Seemingly Random Threads

[JKL2000]

I just wanted to make a comment about some of the threads in the Way Off Topic section that get locked because they're perceived by the mods as being too esoteric, and some of the threads that are allowed. I thought it would be ok to post it here, as this is the place to discuss site issues - just want to put in my 2 cents.

I think threads like the Your Eccentric Ideas thread that someone started, which was locked after about three posts was potentially FAR more interesting than, for example, the many sports threads that are allowed to thrive. Considering that this is a forum that 1) is trying to maintain a "community" of sorts, and 2) focuses on a genre of music that thematically dwells much more on issues of society and humanity than it does on sports, I'm really wondering what the intention of the Way Off Topic section is. I can understand wanting to minimize very specific threads about home repair, etc. - been there, done that. I get it. But threads that are more general, and allow everyone to participate, even if they're unrelated to music, seem to make sense to me. (I also think threads about audio and video technology have a place, even if someone is asking a fairly specific question, because most of the discussion in the main and OT sections is about audio and video recordings. and also they always seem to branch off into a discussion about various facets of the technology, various choices, etc.) I have almost zero interest in sports - IMO, sports is the ultimate esoteric subject. Moving an object around according to a specific and almost random set of rules. Actually, a general thread about sports could be interesting, but a thread like "NFL Season 2013" is pretty specific, and totally unrelated to music.

As far as the community aspect, I'm more interested in the Illness and Injury thread, where I can learn a lot about the other individuals who make up this community, than I am about what people thought of the football game the night before. Aren't there WAY more other forums where people can discuss sports than there are where people can share ideas and thoughts where it's actually important to know something about the people with whom you're discsussing them?

Ultimately, if left alone each thread will live or die depending on the interest of the members, and since there's enough interest to sustain the sports threads, fine. But can the mods at least wait and see what kind of potential a new thread has before killing it, unless it's obviously either too controversial or of no interest to anyone? It's pretty frustrating to see a new, interesting header with the little lock symbol next to it.

BTW, I do think the original poster should take some responsibility for sort of explaining the intention of the thread, in order to get it off to a viable start. And probably the eccentric ideas thread didn't quite do that, and the Thinking About Star Wars thread definitely didn't. I think the subject lines kind of do this, but if the first post is really specific, it can kind of kill the thread. I wonder if the mods could help to get the threads off to a good start rather than just locking them, though. It might be a little more proactive, and get people less bent out of shape. And if people ask why a thread was locked, saying "We're not required to explain" is a bit..."Don't annoy us further, we have our work to do. Just think about the average - what use have they for you?"

[Scott Bails]

I have almost zero interest in sports - IMO, sports is the ultimate esoteric subject. Moving an object around according to a specific and almost random set of rules. Actually, a general thread about sports could be interesting, but a thread like "NFL Season 2013" is pretty specific, and totally unrelated to music.
.

Considering that the sports threads are among the most highly-trafficked threads on the forum, I think you're choosing the wrong enemy here.

Not saying that you have to like sports - quite the opposite, really. But I agree with your last paragraph, FWIW.

[100423]

I just wanted to make a comment about some of the threads in the Way Off Topic section that get locked because they're perceived by the mods as being too esoteric, and some of the threads that are allowed. I thought it would be ok to post it here, as this is the place to discuss site issues - just want to put in my 2 cents...


Ultimately, if left alone each thread will live or die depending on the interest of the members, and since there's enough interest to sustain the sports threads, fine. But can the mods at least wait and see what kind of potential a new thread has before killing it, unless it's obviously either too controversial or of no interest to anyone? It's pretty frustrating to see a new, interesting header with the little lock symbol next to it.

I agree entirely with the paragraph that I highlighted. I figured I'd toss that in before this one gets locked too.

[Yves]

Sometimes it's the thread originator that determines the life of the thread. For example, a known spammer or flamer will have his threads killed immediately while a regular "on topic" poster will be given a little more leeway. Also, you have to realise that the mods aren't parked here 24-7 so sometimes there is a perception of a thread being allowed to go longer simply because no mod sees it until days after it was born.

[JKL2000]

Considering that the sports threads are among the most highly-trafficked threads on the forum, I think you're choosing the wrong enemy here.

Not saying that you have to like sports - quite the opposite, really. But I agree with your last paragraph, FWIW.

I'm not choosing an enemy - it's just an example. You could also replace it with threads like Things to do in Oregon. I'm in favor of any threads that people are interested in, though, and I think the mods sometimes go by their own personal interests rather than thinking about what the interests of the community might be. Since they go to a lot of trouble to maintain PE, they're entitled to start whatever threads they want (I know a lot of the sports threads are started by them - I'm not trying to pick on the sports threads).

I know it's most unusual to come before them so, but I've found some useful, esoteric threads - I thought that they should know.

[Yves]

Yes, they know...it's nothing new. It's just a waste of time.
They have no need of your esoteric ways, their site is doing fine...

[JKL2000]

Another boy who'd help destroy the dominance of sports.
Forget about your silly whim, put on your boxing shorts.

[Don Arnold]

Added to my "subscriptions". :)

[Gruno]

Added to my "subscriptions". :)

Ditto.

I hope this continues as a discussion.

[Don Arnold]

I'm not choosing an enemy - it's just an example. You could also replace it with threads like Things to do in Oregon

That must be the thread I started last week. I'm heading down there in two weeks and I was looking for some anectodal advice from those familiar with the specific areas in Oregon I was going to be in (Portland and near Bend). In looking at my thread title now though, perhaps it can be interpreted as giving advice, instead of asking for it? Should I start a new thread and make it clear that I'm asking?

Sorry to digress from the intent of your thread JKL2000!

[Brian Griffin]

Anyone re-tiled a bathroom lately?

BG

[trurl]

What part of your body bends the farthest in a direction it shouldn't go?

[Poisoned Youth]

Jed, I realize this site is a very vital part of your existence, but we've already allowed quite a broader leeway on PEv3 than PEv2 regarding content. Instead of getting worked up over why a thread is locked or deleted, why don't you actually start some meaningful content instead of random thoughts and 'witty' one-liners.

And it's been asked before, if you see a thread locked or deleted, please don't start a thread asking where it went. If you really must know, send a PM.

[Poisoned Youth]

BTW, I'll add this about moderating...

- The moment someone comes here and spams the site, we have people reporting posts to us asking us to remove it.

- The moment someone becomes a real consistent prick, people ask us to ban them.

- People bark why prog stuff is on the OT forum and vice versa

So people want moderators when it serves them.

All that's generally asked by posters is to:

1. Add productive content to the site, to contribute to the "signal", not the "noise".

2. Play nice.

3. Remember that this isn't your personal advertising space.

It has always been that way. There are other venues for those to communicate to the world that you just discovered a new unit of measure or to get advice on the best set of toenail clippers.


I invite you all to please read and understand the PE Terms of Service.

http://www.progressiveears.org/pe_documents/ProgressiveEarsv3_ToS.htm

[Sean]

That's good food for thought.

[Gruno]

I am curious about something, PoisonedYouth; in discussing some threads being locked you stated that they were better suited for places like Facebook rather than PE. I can understand that. I guess I don't fully understand those boundaries. Threads like progeezers vacation pics remaining open has me wondering about those boundaries. I'm not asking for geezers thread to be killed -- not at all. I'm just wondering why that type of thread remains when others get zapped?

[Scott Bails]

I appreciate all that our moderators and admins do here - I'm one of the bigger cheerleaders for this "new" site.

But I guess I just don't see the harm in allowing some of the more "esoteric" threads. As Jed points out, if they're not popular, they'll just sink on the forum.



All that said, I understand that it's not my site, and that this place was designed with a purpose, and I respect that.

[Gruno]

Agreed all around Scott.

[Don Arnold]

Agreed from this PE'er as well. Now, onto toenail clippers....

[Yves]

If you need a good spatula.. or a case of them, this is the place!

http://www.goldenspatula.net/1989.jpg

[JKL2000]

Jed, I realize this site is a very vital part of your existence, but we've already allowed quite a broader leeway on PEv3 than PEv2 regarding content. Instead of getting worked up over why a thread is locked or deleted, why don't you actually start some meaningful content instead of random thoughts and 'witty' one-liners.

And it's been asked before, if you see a thread locked or deleted, please don't start a thread asking where it went. If you really must know, send a PM.

First of all, you were right about the Barleycorn post - not sure what I was thinking, but that didn't help my case at all.

I wasn't asking why a particular thread was locked - I try not to get involved in that. I was just asking in the Site Issues thread, the appropriate place I think, if you could possibly base those kinds of decisions on the potential of the subject of the thread, and not immediately lock it down because you don't like the first post. I just think it sometimes nips potentially good topics in the bud.

The insulting comments though, I just don't understand. They really seem unwarranted. Do the moderators not want PE to be important to its members?

Also, while I may be guilty of the occasional random thread (I'm much better about that than I was...overall) and the more common one-liner, if you really look at all my posting you'll see I start a pretty fair number of more important threads, and more significant posts, or at least posts where I'm asking serious questions because I want to know some details about a particular release, tour, etc. I'm ok with trying not to violate the rules of PE, but it's kind of uncomfortable to feel like every post is being judged as to whether it's "important" enough, or not trying to be humorous or light in tone. I don't want to be posting for the Clampdown.

BTW, Don Arnold, I had no problem with your thread about Oregon, and neither, I guess, did the moderators.

[Poisoned Youth]

in discussing some threads being locked you stated that they were better suited for places like Facebook rather than PE. I can understand that. I guess I don't fully understand those boundaries.

There is no black and white answer that would likely satisfy your query. But I did already answer something similar to you a few weeks back if you recall.

[Yves]

I think Cozy's drunk with power. We need a coup d'état! Who's with me?!

[Poisoned Youth]

I appreciate all that our moderators and admins do here - I'm one of the bigger cheerleaders for this "new" site.

But I guess I just don't see the harm in allowing some of the more "esoteric" threads. As Jed points out, if they're not popular, they'll just sink on the forum.


All that said, I understand that it's not my site, and that this place was designed with a purpose, and I respect that.


The problem is, others do not.

We've had several people banned from the site (at readership request in many cases), return even if they're not wanted. 80% of the time they have to be re-banned.

We've said politely and ...perhaps less so at times... over the years that the design of this place is for primarily musical discussion and have implemented a policy for years now where things went 'PM', were closed, and/or deleted because they "add no value to the site". Even if you don't personally care for it, any person who has been around here for years now should know the purpose behind the site.

Trust me when I tell you that if we allow all content on this site without filter, some will continue to push the limits and the "noise ratio" will continue to increase to the point where that begins to dominate the site.

[Poisoned Youth]

I think Cozy's drunk with power. We need a coup d'état! Who's with me?!

I think it's time to nuke Quebec!

[Yves]

I think it's time to nuke Quebec!

http://blogs.crikey.com.au/this-blog-harms/wp-content/blogs.dir/33/files/2011/11/kim-jong-il-team-america15.jpg

(The REAL Cozy)

[JKL2000]

We are the Priests of the Temple of PE...
Our great computers fill Duncan's basement!

[Poisoned Youth]

The insulting comments though, I just don't understand. They really seem unwarranted. Do the moderators not want PE to be important to its members?

Jed, this has been discussed several times, so there really isn't any point in re-hashing anything that's been said before. If you really think you've been insulted here, I apologize.

Let me put this to you another way, this site serves several thousand readers, not just the 50 people who post the most. Most people who come here want to read about or talk about the music they enjoy first and foremost in an environment that is generally civil. For the most part, PE has achieved that. The people who post the most frequently here tend to have an attachment to the site and tend to question things more. They also tend to think of themselves as content moderators (not saying that's a bad thing) and are typically the ones who report posts to us and ask us to moderate. But in the end, it's the purpose behind the site and the commitment to the 1,000s of readers and lurkers that we are focused on.

We've asked that people be conscience of what they post. We don't allow politics and religious discussion for the most part. There are still some that would scream "censorship" and have. But most are okay with it. But along with that, we encourage primarily music discussion here, but are fairly liberal about how far off topic we let that go. Sports and most other entertainment is an example of content we generally allow, especially when organized properly. But on PEv2, we would PM most of those discussions. Now that these are allowed on the WOT forum, it opens up the door to questions such as yours "if you allow sports, why not this...?" We do try to set some boundaries and - for the most part - most people just respect that. I am not sure what is gained by constantly questioning the way the site is run with threads like this - especially when I can say with some confidence that you won't be satisfied with the answer. :)

Again, I invite everyone to re-read the ToS:

http://www.progressiveears.org/pe_documents/ProgressiveEarsv3_ToS.htm