?".

[iguana]

i have always liked their live set from the wiltern theater in 1993. not sure whether they were already back to hating each other by that time ;-)> but they certainly played as if their lives depended on it – with grace, panache and relentless urgency. the cracks were already audible and that makes the listening even more worthwhile.

[JeffCarney]

Trilogy (the song) would have been a perfect choice for the BSS tour since Keith had a polyphonic synth, definitely in the 90's too, but of course it was never played live.

I think it came up in this very thread but "Trilogy" was played live many times. From about March '72 to June '72 it appears to have been in fairly regular rotation.

[arabicadabra]

Of "best live ELP" I shamefully prefer best recorded live ELP.. Once I bought "A Time and a Place" box-set, and that was the lesson I have to endure)

Wow - really? I LOVE that box. I'd pay the full price just to get that performance of The Endless Enigma.

[Tim35]

Has anyone watched these yet? Would you recommend it.



$26.97 from Amazon.

2961\

This Special Edition 3DVD set brings together concerts by Emerson, Lake & Palmer from their very beginning in 1970 up to one of their latter performances in 1997. Birth Of A Band was filmed at the legendary Isle Of Wight Festival in the summer of 1970 and was ELP s first proper gig. Pictures At An Exhibition was filmed at the Lyceum in London in December 1970 and later released in cinemas in 1973. Live At Montreux was filmed at the famous Swiss festival in 1997 and sees the band playing tracks from across their hugely successful career.


Disc One Pictures At An Exhibition
Tracklisting:

1) Pictures At An Exhibition: Promenade / The Gnome / Promenade / The Sage / The Old Castle / Blues Variation / Promenade / The Hut Of Baba Yaga / The Curse Of Baba Yaga / The Great Gate Of Kiev 2) Take A Pebble 3) Knife Edge 4) Rondo


Disc Two Birth Of A Band: Live At The Isle Of Wight Festival 1970

1) Pictures At An Exhibition 2) Take A Pebble 3) Rondo 4) Nutrocker


Disc Three Live At Montreux 1997
Tracklisting:

1) Karn Evil 9 First Impression, Part 2 2) Tiger In The Spotlight 3) Hoedown 4) Touch And Go 5) From The Beginning 6) Knife Edge 7) Bitches Crystal 8) Dance Creole 9) Honky Tonk Train Blues 10) Take A Pebble 11) Lucky Man 12) Tarkus 13) Pictures At An Exhibition 14) Medley: Fanfare For The Common Man / Rondo / Carmina Burana / Toccata In Dm

[GuitarGeek]

I saw one version of the Pictures Of An Exhibition film a year or two back, finally. It was the one with the psychedelic effects that a lot of kvetch about. I thought it was pretty good, but not better than the Pictures album.

What I'd really like to see is more of the footage from the shows that appeared on the Beyond The Beginning DVD. You get like one or two songs from each show. I'd love to know if there's not more out there from those shows. Particularly love to know if there isn't a full Tarkus on video somewhere.

[cavgator]

Not such a big ELP fan here so there's a lot about this band I don't know. Please bear with me...

I was always surprised that PAAE was a live performance of a piece that had not been recorded by them in the sudio. Up until that time most live albums that I was familiar with, recapitulated a bands previously studio recorded songs.

Any answers as to why this tactic was used?

From what I understand, they wanted to get settled in with each other by learning an entire work rather than "Pressed Rat and Warthog," as Janis Schacht of Circus asked. I think it was Palmer who answered the question. I do not know why they didn't do an album with the trio playing the piece in the studio.

[GuitarGeek]

From what I understand, they wanted to get settled in with each other by learning an entire work rather than "Pressed Rat and Warthog," as Janis Schacht of Circus asked. I think it was Palmer who answered the question. I do not know why they didn't do an album with the trio playing the piece in the studio.

Pressed Rat And Warthog?! The Cream track?! I actually rather like that one.

[tom unbound]

Beyond The Beginning has a cute video on their bonus footage menu. Some guy confiscating tape recorders before a show in 1973 ! Too bad we don't have those concert recordings today, huh ?? Thanks buddy !!

[FSTDRMR]

Really to bad the the KB show did not get released as an entire show the recording is killer and that there are no pro recordings of the 73 BSs tour or the Get me a ladder tour in 74 I sure some of that is around somewhere in the ELP camp and there are only audience bootlegs