Gentle Giant which editions should I get ?

[Udi Koomran]

Confession : Never been a big GG fan but the excellent 3 Friends show last week here in TLV somehow gave me motivation to explore the GG once again (god knows I tried many times but was mostly put off by the vocals and the overly Renaissance/ Baroque influences )
Anyway I am thinking of buying some of the essential albums and knowing the GG catalog was re issued on a multiple occasions I am seeking for some advice as to which is are the best.
Which cds were mastered in 2011 ? How good are these ?
I prefer to buy new cds and avoid ebay 2nd hand etc. if possible .
Thanks !

[Progbear]

The one I know to avoid is the One Way edition of Free Hand, somehow they managed to botch it twice!

If packaging matters to you, the Line, Repertoire and Alucard issues of Three Friends have the “correct” cover art (i.e.: the original Vertigo LP cover, not the repurposed first album art).

-------------
MIKE (a.k.a. "Progbear")

"'Thin Thighs For Your Man.' But I don't *like* men with thin thighs" --Daria

N.P.:“Chacona”-Gorizont/Letnii gorod (Summer in Town)

[strawberrybrick]

The Alucard reissues are the band's label, and currently in print. All others (most others?) are OOP, including the 35th Anniversary, which were also band-issued, on Derrick Shulman's DRT label. Neither the Alucard nor DRT are highly regarded sound-wise unfortunately.

Personally, the OOP issues on Road Goes On Forever and Line are my favs, but then again, the original vinyl sounds very good and is plentiful here in the US.

[Zeuhlmate]

I have 3 on Repertoire Records, Aquiring the taste, Three friends & Octopus, and they sound much better than other GG Cd's I have.
I think they are OOP, but there maybe stocks in stores around.

[Romerovm]

If you are a purist you should track down the Line German reissues. The later ones have been tweaked and they "remastered".

[no.nine]

Regarding the Line CDs, avoid the debut. It has a silence inserted between two tracks where there should be none ("Nothing at All" & "Why Not"). And the silence comes after the first note of "Why Not"!! After the pause, it continues on with the second note. Completely unacceptable flaw.

[Romerovm]

Regarding the Line CDs, avoid the debut. It has a silence inserted between two tracks where there should be none ("Nothing at All" & "Why Not"). And the silence comes after the first note of "Why Not"!! After the pause, it continues on with the second note. Completely unacceptable flaw.

Yep, I forgot about this particular CD on Line. I would go for the Japanese mini-LP released under the British series. Sounds great!

For the rest I still recommend the Line reissues.

[no.nine]

Yep, I forgot about this particular CD on Line. I would go for the Japanese mini-LP released under the British series. Sounds great!

For the rest I still recommend the Line reissues.Yep, the other three Lines sound nice, but they're not easily found.

For the debut, I like the regular old Vertigo CD, which is still easy to find, as is the Vertigo Acquiring the Taste. Some have complained that Vertigo's AtT CD sounds murky, but so did the LP. That's part of the album's character. The Repertoire CD mastered by Eroc sounds great also. It's cleaner, so it has more detail. The end result is that the album feels slightly different. Not better or worse, just different. Honestly, for AtT, I'd recommend either one.

But then again, Udi said he's not interested in tracking down old CDs, in which case I'd have to say that I'm not familiar with many of the more recent reissues. I HAVE heard the '09 EMI/Alucards of Playing the Fool, Interview & The Missing Piece, and while I have mixed feelings about their sound, I'd think that most would find them acceptable.

[Progatron]

My copies of Gentle Giant, Acquiring The Taste and Octopus are all the original Vertigo releases. In the case of Octopus, I shelled out for the UK import many years ago because I wanted the Roger Dean cover - at that time the only one you could buy in North America was the one with that hideous pickled octopus cover. All three have been with me a long time and sound perfectly good to my ears! Most of the rest are the 35th. anniversary editions, except Three Friends which is the digipack reissue from a year or two ago (thank god they restored that artwork, I never understood why the N.American editions had the same damn cover as the debut album!)

[JeffCarney]

Yep, the other three Lines sound nice, but they're not easily found.

For the debut, I like the regular old Vertigo CD, which is still easy to find

The debut was also "fixed" on the early Japanese releases. The first Japan mini from 2001 just copied the earlier issue (PPD-3093 and I think also PHCR-4202).

I'm not as nuts about the Line CDs as some folks. Sure, they beat most of the newer versions, but they are jacked up with some treble. For example, one listen to the SHM-SACD or a decent vinyl copy of something like 'Octopus' will put the Line disc to shame, IMO.

[no.nine]

I never understood why the N.American editions had the same damn cover as the debut album!)

The debut LP wasn't released in the US, so Columbia felt free to use its artwork for Three Friends instead, probably deeming it superior. I read somewhere that the label felt it was an appropriate cover to use because Three Friends was their first American release.

[Progbear]

The debut LP wasn't released in the US, so Columbia felt free to use its artwork for Three Friends instead, probably deeming it superior. I read somewhere that the label felt it was an appropriate cover to use because Three Friends was their first American release.

Second. Acquiring the Taste was their first (albeit on a different label). The debut was not released in the USA until the CD era.

Watch out for issues of Interview. I have the 2-on-1 which has fine sound, but I think is missing one of the interview clips (It does have the “stinger” at the end of Free Hand, though, which is missing from some CD releases)

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MIKE (a.k.a. "Progbear")

"'Thin Thighs For Your Man.' But I don't *like* men with thin thighs" --Daria

N.P.:“New Skins for Old”-Essra Mohawk

[zombywoof]

I have 3 on Repertoire Records, Aquiring the taste, Three friends & Octopus, and they sound much better than other GG Cd's I have.
I think they are OOP, but there maybe stocks in stores around.

Yep, Repetoire is a fine label. I'd buy the first 4 on Repetoire and then go with the more recent remasters for the following albums.

[CybrKhatru]

Took me a while but I was able to find Acquiring, Three Friends, and Octopus on LINE.

My GG CD collection is a mix of Line, RGOF/Terrapin (Free Hand & Playing the Fool), Capitol (P&G), and One Way (Interview).

[flytomars]

Confession : Never been a big GG fan but the excellent 3 Friends show last week here in TLV somehow gave me motivation to explore the GG once again (god knows I tried many times but was mostly put off by the vocals and the overly Renaissance/ Baroque influences )


Same here! mainly due to the vocals.
I dont remember the CD labels I have nor do I know if they are the best versions, but I really like the 4.1 (original seventies quad mix) DVD versions of Freehand and Interview -
if I am not mistaken all the glitches are fixed in these versions, and if memory serves they also come with a stereo 24/96 flat transfer.
if you have a way to play DVD (even without 5.1) - I think this is the way to go. (havent listened to the stereo version but the 4.1 sounds awesome)

[no.nine]

Second. Acquiring the Taste was their first (albeit on a different label). The debut was not released in the USA until the CD era.



I think the US release of Acquiring the Taste came after the US release of Three Friends. I can't remember where I read that originally (and I admittedly don't know if it's accurate), but a reviewer on Amazon states the same thing:

"Interestingly, "Three Friends" was their debut in the U.S. as both "Gentle Giant" and the superb follow up "Acquiring the Taste" were not released in the United States initially."

http://www.amazon.com/Three-Friends-Gentle-Giant/product-reviews/B0012GMX2Y

It's the third entry, Wayne Klein's review from Jan. 28, 2006. It's not conclusive proof, but I don't think that's the first place I read this.

[strawberrybrick]

Am unaware of a US vinyl issue of the first Gentle Giant album...

[no.nine]

Am unaware of a US vinyl issue of the first Gentle Giant album...

The debut was never released on vinyl in the US. Wayne Klein's quote above refers to the fact that it eventually got a US release on CD.

[VinylRulz]

Regarding GG reissues and remasters, you'll get many opinions as to which sound better. I won't bore you with mine.

However, here's the latest rumor floating around the GG universe. This is what Lesley Minnear posted last week as the group was chatting about Steven Wilson's treatments of prog remasterings:

"Well what d'you know? Just yesterday I was speaking to Ray, and he was
telling me all about Steve Wilson. They have done some projects together and
Steve is keen to do new stereo mixes to include 5.1, of Octopus, IAGH and
TP&TG. We would have some challenges regarding licences etc, but if you
think this a good idea we can start the various negotiations."

As you might imagine, there was unanimous approval from the membership. How could they suck?

Dan

[gregory]

The first four albums you better pick on Repertoire, and the rest on Alucard.

[adap2it]

[QUOTE=VinylRulz;4267]Regarding GG reissues and remasters, you'll get many opinions as to which sound better. I won't bore you with mine.

go ahead Dan, nothing wrong with boredom.

[Udi Koomran]

The first four albums you better pick on Repertoire, and the rest on Alucard.

now that is plain and clear thank you
At one point I felt I entered a minefield ...
Whats wrong with the latest 2011 remasters I understood they are the first to actually use the master tapes

[Progatron]

Steve is keen to do new stereo mixes to include 5.1, of Octopus, IAGH and
TP&TG.

Wow, he's making more a name for himself as an engineer than he is a musician! I have picked up the KC, Tull, Caravan and ELP mixes he's done but I think I'm going to stop there for awhile. It's all getting a bit much and I don't know that I can justify re-buying *everything*. I'm quite happy with the GG editions I have. I've bought Octopus twice already, and the 35th. anniversary edition of IAGH sounds pretty good to my ears. TP&TG is not my favourite really. So I may pass on these unless I hear that they are spectacular (like some of the Crimsons). I would happily shell out, though, for a 'Wilsonized' version of A Passion Play or Topographic Oceans.

Great, though, that he is showing such love for these classics and therefore possibly getting younger fans interested. :up

[no.nine]

The first four albums you better pick on Repertoire, and the rest on Alucard.


now that is plain and clear thank you
At one point I felt I entered a minefield ...


Well, yes you did. How could it not be a minefield with a CD catalog so convoluted as GG's?

Sure it's easy enough to say just buy the first four on Repertoire and the rest on Alucard, and for currently available CDs that's probably largely accurate. But certainly folks are going to chime in with what they feel are your best options, even if some of those might require a little digging to find.

For example, the EMI/Alucards might be the best of your easily obtainable options, but I don't feel any of the three I've heard are necessarily an optimal choice, even if they do have their good points.

[NorthNY Mark]

now that is plain and clear thank you
At one point I felt I entered a minefield ...
Whats wrong with the latest 2011 remasters I understood they are the first to actually use the master tapes

The consensus among audiophiles has generally been that they are pretty good in terms of overall tonality--considerably better than the 35th Anniversary remasters--but are quite dynamically compressed. If you don't mind that, they are probably a good bet. If you do mind it, then you may have to do some digging for older masterings (or the highly regarded but expensive Japanese SHM-SACD for Octopus).

[zombywoof]

The consensus among audiophiles has generally been that they are pretty good in terms of overall tonality--considerably better than the 35th Anniversary remasters--but are quite dynamically compressed. If you don't mind that, they are probably a good bet. If you do mind it, then you may have to do some digging for older masterings (or the highly regarded but expensive Japanese SHM-SACD for Octopus).

I have the 2011 version of Octopus which is pretty good. I slightly prefer the Repetoire, but you can't go wrong with either. I can't comment on Three Friends.

[strawberrybrick]

It's all getting a bit much and I don't know that I can justify re-buying *everything*. [/I].



Honestly I go back to the stereo versions far more than I do the 5.1

[Dok]

The SACD of Octopus is the way to go if you have the playback capability. If not I would go with the Alucards from TF onwards. Eroc did a great job on the REP's but he didn't have the original sources.

[Mister Triscuits]

I think the US release of Acquiring the Taste came after the US release of Three Friends. I can't remember where I read that originally (and I admittedly don't know if it's accurate), but a reviewer on Amazon states the same thing:

"Interestingly, "Three Friends" was their debut in the U.S. as both "Gentle Giant" and the superb follow up "Acquiring the Taste" were not released in the United States initially."

This is not true; Acquiring the Taste was released in the USA in 1971. I still have an old copy of Rolling Stone (Jim Morrison cover; he had just died) with an ad for the album, complete with mention of the US catalog number.

[Progbear]

This is not true; Acquiring the Taste was released in the USA in 1971. I still have an old copy of Rolling Stone (Jim Morrison cover; he had just died) with an ad for the album, complete with mention of the US catalog number.

Indeed, I remember my copy of ATT (on Vertigo, catalogue # VEL-1005) carrying a 1971 copyright date. It had the same black and white swirl Vertigo label as the first Jade Warrior LP.

Where did this misinformation about it not being released in the US, or coming out after 3F, begin? :huh

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MIKE (a.k.a. "Progbear")

"That's my purse! I don't know you!" --Bobby Hill

N.P.:“Silver Sky”-Synthetic Block

[JeffCarney]

Anybody who would call Repertoire a "good company" is on a different planet of label appreciation. They may have once been "great," but their MO in recent years as regards sonics is utterly pathetic. The sources Eroc was given for the GG albums on Repertoire were an absolute joke.

If people like them, I guess that says a lot about his work and how it appeals to many listeners.

It should be noted that the first GG was done by Eroc before he changed his approach and started to master with a lighter touch, so don't expect anything like the way he mastered AtT.

[aplodon]

I'm not as nuts about the Line CDs as some folks.

I think I once bought them on your recommendation.;)

[JeffCarney]

I think I once bought them on your recommendation.;)

;)

Yup. It's rare, but I do change my mind on some things. And when I revisited Gentle Giant on vinyl, the Line CDs just didn't sound right any longer. Too much treble.

Still think most of them are pretty decent for digital, however.

[zombywoof]

This is not true; Acquiring the Taste was released in the USA in 1971. I still have an old copy of Rolling Stone (Jim Morrison cover; he had just died) with an ad for the album, complete with mention of the US catalog number.

Interesting ... I bet those US copies are quite rare.

[Gorillclub]

;)

Yup. It's rare, but I do change my mind on some things. And when I revisited Gentle Giant on vinyl, the Line CDs just didn't sound right any longer. Too much treble.

Still think most of them are pretty decent for digital, however.

I revisited my original GG octopus vynil with new cardriges on my old record player and it was a mixed feeling ... while micro dynamics outperform CD released I've got I found the vinyl a little bit muffled ( more on the Grado than the shure cardrige ...) . i didn't A/B compare with the CD but I remember it was extremely dynamic with few or no compression at all at the mastering stage ... So i was a little bit disapointed by the vinyl...

[JeffCarney]

I revisited my original GG octopus vynil with new cardriges on my old record player and it was a mixed feeling ... while micro dynamics outperform CD released I've got I found the vinyl a little bit muffled ( more on the Grado than the shure cardrige ...) . i didn't A/B compare with the CD but I remember it was extremely dynamic with few or no compression at all at the mastering stage ... So i was a little bit disapointed by the vinyl...

I hear ya. I picked up a German Vertigo LP of 'Octopus' and at first it sounded kind of "muffled" after years of listening to that album on CD. But after a few plays I realized the drums sounded so much more balanced. Really powerful, booming, and not so overly "crispy." Then I heard the SHM-SACD and that sounded very similar. After a while, when I went back to the Line CD, it just sounded way too bright. This stuff is all relative but since the SHM-SACD was supposedly transferred "flat," I think the original recording was not so bright as it ended up sounding on CD through the years.

[no.nine]

This is not true; Acquiring the Taste was released in the USA in 1971. I still have an old copy of Rolling Stone (Jim Morrison cover; he had just died) with an ad for the album, complete with mention of the US catalog number.

Thanks for that info; I guess that settles it. So Three Friends wasn't their US debut after all. Of course, it's still likely accurate that Columbia felt they had a free hand ( :lol ) to use the debut's artwork since it wasn't released in the US.

[Progbear]

"Well what d'you know? Just yesterday I was speaking to Ray, and he was
telling me all about Steve Wilson. They have done some projects together and
Steve is keen to do new stereo mixes to include 5.1, of Octopus, IAGH and
TP&TG. We would have some challenges regarding licences etc, but if you
think this a good idea we can start the various negotiations."

As you might imagine, there was unanimous approval from the membership. How could they suck?

Oh yes. Because we just haven’t truly “heard” classic 70s prog until Steve “God” Wilson has reimagined it in his own image. :roll

-------------
MIKE (a.k.a. "Progbear")

"It is not an obscenity to be free. It is a divine right." --Annette Peacock

N.P.:“Les criticotteuses”-Conventum/À l’affût d’un complot

[strawberrybrick]

Oh yes. Because we just haven’t truly “heard” classic 70s prog until Steve “God” Wilson has reimagined it in his own image. :roll



LOL!

[zombywoof]

Oh yes. Because we just haven’t truly “heard” classic 70s prog until Steve “God” Wilson has reimagined it in his own image. :roll



NEW SIG!!

[Plasmatopia]

I just picked up a used copy of the debut (on Vertigo) for $10. From reading the above posts, it seems I've done reasonably well?

This just leaves Civilian for me to acquire. And I'll probably try to get a couple more of the Alucard releases since I seem to favor those (or at least the ones I've heard).

[Progbear]

NEW SIG!!

Cool. I don’t think I’ve ever been .sigged before!


This just leaves Civilian for me to acquire.

A lot of people here seem to like it. I consider it their most superfluous disc. If I want to hear music like this, I’ll listen to an early Elvis Costello disc and get something I won’t get from Civilian: good, inspired songs.

-------------
MIKE (a.k.a. "Progbear")

"Siento que debemos saber para el sueño de quién brillará esta luz
o consagrar una propia estrella" --Alberto Felici

N.P.:“Playing the Game”-Gentle Giant/The Power and the Glory

[JIF]

I'm glad to finally get my hands on a copy of Three Friends that uses the "correct" master tapes. I dig the sound, but it's wierd hearing Three Friends in this "new" way. I like how the last track started with a stroke of Kerry's electric piano.

[strawberrybrick]

^JIF, which version is that?

[JIF]

^JIF, which version is that?I was referring to the 2011 Alucard remaster.

[Mr_Rubbish]

Was just putting my Alucard version of Power and the Glory away and noticed the poor qualityscreen printing on the disc, on further inspection it looks to me that this is a white-top CDR, the screen print is orange with the white showing though from beneath. On the playing side of the disc the serial numbers around the centre have nothing to do with the catalogue number. Anyone else suspicious?

[Digital_Man]

Most would probably say the essential GG albums were the ones from AtT to FH(some will include Interview in there but if you do that I say you may as well also include the debut which is very under rated).

[The Czar]

Udi, considering you are coming to these from a relatively new point of view, just get the Alucard remasters.
I would just start with Playing the Fool live.
I think if you liked the Three Friends live show, this will be your best way to see if you like them past that.
It covers a lot of their albums, shows the band at it's most versatile and the vocals are really fantastic!
If you continue from there, I would suggest the version of Octopus from 2011 with the Rodger Dean cover.

[grego]

To me, "classic" GG albums starts from debut and ends on MP side 2. So it's about 8, 5 albums)