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View Full Version : FEATURED CD: Kerry Livgren - Seeds of Change



Poisoned Youth
11-16-2012, 08:24 AM
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_nbhoQ3b1PHY/Se2YqpFZj4I/AAAAAAAAAys/pDX9kA3m6cU/s400/KerryLivgren-SeedsOfChange.jpg


Review from ProgArchives (Garion81)

1980 was a transitional year for Kansas and Kerry Livgren. While band mate and lead vocalist/organist Steve Walsh was off doing his own solo project Kerry Livgren was recording this one. While Steve Walsh was laying the groundwork for his departure from Kansas to his rock and roll band Streets with Schemer Dreamer Kerry was trying to explain his conversion to Christianity and doing something on his own. Unfortunately instead of Kansas taking the year off to refresh the creative juices they went full steam ahead with Audio Visions so now we have three albums in 1980 and not enough material for each. If it wasn't for the fact that No One Together was left off Monolith AV would have been a complete dud. It isn't hard to imagine given the best songs on this CD that AV would have been much stronger without Seeds of Change. Try to imagine AV with Mask of the Great Deceiver, Live for the King and Ground Zero instead of Relentless, Got to Rock On and Loner.

So then what about this album? Uneven, experimental and sometimes brilliant in both composition and performance this is album really does represent a "solo' album. The idea of solo works is usually to try music and work with musicians you couldn't do in your band and not worry so much about sales as to make a statement about yourself. As Steve Walsh boldly proclaimed " I am a rock and roll singer" with Schemer Dreamer Kerry pronounces himself as a Christian and as a songwriter who has many layers to him. Kerry explores the blues, pop and symphonic music on this collection.

The best of this from a symphonic view are Mask of the Great Deceiver, Live for the King and Ground Zero. The best of the Pop/Rock songs are Just One Way and How can You Live. So 5 out 7 are really good songs. The other two Whiskey Seed and Down to the core are just filler. Guest appearances here by fellow Kansas members Phil Erhart, Steve Walsh and Robby Steinhardt and other artists such as David Pack, Barrymore Barlow and Ronnie James Dio make this CD a strong multidimensional recording and really Kerry's later solo albums never touched the high of these performances.

All in all Seeds of Change is a good solid album and the best of the three Kansas related albums that came out in 1980 and one of the few in Kerry's solo collections that I would rate higher than 3 stars. This one is 4.



http://youtu.be/FGCmgbBoqp0


http://youtu.be/MRg4ARoQwrg

progman1975
11-16-2012, 08:43 AM
Three Words...Ronnie James Dio.....

arabicadabra
11-16-2012, 06:33 PM
Ronnie, Barriemore, and Steve Walsh belting out "look to the Word that sets you free"? Great stuff.

happytheman
11-16-2012, 08:28 PM
Hidden gem as far as I'm concerned. Really enjoyed it when it was first released. Gotta admit haven't spun the vinyl in some time.... perhaps this weekend.

enpdllp
11-17-2012, 10:17 PM
Hidden gem as far as I'm concerned. Really enjoyed it when it was first released.

+1

Back in the day, the local radio station used to play Mask Of The Great Deceiver to end their programming at midnight.

Hunnibee
11-18-2012, 01:29 AM
... and don't forget David Pack on Ground Zero! Great song!

I liked the whole album, for the most part.

Vic2012
11-18-2012, 10:03 AM
I still have never owned or heard this album. Well, I'm listening to one of those youtubes Cozy posted. What is the title of the first song up there? It just says "Best Of Kerry Livgren" and nothing else. Sounds like a good Kansas song. I agree that AudioVision would've been a stronger album if they would've included some of this solo stuff.

TheH
11-18-2012, 10:12 AM
I still have never owned or heard this album. Well, I'm listening to one of those youtubes Cozy posted. What is the title of the first song up there? It just says "Best Of Kerry Livgren" and nothing else. Sounds like a good Kansas song. I agree that AudioVision would've been a stronger album if they would've included some of this solo stuff.

That's "Ground Zero". Kerry doesn't somehow have the rights for his own songs of the debut, so the are partly rerecorded on the "Best of" with the original (or alternate from these sessions) vocals.

TheH
11-18-2012, 10:31 AM
Mask of the Great Deceiver is a hell of a song. I really love Dio's vocals on this one.
But I also like what Kansas did with it:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SywLjSSm7dY&feature=related

Vic2012
11-18-2012, 11:13 AM
Mask of the Great Deceiver is a hell of a song. I really love Dio's vocals on this one.
But I also like what Kansas did with it:


That was awesome. A shame it couldn't have been on AV. I got rid of AudioVision years ago. I ripped 4 songs from it and traded it, or sold it to a used CD store.

Jason
11-18-2012, 02:29 PM
As technology has improved, Kerry has gone back and re-recorded most of his solo albums. This has sometimes frustrated me as I've ended up buying the same release several times. But nearly every track is better when he does this, and so I've never regretted buying the new versions. When he does this, he usually preserves the best elements of the original, such as Ronnie's lead vocals or Barriemore Barlow's drums. Imagine if some other bands did this... (e.g., I'd love to have a re-recorded version of Discipine's Unfolded Like Staircase with the original vocals but with a real Hammond, better production, etc...) Kerry has never been able get the rights to do this 'officially' with Seeds of Change. However, the first time Seeds was available on CD was when Sony released it as part of "Decade." So Kerry went ahead and gave Seeds the full treatment a couple years ago, but to avoid complications with Sony, he released it as a CD-R on his website, calling it "Decade Vol. I." (He also re-recorded and released Time Line as Decade Vol. II.) So yes, there are three versions of Ground Zero, but this is the best one. This is the definitive version of Seeds of Change that you should buy, but it's only available as a CD-R on his website:
http://www.numavox.com/cd.htm

Especially with the 2009 production, this album is far better than many of the Kansas albums, especially the ones that Kerry wasn't on. I think it's clearly better and more consistent than Monolith and Audiovisions, and I actually have listened to it more than some of the more classic Kansas albums.
-Jason

bRETT
11-18-2012, 02:43 PM
. I agree that AudioVision would've been a stronger album if they would've included some of this solo stuff.

Steve Walsh has said that he wasn't comfortable with the religious direction of Kerry's writing, and came up with things like 'Got to Rock On" as a reaction.

Vic2012
11-18-2012, 06:27 PM
Steve Walsh has said that he wasn't comfortable with the religious direction of Kerry's writing, and came up with things like 'Got to Rock On" as a reaction.

Yeah I know. AudioVisions had so many shitty songs I just got rid of it. The only songs from that album I like are:

Hold On
No One Together
Curtain Of Iron
Don't Open Your Eyes

enpdllp
11-18-2012, 06:56 PM
I still have never owned or heard this album.

If you are a fan of Kansas, you should get an original copy of Seeds Of Change. If you saw Kansas during their Audio Visions tour, you probably saw them performing Mask Of The Great Deceiver from Livgren's Seeds Of Change and You Think You Got It Made from Steve Walsh's Schemer Dreamer.


As technology has improved, Kerry has gone back and re-recorded most of his solo albums. This has sometimes frustrated me as I've ended up buying the same release several times. But nearly every track is better when he does this, and so I've never regretted buying the new versions. When he does this, he usually preserves the best elements of the original, such as Ronnie's lead vocals or Barriemore Barlow's drums. Imagine if some other bands did this... (e.g., I'd love to have a re-recorded version of Discipine's Unfolded Like Staircase with the original vocals but with a real Hammond, better production, etc...) Kerry has never been able get the rights to do this 'officially' with Seeds of Change. However, the first time Seeds was available on CD was when Sony released it as part of "Decade." So Kerry went ahead and gave Seeds the full treatment a couple years ago, but to avoid complications with Sony, he released it as a CD-R on his website, calling it "Decade Vol. I." (He also re-recorded and released Time Line as Decade Vol. II.) So yes, there are three versions of Ground Zero, but this is the best one. This is the definitive version of Seeds of Change that you should buy, but it's only available as a CD-R on his website:
http://www.numavox.com/cd.htm

Especially with the 2009 production, this album is far better than many of the Kansas albums, especially the ones that Kerry wasn't on. I think it's clearly better and more consistent than Monolith and Audiovisions, and I actually have listened to it more than some of the more classic Kansas albums.
-Jason

Jason:

Thanks for the explanation on Livgren's reissues. I am a big fan of Livgren's Seeds Of Change and his New Ageish album One Of Several Possible Musiks. His AD recordings have some decent stuff here and there, but the vocals were usually the weak link on those albums. Most of the keyboards sounds on his AD albums have not aged that well.

I am not sure who sings on the Ground Zero clip above, but he does not sound like the singer on the original recording (Ambrosia's Dave Pack). The vocals sound a little less engaged than on the original recording, the new choruses do not work for me and some of the keyboard sounds on the new recording do not sound as full as on the original. Based on the what I hear on the clip above, I am not sold the newer version is better than the original.

FWIW, Decade was released by Christian music label Sparrow Records, not Sony. Sparrow released most of Livgren records after he left Kansas and before he created his recording label (Numavox). My guess is that Sparrow licensed Seeds Of Change and Time Line from Sony to be included on the Decade box set.

Jason
11-18-2012, 07:59 PM
I am a big fan of Livgren's Seeds Of Change and his New Ageish album One Of Several Possible Musiks. His AD recordings have some decent stuff here and there, but the vocals were usually the weak link on those albums. Most of the keyboards sounds on his AD albums have not aged that well.

I am not sure who sings on the Ground Zero clip above, but he does not sound like the singer on the original recording (Ambrosia's Dave Pack). The vocals sound a little less engaged than on the original recording, the new choruses do not work for me and some of the keyboard sounds on the new recording do not sound as full as on the original. Based on the what I hear on the clip above, I am not sold the newer version is better than the original.

FWIW, Decade was released by Christian music label Sparrow Records, not Sony. Sparrow released most of Livgren records after he left Kansas and before he created his recording label (Namabox). My guess is that Sparrow licensed Seeds Of Change and Time Line from Sony to be included on the Decade box set.

I like the albums with vocals more, but if you like One Of Several Possible Musiks, you may like his instrumental Odyssey Into the Mind's Eye Soundtrack. I think the production is a lot better, especially with the drums.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2KrZSEXbgE

The only AD album that wasn't re-recorded was Art of the State. A lot of the dated keyboard sounds were removed from some of those albums, but again the vocals were usually from the original performances. The one that was improved the most in my opinion was Prime Mover (Redux) 2008, which became so much better than the original. In that case, the vocals were re-recorded too, but it was still with the original singer Warren Ham (who I like better than the other AD vocalist Michael Gleason).

>>I am not sure who sings on the Ground Zero clip above, but he does not sound like the singer on the original recording (Ambrosia's Dave Pack). <<

The singer above is Jake Livgren, who is a great singer, but I agree that David Pack's original vocal is better. The version above is the 'second version' of the piece, which was recorded in 2001-2002 for the Best of CD. The "third version" that I was recommending was from 2009; it has the original vocal by David Pack. The vocals and most of the other guest performances are the same on the new version of Seeds of Change. That's not to say that you still won't prefer the original. Although, recorded nearly thirty years later, I think the new one is a lot better.

>>FWIW, Decade was released by Christian music label Sparrow Records, not Sony.<<

That's true. Somehow they got permission from Sony to release the first two solo albums. Decade was released in 1992- the year that EMI bought Sparrow. Sony now owns EMI, so perhaps there was some back scratching somewhere.

I think that probably the best Kerry Livgren project to come along in a long time is the Proto-Kaw CD Before Became After. I'm still hoping that their live performances from that album at NEARFest will be released as a DVD. (Some of it was included on The Wait of Glory.")
-Jason

enpdllp
11-19-2012, 10:19 AM
I like the albums with vocals more, but if you like One Of Several Possible Musiks, you may like his instrumental Odyssey Into the Mind's Eye Soundtrack. I think the production is a lot better, especially with the drums.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2KrZSEXbgE

Thanks for the recommendation. Will have to take a listen to the link.



The vocals and most of the other guest performances are the same on the new version of Seeds of Change. That's not to say that you still won't prefer the original. Although, recorded nearly thirty years later, I think the new one is a lot better.


Any idea if there is any place where I can hear samples of the 2009 Seeds Of Change?

pbs1902
11-19-2012, 12:31 PM
This is the definitive version of Seeds of Change that you should buy, but it's only available as a CD-R on his website:
http://www.numavox.com/cd.htm

Thanks for the heads up! I always like this album and never could find a copy on CD... Now I just need to wait for the postman to deliver it.

The Ronnie James Dio vocals are great on the first track (If memory serves) and I thought that Barriemore Barlow's drumming was great too.

Now, I must have some patience :roll

Big Ears
11-21-2012, 05:01 PM
Are any of Kerry Livgren's other solo albums as good as Seeds of Change?

enpdllp
11-21-2012, 05:38 PM
Are any of Kerry Livgren's other solo albums as good as Seeds of Change?

No. Some decent tracks here and there, but none of his solo or AD records reached the heights of Seeds Of Change.

dropforge
11-21-2012, 08:01 PM
I think Time Line is a very good album. You need it if you're a "Livgrenite." I do agree that nothing else matches Seeds Of Change. That's album's kerrazy good.

thx5150
11-21-2012, 08:30 PM
Are any of Kerry Livgren's other solo albums as good as Seeds of Change?

Coming from a Livgren fan, none of his solo albums match the first one. There are moments and songs in each one but most are more pop or AOR then prog. So for pure prog, you have to go to his Protokaw albums. But avoid the latest one, Forth. Quite possiblity the lamest of all his albums. Sadly it is one dull and boring album.

Personally I like his two instrumental albums, soundtrack to Odyssey Into The Mind's Eye and on the opposite side, the light instrumental album, One Of Several Possible Musiks. On the former, all the songs are interesting with a few that rock harder than anything he has done since Kansas. While the former is a very good mellow album.

YESHEAD777
11-21-2012, 08:56 PM
This is a great one, along with the aforementioned "One of several possible musiks and AD's Timeline, and also AD's Reconstructions and Art of the State are all strong. Somewhat dated maybe, but I disagree about the weak vocal comment. Michael Gleason and Warren Ham were both strong vocalists and instumentalists. I actually saw Warren Ham on tour with Amy Grant one yr. and He played keys, sax, woodwinds, and sang. AD was probably the most talented group in all of Contemporary Christian Music-ever!

Jason
11-21-2012, 11:09 PM
[QUOTE=thx5150;9090] So for pure prog, you have to go to his Protokaw albums. But avoid the latest one, Forth. Quite possiblity the lamest of all his albums. Sadly it is one dull and boring album. QUOTE]

I agree. I think Before Became After in particular is one of his best since the classic era. I didn't like Wait for Glory as much as many of his other solo work, but it is still good. But this last one from Proto-Kaw, Forth, is maybe my least favorite album that he's been on. There's a tasty Steve Morse solo at the end of the second track, but it's short and can't save the song for me. There's a new version of "On the Air", but I like the version on Collector's Sedition better, (which is a great solo album). I think perhaps my favorite solo album after Seeds of Change is "Prime Mover (Redux)" 2008, at least that's the one that I listen to and enjoy the most now. Time Line or Art of the State may be better, but I probably listened to them too many times years ago.

Vic2012
11-22-2012, 07:02 AM
I have "Time Line" on cassette. Years ago I found this cheapo, bargain cassette of that album. I think it's pretty good overall. It's been years since I've played it since I don't have a cassette deck or a walkman. I remember liking at least half the songs. It's a mixture of hard/rock and new wave-ish stuff. Back during my "born again" phase (in the 80s) I had the 2nd and 3rd AD albums on vinyl. I really liked them a lot. Same format, hard/rock mixed with some new wave type stuff. I always thought that AD would've been what Kansas should've sounded like in the 80s.

The only Livgren albums I have that are not Kansas albums are Proto-Kaw (Early Recordings), which I think is outstanding, and PK (Before Became After). Haven't bothered with any other PK albums since. I like BBA but I'm not a big fan of the lead vocalist, Lynn Meredith (who names their son Lynn? :lol). And frankly speaking, today's Proto-Kaw is just Kerry's Christian Rock band. It's just Kerry's vehicle for his Christian Rock musings.

One thing I have to say about Kerry that I've always loved (besides the great songs he's written), he's a hell of a guitarist. Love his strong vibrato.

TheH
11-22-2012, 01:12 PM
From the Livgren solos Seeds is clearly the strongest. PK Early Recordings and Before became After are really strong too.

Collector's Sedition (there are two versions of this one too) would be my solo no. 2. Some songs on this one are amazing.
If you are into ProtoKaw then this one is a must.

The other Livgren solos are all ok but not really must haves.

For Kansas fans it's a good thing to see that some of the lost Kansas songs found a Home here.
Like Children of the Shadows on Prime Mover and Racing Away from WHEN THINGS GET ELECTRIC.

Sean
11-22-2012, 02:01 PM
I think his solo work is a mixed bag. Shows just how much the guys in Kansas brought to his compositions. The last Kansas album is a good example of how they elevate his tunes.

Vic2012
11-22-2012, 06:45 PM
Like Children of the Shadows

I have a demo version of that song. It's sung by Steve Walsh. I have no idea where I found it but it must've been 4-5 years ago (I downloaded it). It's sitting on my hard drive.

Garion81
11-22-2012, 07:58 PM
I think his solo work is a mixed bag. Shows just how much the guys in Kansas brought to his compositions. The last Kansas album is a good example of how they elevate his tunes.

Ah you guys used my review from Progarchives for this. Sean there is something to that but mostly if you listen to Kansas, AD and Protokaw over his solo albums there is quite a distinction where he tries to play all of the instruments including drums and that is where it is lacking. His groups were much better.

TheH
11-24-2012, 11:51 AM
I have a demo version of that song. It's sung by Steve Walsh. I have no idea where I found it but it must've been 4-5 years ago (I downloaded it). It's sitting on my hard drive.

That song was part of the Vinyl Confessions demos still made with Steve before he left, but the song didn't find it's way on the album. These demos circulate wideley on the net.
Racing away was part of the Power demos.

ProgPariah77
11-25-2012, 11:02 PM
I've always felt that AD's "Art of the State" is a strong Livgren solo project, second only to "Seeds." "Up from the Wasteland" is the sublime closer to that one, and one of my all-time favorite Kerry tracks. Next I would pick "Time Line" - after that, it's a truly mixed bag across the board IMO. It's like at some point he decided to just record everything that ran through his head and put it out there ...

Hunnibee
12-03-2012, 03:12 AM
I really need to start collecting Kerry's other solo albums and A.D. stuff. I've heard a lot about Collector's Sedition, so that will probably be the first one I get.

I'm a super huge ProtoKaw fan, too. Kerry is just simply a brilliant songwriter, and in spite of his stroke (from which he has made remarkable progress), I hope he can continue writing great music for some band(s) out there.

bill g
12-04-2012, 06:56 PM
Kerry Livgren is a great composer, but often too commercial/straightforward to move me one way or the other. Other times, he's great. I usually love his instrumental passages, such as in Ground Zero, Mask of the Great Deciever and Children of the Shadows.

Ian1019
02-21-2014, 05:38 PM
Bump. Does anyone have the Rock Candy reissue?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9vlQ2YgJ2s
Btw, check this out.

ProgMusician
02-21-2014, 07:58 PM
Three cheers for the "over-the-top" phase shifter solo in the middle of Mask of the Great Deceiver ! Somehow he got the phase to cycle to it's lowest point at the end of the solo (must have been done by hand with a device that allowed for a "manual" phase sweep). That's something i miss about the old days.....artists trying things because "hey man, I don't think we've ever done this idea with this effect before !" . These posts have me very curious now as to whether he kept that in the 2009 version (in my mind it's a must have ! - haha)

Vic2012
02-21-2014, 10:36 PM
It's sitting on my hard drive.

It WAS sitting on my hard drive. My 'pewter took a shit and now "Children Of The Shadows" is gone. :(