Chapman Stick - go for it?

[Dave G]

after seeing Stick Men again I have really been thinking about giving the Chapman Stick a try...
I have been playing guitar for 20+ years and some bass along the way as well.
I am quite comfortable around the neck of a guitar and playing in different styles.
I am not super-sick but I do my thing and still play out - in the past few years mostly at Yoga studios with Indian musicians.
talking about a huge investment for the instrument and time to learn something completely new.
I would LOVE to incorporate the stick into my Indian fusion excursions and elsewhere.
I grew up listening to Tony Levin with KC/ABWH/PG etc and 80's KC really blowing my mind especially through the years.

has anyone here taken the plunge?
any advice from my proggy musician pals here?
I am not a big gear-head I have always focused more on listening and playing than equipment specs and such so the whole idea is a little intimidating.
I would also need to amp it and I am sure that is not cheap...

[Mikhael]

Do you tap (like the Van Halen thing)? If you are comfortable with doing that, the learning curve will be less. As far as amplifying it, I think it matters as to which model you get (not familiar with current permutations of the instrument). I say that because I remember the bassist (stickist?) for ToE's stick had stereo outputs, so that you could run one side to a bass amp, and the other to a guitar amp, if you chose to go that direction. Generally, he ran his to a bass amp, which nowadays are usually full range amps, having a horn in them as well.

[trurl]

The only thing that keeps me from trying one is affording the thing :D If you can I would say it's worth a shot! I do tend to think if one has any piano/keyboard experience at all the hand independence is probably a plus but I don't really know...

[Lebofsky]

I got a (very similar) Warr guitar a while ago (6 bass, 6 guitar strings). I tune it sort of "standard" - the guitar half is regular guitar tuning (i.e. not just straight 4ths) but starting at low b (given the scale of the instrument) and the bass half is starting at low B (in the middle of the neck) and going up to the ceiling in 5ths. I'm a pianist by birth, so hand independence is not an issue. It has separate outs for the guitar/bass halves, though there is minor crosstalk. I used it to some effect in a duo with drums.

That said... I rarely use it these days. It's a beautiful instrument, and great for recording specific things given its clear and specific tones, but it's a pain in the ass to master giving the weird tuning. I am considering getting the nut redone so the bass is in standard 6-string bass tuning, which could help. The reverse stringing makes sense if you have small fingers or mostly use it as a bass instrument. But even when all is said and done, 99.9% of what I can do on a Warr I could easily just do on a keyboard. Or a 5 string bass. So there's so effort and true passion involved to transcend all this and make true music with this instrument. I'm not sure I'll ever get there. I have too many other normal instruments to work with...

- Matt

[AdventAlan]

Hi Dave,

The Stick is a wonderful instrument, but I find it to also be a pretty serious commitment in terms of time and effort (one that I haven't fulfilled as successfully as I'd hoped, even though I have no regrets at all about taking the plunge at getting as far I have with the instrument). I think your best bet is to try one out first--just to get a better sense of the instrument and how it feels. (Assuming you're the Dave G. I think you are, you're welcome to come over and try mine.)

As far as amplification goes, there are quite a few ways to approach things that mostly depend on the type of sound(s) you're looking for. I really love the natural "Stickup" sound and prefer to go direct through a D-Tar Solstice preamp these days and just add basic effects in my DAW--which sounds like this:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjCeWMuVhLU

(I only have a reverb on the master track here and nothing else.)

Depending on budget and portability requirements, you can also combine the pickups (with a Y adapter) and plug into a guitar amp or small PA/acoustic guitar amp. (I bought a Fishman Loudbox 100 for this purpose, but now generally run my guitar's piezo and guitar synth through it instead.)

I hope this helps.

Cheers,


Alan

[No Pride]

Hi Dave,

The Stick is a wonderful instrument, but I find it to also be a pretty serious commitment in terms of time and effort
^
This! I'm a reasonably proficient guitar player, at least enough that I've managed to make a living at it for 35 years... and I'm a halfway decent pianist too (though I've never played it or any other keyboard with a band), but... I picked up a Stick at a music store a long time ago and I couldn't do shit with it; couldn't even play "Mary Had a Little Lamb." I put it down after a minute and haven't touched one since. I don't mean to discourage; just be sure you have a lot of time and patience if you're going to persue it!

[Dave G]

thanks so much for your thoughtful replies....all of this helps me as it is a big leap I know.
I have to think about it for a while, perhaps try one sometime.

[Thebigdipper]

Dave,

Just seen this. I bought a Stick through eBay without having ever held one. Like you, I've been a guitarist for many years. I played nothing else. Up until last weekend I would say my total time on the instrument was 5 or 6 hours.

I don't think you can make a decision on the pros and cons of a Stick for you just by trying one. Despite the guitar experience, I believe you'll feel like a complete beginner and it will not help you play it or make a decision. Tapping on a Stick is nothing like a guitar. The strings have far less tension and need a light touch.

Last weekend, I attended an informal seminar in London, hosted at a private home with just 10 delegates. It completely blew me away and I've not touched a guitar this week, focusing totally on the Stick. I was lucky enough to get a 1-2-1 beginners lesson from the awesomely-talented and truly nice guy Jim Lampi (Try YouTube searches...). Progress has been good and I'm feeling like I will be able to play this instrument at some point. More importantly, I feel the effort required to get me there will be worthwhile.

Don't be put off by stories of people who couldn't get on with a Stick. That's just their experience and yours will be your own. I find the 4ths and 5ths tuning to be logical and useful.

So, what can you do?

Buy an instrument. As a beginner, either 10 string or 12 string would be fine, as would any pickup - although my preference is for the original stereo passive pickup, the Stickup. There's plenty of advice out there on websites that you can easily find through Google. If you give it a go but don't like it, you'll get your money back. They hold their value. YouTube has plenty of tutorials. Several respected teachers offer lessons via Skype and their pupils say it works really well. The are also lots of books, CDs and DVDs for beginners. The Stick community is small and friendly.

At the seminar, I told someone thought I had taken a foolish big leap of faith by buying a Stick and jumping off into the unknown. The reply was "that is what we all did"!

Do it. You only live once. And good luck!

Norman

[Thebigdipper]

Oh, and while I'm still in full gush mode...

Amps/Effects:
I'd suggest starting out with the bare minimum and just learn to play it. Decide if you want to take it further before splashing out on lots of equipment. I already owned a small 5w valve amp (hot-rodded from an Epiphone Jr.) for playing guitar at home, so I put the melody strings through that. I bought a used, small bass combo (Marshall B65, eBay, inexpensive) and I put the bass side through that. Works a treat at domestic volumes. That is plenty of nice sound to let me learn to be musical on the instrument, with the ability to balance volumes and EQ each side independently. I've not got any effects in use - I want to hear all my mistakes!

What do other people use?
Acoustic guitar amps that take two inputs seem to be popular, such as Roland, AER and Fishman products. The final output is usually mono, but they have the ability to volume/EQ each side of the pickup before blending the result.
At the weekend, I saw a Line6 HD500 being used into a PA, as it will take a stereo feed if you put one side into the guitar input and the other into the Aux input. I believe you can process both channels with their own settings (inc. effects) before blending into mono after that. It sounded fantastic.
The Axe/Fx seems to be the Rolls Royce solution for those in the digital domain. One of the coaches at the weekend had one of those. That also sounds fantastic.
The Bose L1 or Fishman equivalent seems to be popular for playing small venues.
Stickup pickups seem to sound pretty good plugged straight into the hi-Z inputs on small PA systems, too.
And finally, lots of people are plugging straight into their laptops using stereo audio interfaces and software emulators.

N

[Dave G]

thanks so much Norman - that is truly encouraging and congrats of making the leap I am considering.
I kind of feel it calling to me somehow ...will try to manifest it somehow
all the best in your stick endeavors!
I already have a Fishman loudbox and guitar + bass + keyboard amps so I am sure I could find a way to amp the stick based on the comments above.

[Dave G]

oh yeah - Alan nice playing - & yes I am the Dave G you think I am :)
may want to take you up on that offer sometime

[wideopenears]

Given your Indian fusion comments, you should check out Teed Rockwell, who plays Classical Indian stuff on a stick.

Good luck--it's a cool instrument, one I've wanted to try...but finding the time is impossible these days.

[SunshipVoyager]

I'm a drummer not a guitarist or bassist, but I say go for it only because of the wide range of marvelous new sounds you will have available to you.

Alphonso Johnson playing stick with Weather Report was my first exposure to the instrument, and with Tony Levin & King Crimson, I became a full fledged fan of it.

And as a rhythm player, it is really fun to play along with... ;)

[spknoevl]

I remember going over to Terry Gowan's house (Lawrence Gowan's brother) years ago just after he bought his Stick and trying to play it. Despite it being a stringed instrument, any similarity with a guitar or bass is strictly visual. It really is like learning to play a new instrument. I think I had a similar experience when I tried to learn to play the violin a few years ago.

Love the instrument, but it just isn't for me

[rob martino]

It took several years and a few different variations, but when it finally clicked the Stick totally changed the course of my musical path, and I've been playing it exclusively for the past 9 years. I can relate to the sensation of it being a new experience that requires a learning curve and some dedicated focus, but at this point I wouldn't have it any other way- it pulls together many of the things I love about piano, guitar and bass, and gives me a singular focus for developing proficiency (as opposed to continuing along as a mediocre multi-instrumentalist). I've simplified my approach to composition and performance- instead of being buried in musical gear, which ultimately made me unproductive, I've distilled some of my influences down to their essentials and have focused on arranging complete pieces I can perform live, and it's very rewarding and liberating.

Part of what made the instrument work for me was developing a mirrored 4ths tuning- I really wanted to adapt a lot of the melodic bass playing I enjoy, as well as the intricacy of acoustic guitarists like Ian Anderson, and the 4ths provide a more direct path to those closer voiced chords and scalar patterns.

With experience on other instruments and a decent grasp of music theory I think it's possible to make reasonably quick progress on the instrument with regular commitment. There's just so much open territory and many possibilities to explore with the instrument, and personally I feel like I'm still just scratching the surface.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXYkP9YI8fI

[rob martino]

Stick enthusiasts might be interested to know about Emmett's new instrument design, a 10-string model with a precisely machined fretboard made of one piece of aluminum (frets are "carved" right onto the board and anodized to harden them, no labor intensive fret gluing and filing needed, thus reducing the cost as well).

http://stick.com/instruments/railboard/

[sticktap]

Getting into this discussion a little late.
Here's a video of my friend Rich from "Rich and the Railboard" putting the Railboard through it's paces.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGqG2VsK9pE&feature=youtu.be

[wideopenears]

Question for Stick players....how does Tony Levin get that sustain/e-bow lack of attack sound that he uses sometimes? For example, the beginning of Satori In Tangiers?

Is it effects? Or a method of playing the thing? Or both?

[Polypet]

Hi Dave,

The Stick is a wonderful instrument...

An instrument which you play beautifully, imho. B.Sue actually has one and has done some stuff with it. I'd agree with the folks mentioning commitment, which is of course no different than any other instrument, really. They all require commitment to master and develop one's voice on them.

I think the Stick has a very special sound and character. Working with it gives one a different perspective and produces different musical ideas. The tuning of the Stick, which is rather unusual and cool, makes one think differently. I've only used it in a very ad hoc way myself but B.Sue, for quite awhile, was working with it pretty actively. It was with the Stick that she wrote "The Sandman Song" (one of the songs on our album "Day of Our Lives"). That chord progression would not have occurred as it did on any other instrument. In many cases, at least in my experience, the instrument will bring about music uniquely specific to itself. Although it's not so different in certain ways than music she or i might write otherwise, it was music which came down filtered through the Stick and it's unusual layout and tuning. Also interesting are the kinds of music one can write for the Stick. I wrote a piece called Jellysuit for a performance she did at a Stick recital which was surprisingly easy for her to play on the Stick (and sounded great) but which would be quite non-trivial on a guitar or bass (and really for most keyboardists as well). It sounded so natural on that instrument though.

I love 'em. That said, i've heard a lot of ho hum Stick playing. It's not an instrument one can just mess around with and expect to get real soulful quality instrumental goodness. In those cases, you are better off playing a more standard thing. But if you do take the time to master it - and when you hear the masters play, it's mind blowing. I had the good fortune to meet and hang out with Emmett Chapman in Santa Cruz not long after he invented it. He played at the University there regularly and it was astounding. When i first heard him, he was playing some Mahavishnu tune and i couldn't believe it was one guy on one instrument. It was SO good.

Go with God and get one, if you have time to spend with it or even if you just want to expand your palette of musical tools. You can spend a lifetime learning and mastering it, i think. Time well spent, surely!

[Soc Prof]

The only thing that keeps me from trying one is affording the thing :D

A friend and I once lamented that there is no Squier Chapman stick. I guess the market is too small for cheaper knock offs.

[warrplayer]

Question for Stick players....how does Tony Levin get that sustain/e-bow lack of attack sound that he uses sometimes? For example, the beginning of Satori In Tangiers?

Is it effects? Or a method of playing the thing? Or both?

Fades in each note with a volume pedal.