Walking Dead Thread V.3

[Planechant]

Last nights episode. Just amazing. And how many clues. Folks at the beginning happy and joking. Glenn, "Can't we have one good day?" No, Glenn, you can't. Watching this it really felt like (to take from another show, on just before), there are no happy endings in store. Initially, the happy ending is that they survive the plague, then find safety, save their relationship, uphold the nobility of human civilization ... whatever ... but after last night's episode: is there hope for any of that. Can anyone posit a series of events that might lead to a "good outcome" without betraying the promises the show has already made.

[Jerjo]

A horrible death for the Governor would be a step in the right direction. Then have Hershel as mayor of Grovers Corner or whatever they call it.

[dropforge]

Grovers Corner or whatever they call it.

Woodbury.

[dropforge]

Last nights episode. Just amazing. And how many clues. Folks at the beginning happy and joking. Glenn, "Can't we have one good day?" No, Glenn, you can't.

He has a good day everyday. He bangs the hottest chick on the show.

[Old Boy]

He has a good day everyday. He bangs the hottest chick on the show.

That! :up

[Jerjo]

There's no way that Carol is dead.

And who the hell is that watching the prison. It sure wasn't that missing inmate.

[jeffo621]

I better migrate the my postings over to the new forum. I don't think the Guv is going to die a horrible death (or get horribly tortured) anytime soon. He's too good a character right now - he lasts at least the season is my guess

[BobM]

gotta catch up - due to Sandy I have DVR'ed the last few episodes.

[Paulie]

This show is gritty and brutal. Love it!

[izz_brian]

Man, I don't think I've ever gotten choked up from a Walking Dead episode. Even with the Sophia reveal in Season 2, it was more a "No! Aw, man!" reaction. I watched the whole Lori thing, and Rick losing it just fine, but as soon as the scene ended I felt this lump in my throat and thought, "Oh my God...they got me!" What a powerful episode, and how incredibly acted!

[Sunhillow]

With the rate of main and recurring cast dying, they need to bring in more regulars to die. At this tempo, and the end there's only Rick.

[Plasmatopia]

My wife was a big fan of Sarah Wayne Callies in the "Prison Break" series, but neither of us have cared for her in this series at all. Speaking for myself she was probably my least favorite character of the show. Yes, the triangle relationship thing brought an interesting dimension, but...any time she was actually involved in a scene I found myself hoping the focus would shift to other sub-plots. The saddest part of the most recent episode (to me) was Rick's (and the groups) reaction, but I can't say I will miss the character...

In general I love the series so far though. Mostly it's very well thought out and I'm not finding a lot of "oh, that is so stupid" moments where they do nonsensical things that take you out of story. I will say I thought it was stupid how they went about cleaning out the prison...and it's been consistently stupid this season with respect to that issue. They keep complaining about being low on ammo, but never stop shooting. They have fences and gates/doors with bars on them, but seem incapable of just waiting for the zombies to come to them and getting them with the knives and rebars - they insist on mixing it up hand-to-hand style.

[Just Eric]

Man, I don't think I've ever gotten choked up from a Walking Dead episode. Even with the Sophia reveal in Season 2, it was more a "No! Aw, man!" reaction. I watched the whole Lori thing, and Rick losing it just fine, but as soon as the scene ended I felt this lump in my throat and thought, "Oh my God...they got me!" What a powerful episode, and how incredibly acted!I cried. That was the most intense and emotional episode of the series to date! Frikkin' Awesome!

[Klonk]

Incredibly powerful episode. Definitely lingered with me for a bit.

[nosebone]

Next week should be great.

Less emo, more zombies!

[Boceephus]

The show definitely has Marty & me hooked. Nice to see the kid grew a set & took care of business. Total mind-fu*k.

[Planechant]

Next week should be great.

Less emo, more zombies!
I didn't think there was any shortage of zombies in this one!

[BobM]

Went to my DVR last night and ... no show for last week. The storm and power outages screwed me over. Of coutrse it's not "on demand" either. I had to reset all my series recordings all over again, so I will get the next show. There is a show playing Friday night - maybe that's a replay of last week (lets hope so) otherwise I will probably have to watch it on-line.

[Klonk]

Don't they usually air the previous week's episode before each new episode? If so, just make it a 2fer. :up

[polmico]

I better migrate the my postings over to the new forum. I don't think the Guv is going to die a horrible death (or get horribly tortured) anytime soon. He's too good a character right now - he lasts at least the season is my guess
Not any time soon. If they're going to follow the comics at all here, he's got a lot more bad shit to do before he gets his comeuppance (and boy does he ever get it!).

[jeffo621]

Polmico said:

he's got a lot more bad shit to do before he gets his comeuppance

Yup, something is going to come up somewhere. Yikes.

And I think I'm doing a 2fer this Sunday too - this episode definitely has some rewatchability

[PapaJimH]

Big fan!

[Boceephus]

One of my favorite shows. Intense.

[jeffo621]

Great ep last night too - Rick has totally lost it. Now the question is, what the F*** is up with the phone - psychoses or not? (And I intentionally avoid the "next week..." trailer to avoid spoilers)

Daryl was awesome with the baby

And.... THE GLADIATOR PIT!!!!!!

[Jerjo]

The phone thing was a mystery to me. I thought with no power an old land line like that wouldn't work.

Loved the Gladiator Pit - Meryl is one tough sonovabitch.

[Just Eric]

No spoilers in the trailer, but a focus on the ringing phone.

Rick's craziness was awesome and he probably cleaned up most of the prison. So, is Andrea going to bolt now and try to catch up to Michonne? Is Daryl going to step in and be the Dad that Rick can't or are they going to be My Two Dads to baby Laurie (Little Ass-Kicker)? And, where is Carol? She didn't die .....

[nosebone]

Best season overall so far.....

[jeffo621]

Loved the Gladiator Pit - Meryl is one tough sonovabitch.

Yup, as Daryl said back in season 1, "He'd eat a hammer and crap out nails."


And, where is Carol? She didn't die .....

And Melissa McBride was listed in the "also starring" credits. She must've been in a scene that was cut or there was an intentional misdirection on the producers behalf. We haven't seen the last of that character though - they wouldn't leave a thread open-ended like that

[The Fantastic Progo Rican]

So who's on the other side of the phone?

[scags]

One question- how the hell did they catch Michonne after she carved up the zombies, without a whole bunch of people getting sliced?

[Jerjo]

My guess is that they had guns and she chose to surrender quietly.

[Plasmatopia]

Stupid question, but who was the shirtless zombie that Rick was mutilating?

[Klonk]

That was the zombie that ate his dead wife.

[Plasmatopia]

Thanks! Wow...not sure how I missed that...

[scags]

maybe, no one saw it. or Carl drill her , for what it's worth.

[m.k]

Could it be that the kid shot the zombie rather than his mother, as it was gorging on her. It was already dead-dead when Rick came across it, wasn't it?

[jeffo621]

I missed it too - I couldn't exactly figure out what was going on until someone told me.

It wasn't brain dead, and it looked pretty bloated when Rick found it. He then stuck the gun in its mouth before then knifing the hell out of it.

I'm pretty sure that Carl "put Lori down," and the zombie was in scavenge mode and just stumbled upon a meal

A bit of a non-sequitor here, but do they ever called the geeks, walkers or biters "zombies" in the show? I'm pretty sure they don't

[dropforge]

A bit of a non-sequitor here, but do they ever called the geeks, walkers or biters "zombies" in the show? I'm pretty sure they don't

No, but last season they were called "lamebrains" in one episode. :rofl

[m.k]

It wasn't brain dead, and it looked pretty bloated when Rick found it. He then stuck the gun in its mouth before then knifing the hell out of it.

I'm pretty sure that Carl "put Lori down," and the zombie was in scavenge mode and just stumbled upon a meal

:up I'd completely forgot about the gun in the mouth part.


"lamebrains"

Shoot me NOW! I think I'm "turning"... lol

[Hal...]

but I can't say I will miss the character...Agreed. I was talking to my niece about the first season and she got really worked up about all the dumb shit Lori did. I told her, "you're giving the writers too much credit." lol


They have fences and gates/doors with bars on them, but seem incapable of just waiting for the zombies to come to them and getting them with the knives and rebars -
I know. I don't know why they didn't find some way of simply coaxing the walkers in the prison outside where they could be killed or corralled away.


The phone thing was a mystery to me. I thought with no power an old land line like that wouldn't work.
Phone lines provide their own electricity. Of course, the phone company has to have power. However, it could also simply be a line that can't dial out and if there's any power to any part of the prison, there ya go. But trying to figure all that out means the writers have either fucked up or the details will be explained later.

I'm betting on the former. :lol That said, while I had a lot of problems with the writing of last season, this season is much better, other than the part Guy touched on.


So who's on the other side of the phone?
Carol?

[polmico]

Phone lines provide their own electricity. Of course, the phone company has to have power. However, it could also simply be a line that can't dial out and if there's any power to any part of the prison, there ya go. But trying to figure all that out means the writers have either fucked up or the details will be explained later.


The phone is not a fuck up and the detail will be explained. Give it a show or two. I let it slip when I was watching the show with my wife. I forgot they hadn't done the phone yet in the show. It's been in the comic book already. So I'll just hold my tongue.

[nosebone]

I knew it!

Rick's group vs. Gov'na is comming.

The phone thing was weird and took up too much time, but Meryl ( Michael Rooker) owned tonight's episode.

[Paulie]

Attention fellow zombie fans! :O


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcwTxRuq-uk

[scags]

Good episode. They set up a lot of heavy action for the next episode, without being boring.

[Jerjo]

Spoiler alert for lurkers







OK - phone thing explained. So when Herschel picked up the phone, I assume he didn't hear the dial tone and figured out what was going on.

Next plot hole to fill, why is the prison so invisible and hard to find. Are there no maps, no road signs? Michonne makes it there by walking so it can't be far from either the Gov's town or where Merle met up with his two captives. So what the fuck?

But yeah, good episode.

[jeffo621]

Maybe Michonne knows the area - she clearly heard them talking about the prison (and how many prisons could there be?). She's obviously an expert at surviving- her actions in the jungle were like some sort of Ninja/Rambo hybrid - so it's not a stretch that she could've just "figured it out"

While it was obvious that Michonne got some viscera splattered on her, I'm beginning to wonder if she has some sort of "zombie immunity" that causes them to not pay attention to her.

[Hal...]

That WWZ trailer looks fantastic. I have a feeling it's going to be a lot better than the book, which left me wanting.

[Plasmatopia]

Very good episode!

[Klonk]

The episode really took off after the kind of dull phone call stuff. I was pissed when it ended!

[Plasmatopia]

Yeah - it felt like it was just getting started and then it ended.

[polmico]

Next plot hole to fill, why is the prison so invisible and hard to find. Are there no maps, no road signs? Michonne makes it there by walking so it can't be far from either the Gov's town or where Merle met up with his two captives. So what the fuck?



Nope. Not far. Nobody thought of going there.

[polmico]

While it was obvious that Michonne got some viscera splattered on her, I'm beginning to wonder if she has some sort of "zombie immunity" that causes them to not pay attention to her.

No. She's just fuckin' awesome.

[JKL2000]

The girl with Glenn is still the only hot one. I kind of agree that it's good Lori is gone - she was annoying. And the blond with the guv I never liked. Sorry, a lot of the names just don't stick for me. Michonne is irritating, though good with her blade.

[Plasmatopia]

Both Michonne and the blonde are totally shag-able.

[JKL2000]

Both Michonne and the blonde are totally shag-able.

Not IMO. But that's just me. BTW, I didn't like Lori (sp?), but she was bangable. Never liked the blonde, but her sister was hot as I recall.

[Plasmatopia]

Lori = not interested in the slightest...

[dropforge]

Both Michonne and the blonde are totally shag-able.

And then some.

[moecurlythanu]

Hitting it's stride now, after a couple episodes with wtf? moments.

[Jerjo]

How many episodes do we have left to go? I can't wait for the Guv and Rick to go to war.

[scags]

I believe there's a total of 15 this year, but I'm not sure if there's a break in the middle.

[JKL2000]

Both Michonne and the blonde are totally shag-able.

Not to me, but if they'd let Lori turn, then let Michonne and the blonde get it on with Zombie Lori, then they'd have had something.

[Joe F.]

I believe there's a total of 15 this year, but I'm not sure if there's a break in the middle.

16 with a break in the middle.

[jeffo621]

Next week will be the midseason finale. Not sure when it will pick up.

Glen showed that he is one tough SOB in last night's episode. Michonne showed that she is very calculating - did you notice that she didn't really do too much when they were in the forest? I think she's hesitant to show what she is capable of. The Governor is one evil SOB. And Merle - I can't quite figure out. I don't even think he's sure where his loyalties lie, and it will be interesting to see how the writers resolve his situation. The easy way would be for him to die heroically (killing the Governor?), most likely right after he reconciles with Daryl. It's a bit "Hollywood," so I hope they think of something a little less lazy than that

- Jeff

[scags]

Fighting a zombie while tied to a chair doesn't look like fun. They have things set up for some serious action next week, to hold us over for the break.

[jeffo621]

Yeah, and it'll sound a bit of a stereotype (even though Steven Yuen is Korean) but he took a page out of the Jackie Chan Playbook there - that was a really terrific action scene

[nosebone]

The Zombie vs, Glen in a chair was a highlight.

Big battle next week, it'll be interesting to see who's left standing...,

[scags]

They also addressed the question of the prison- they knew about it, but considered it too full of "Biters"

[Edwin333]

Nope. Not far. Nobody thought of going there.

They knew about the prison. When Merrel tells the gov that Glen and Maggie and their group were living in the prison he said ... It's was over-run by biters.

* oops, sorry scags, I just noticed your reply.... at least there's two of us paying attention :p

[dropforge]

Yeah, and it'll sound a bit of a stereotype (even though Steven Yuen is Korean) but he took a page out of the Jackie Chan Playbook

:lol

Joke aside, great scene, and like Merle said, being out on the road has put some hair on Glenn's balls. :lol

[Hal...]

Overall, I thought that was a really good episode. The scenes with Glenn were definitely the highlights.

The scene with the Governor and what's-her-name bothered me a little.

The scene where Michonne shows up at the prison and just about everything that followed... :roll. I just figured she would have known about a group Andrea got separated from and maybe would have even known a name or two.

I don't know, I just thought those scenes with Michonne and Rick & the Gang weren't written very well.

[jeffo621]

Hal said:


The scene with the Governor and what's-her-name bothered me a little.


Then I suppose it was effective - it was really creepy and unsettling. In the books, he repeatedly and brutally raped Michonne while Glen was listening in the other room. So it could've been a lot worse (and they may still go that route)



I don't know, I just thought those scenes with Michonne and Rick & the Gang weren't written very well.


It did seem a bit clumsy, but Michonne is keeping things close to the vest - she's feeling out Rick's group just the same way that she was feeling out the Woodbury group. If you notice, in the forest she didn't kill any walkers because she didn't (IMO) want to show what she is capable of. She also didn't mention Andrea either - and she has to know that this is the group that Andrea was with.

[BobM]

Just curious, but it seems to me that all that sticking knives and such through almost any part of the skull would actually be quite hard in real life. The skull is a pretty hard shell, but these guys make it look like they are putting (almost anything) through it like it was just a sandbag.

Anyone here who knows more about the skull from a medical sense and can confirm that this looks improbably easy, at best.

[jeffo621]

I was just discussing the "knives through the skulls" thing the other day with a coworker - I'm willing to grant that a decomposing zombie might have pretty weak bones, and thus be easier to stab through bone (or get their skull smashed when somebody stomps on it), but that takes a bit of a leap - especially when it was someone who just recently turned, as was the case with the old dude. Of course, you have to realize that we are discussing reanimated dead people, so I guess some leaps of faith are required. :)

[moecurlythanu]

The scene with the Governor and what's-her-name bothered me a little.


Using her vulnerability, and the threat of sexual violation on a woman prisoner...Didn't look to me like it was the first time he'd done that.

[moecurlythanu]

I was just discussing the "knives through the skulls" thing the other day with a coworker - I'm willing to grant that a decomposing zombie might have pretty weak bones, and thus be easier to stab through bone (or get their skull smashed when somebody stomps on it), but that takes a bit of a leap - especially when it was someone who just recently turned, as was the case with the old dude. Of course, you have to realize that we are discussing reanimated dead people, so I guess some leaps of faith are required. :)

There was one ep this year where they smashed a skull and it looked like a balloon deflating rapidly. Unintentionally funny.

[nosebone]

Weak lil' zombie skull bones maybe..., but them jawbones are like pitbulls!

[Boceephus]

You'd think the eye sockets & temples would be the most reliable targets.

[dropforge]

You'd think the eye sockets & temples would be the most reliable targets.

They frequently are. Merle stabbed the disembodied head of his fallen Woodburyite in the eye socket with his pigsticker.

[nosebone]

The gunfight was confusing in last nights episode, but I'm glad the Gov has a glass eye.

And it looks like a black Rick is on the horizon...

[scags]

Pretty wild episode. Lots of set up for the next half, but enough action to enjoy.

[jeffo621]

and it looks like a black Rick is on the horizon...


Yeah, I just about fell off the couch when Tyrese appeared - he was a major part of the books, and I think a lot of fans were disappointed when he wasn't in the show - seemingly being replaced by the inconsequential T-Dog (not a bad thing - T was really just a "rank and file" character who brought nothing to the table). Tyrese was a great character in the books - and I actually think that his role was being filled by Daryl, even to the point where Daryl takes charge for a bit when Rick loses it.

Phenomenal episode last night. All eight of this season's episodes have been major hits.

One thing that is a bit of a concern - no announcements have been made for Season 4 yet. I'm sure the show is ridiculously expensive to produce, but it's ratings are off the charts (for a basic cable show), and have been improving each year. It should be a no-brainer for AMC to renew it.

[BobM]

I still can't believe that glass shard in the eye wasn't banged in a little deeper. The Governor would be better with a little "dain bramage" and a palsied zombie like limp. I have true faith that those 2 redneck brothers will be able to get out of that situation in the arena, even if they have to fight off the whole community to do so.

[dropforge]

Rippin' midseason finale. The Michonne-Governor tumble was the best part for me. The downer was getting rid of Oscar already. I don't think having him there meant they couldn't him and Tyrese both, but whuddevah.


One thing that is a bit of a concern - no announcements have been made for Season 4 yet. I'm sure the show is ridiculously expensive to produce, but it's ratings are off the charts (for a basic cable show), and have been improving each year. It should be a no-brainer for AMC to renew it.

Season 4 was greenlit before Season 3 started. Also, Talking Dead is going to one hour when it comes back in February, and Comic Book Men moves to a different night (I hope that doesn't hurt its viewership).

[dropforge]

I have true faith that those 2 redneck brothers will be able to get out of that situation in the arena, even if they have to fight off the whole community to do so.

I'd love for Daryl to kick the shit out of Merle. Merle is just no good for anybody. His two biggest qualities are beating people up (mainly when they can't fight back) and getting other people killed. Oh, wait, he makes for a great character, doesn't he? Go, Rooker! :lol

[Brad to the Bone]

With the rate of main and recurring cast dying, they need to bring in more regulars to die. At this tempo, and the end there's only Rick.

Characters are constantly coming and going throughout the comic book series. I remember thinking the series must be winding down somewhere around volume 8 or 9 but now they're up to volume 17 with no end in sight. The hardest main character death to take (for me) just occurred in volume 17.

The TV show only appriximately follows the comic book continuity, but I guess would be somewhere in the range of volumes 6-8 now.

[jeffo621]

That sounds about right, but they really are only loosely following the comic - which is great in my opinion. I can read the comic (issues 49 - 72 will be heading my way for Christmas - a nice companion to the Larks Tongues Box Set) without worrying about spoilers but getting really excited when key moments from the book happen (e.g. someone who hasn't read the books will look at Tyreese and say, "I guess this is a new character" whereas I was practically high-fiving my cat Tigger)

Speaking of possible spoilers, I thought the brief surprise cameo of Shane was very cool - and properly done. I always hate when there is a surprise appearance from someone and the character is listed in the opening credits. Save it as a "Special Guest Star" at the end

[Jerjo]

This is a theory I've seen a couple places. Merle & The Governor are teaming up to trick Daryl and the prison gang? They got tossed into one of those "screamer pits" with the toothless zombies (unknown to Daryl). They escape by some miracle, and then Merle and Daryl go back to the prison. Merle tells of his betrayal, apologizes to Glenn, and then works as an inside man for governor?

[jeffo621]

That's a decent theory, but the way Merle has been portrayed I think that he legitimately cares for his brother and wouldn't turn on him. Still, Merle is "made for this world" (as Dale told Shane) and I don't think he would last long in Rick's group where there is some semblance of order.

[scags]

Don't forget that Merle came back and told the governor that Michonne was dead and eaten. The fact that she just hammered him won't do much for Merle's standing.

[Plasmatopia]

Not to be overly critical because I'm loving this whole series, but a couple of things that annoyed me:

Right at the beginning the new group of people running from the zombies in the woods comes upon a hole in the fence at the prison? I guess without knowing exactly how the prison is laid out it's possible no one knew the hole was there, but...personally? I'd want to be checking out the perimeter of the place to make sure I knew what I was dealing with.

Also the Governor knew about the prison, but simply never bothered to clear it out because he didn't want his people to have to live there. Somewhat understandable, but it might have made sense to clear it out simply to have a nearby fallback in case the town was overrun. Anyway, he makes the comment "let the biters have it" or something like that. When there were prisoners there it made sense that walkers would have been drawn there, but why would they necessarily congregate there after everyone is gone? Then again, the Governor is a fanatic...

But I try not to focus on this stuff and just enjoy the story.

[jeffo621]

Right at the beginning the new group of people running from the zombies in the woods comes upon a hole in the fence at the prison? I guess without knowing exactly how the prison is laid out it's possible no one knew the hole was there, but...personally? I'd want to be checking out the perimeter of the place to make sure I knew what I was dealing with.


I'll give them the benefit of the doubt - we don't know how much time has elapsed since they found the prison, it's a huge area to cover, and as long as they have one area/wing block secured (and access to the infirmary and cafeteria), what more do they need? Had all of the other stuff not come up - Tomas freaking out, Lori dying, Glen and Maggie being kidnapped - they may have spent more time clearing out the prison completely, but we really don't want to see four or five episodes of them walking around clearing the prison out with no real advancement of the story.



Also the Governor knew about the prison, but simply never bothered to clear it out because he didn't want his people to have to live there. Somewhat understandable, but it might have made sense to clear it out simply to have a nearby fallback in case the town was overrun. Anyway, he makes the comment "let the biters have it" or something like that. When there were prisoners there it made sense that walkers would have been drawn there, but why would they necessarily congregate there after everyone is gone? Then again, the Governor is a fanatic...


That was a bit clumsy... unless the Governor was lying about not wanting to move the people there. If he wants a fortified stronghold, then a prison is ideal - and we saw that there is a decent food supply, and I'm pretty sure that there is a nice ammo depot, lots of body armor, some vehicles (with a likely supply of gas) - all of those were in the books, which made it a very attractive place in addition to it being a pretty safe haven

[Plasmatopia]

I'll give them the benefit of the doubt - we don't know how much time has elapsed since they found the prison, it's a huge area to cover, and as long as they have one area/wing block secured (and access to the infirmary and cafeteria), what more do they need? Had all of the other stuff not come up - Tomas freaking out, Lori dying, Glen and Maggie being kidnapped - they may have spent more time clearing out the prison completely, but we really don't want to see four or five episodes of them walking around clearing the prison out with no real advancement of the story.

Yes, that makes sense of course, but as you said - it's hard to know how much time is passing and obviously they were dealing with a lot. I would just have expected them to check out the fence within the first couple of days. We wouldn't need to witness them doing it, it could be mentioned in passing that it was done. Another solution might have been to make the hole in the fence a bit less gaping and obvious. The new group could have ran along the fence searching for an entry point and found a less obvious spot where they could squeeze under. It would have been more believable. But of course the gaping hole could play an important part later on. Maybe I'd feel better about the (w)hole thing if they had earlier made a more direct reference to the fact that they'd only explored a fraction of the compound.

[Hal...]

Maybe I'd feel better about the (w)hole thing if they had earlier made a more direct reference to the fact that they'd only explored a fraction of the compound.That was what I assumed based on comments made by Rick, et al, when they first took refuge in the prison. They purposely only cleared out a section large enough for them and left the majority of the prison as is. It follows, then, that they hadn't explored the rest of it.

[polmico]

I still can't believe that glass shard in the eye wasn't banged in a little deeper.

He's still got his dick. He's faring better than he did in the comics.

[The Red Masque]

I only have the first book of the graphic novel, which I enjoyed. Is the rest of the graphic novel series worth getting?

[polmico]

Yes. I'm around issue 75 or so. The second compendium has been released. It collects 51-99 (I think). Amazon has both compendiums listed for about 35 bucks.

[Hal...]

I asked this question of a friend who, I think, thought I was being a smart ass. But my question is genuine:

What's the difference between a comic and a graphic novel?

[Brad to the Bone]

I only have the first book of the graphic novel, which I enjoyed. Is the rest of the graphic novel series worth getting?


Yes, I started reading it about 5 years ago and got quickly hooked.

[Brad to the Bone]

What's the difference between a comic and a graphic novel?

"Graphic novel" was originally a marketing term coined by Marvel to describe a series of deluxe, oversized, squarebound one-shots.

It has since been used generically to describe any such squarebound comic, regardless of whether it contains an original story or collects and reprints multiple issues of standard monthly comics.

[dropforge]

"Graphic novel" was originally a marketing term coined by Marvel to describe a series of deluxe, oversized, squarebound one-shots.

It has since been used generically to describe any such squarebound comic, regardless of whether it contains an original story or collects and reprints multiple issues of standard monthly comics.

A graphic novel consists of original content and is marketed as a standalone all-in-one visual narrative.

A softcover or hardcover that collects previously published material (reprints) is an omnibus (this usually collects material tied together by a storyline or theme, or collects sequential runs), compendium, trade collection, etc.

When Amazon uses "Graphic Novel" to classify anything comics-oriented with a squarebound spine as such, it's to cross-promote and little else.

[silverdy357]

Wow...the last episode...I'm not sure I can even wait until February for it to continue! Definitely going to check out the novel after the praise it has gotten on here.

[jeffo621]

This may just be me getting semantic and assigning a term, but I figured that "graphic novel" tended to be a term used by people that felt that "comic" either implied that it was humorous or intended for children. I think some of the other definitions that have been given are far more accurate. I refer to the Walking Dead as both, but I'm sure it falls more under the definition of a comic book.

[polmico]

Yes. Definitely a comic book, especially given that Image and Kirkman are still putting out a monthly. A bound collection of monthlies should properly be referred to as a trade paperback. Something like Maus is truly a graphic novel. It was never sold as anything but a book (as opposed to monthly 22 page installments).

[Hal...]

"Graphic novel" was originally a marketing term coined by Marvel to describe a series of deluxe, oversized, squarebound one-shots.

A graphic novel consists of original content and is marketed as a standalone all-in-one visual narrative.

Okay, that's what I assumed simply based on the words used: "graphic" and "novel". I guess what confused me was how people started using the words either interchangeably or incorrectly.

[The Red Masque]

sorry, didn't realize the correct term
I've only ever seen the bound book form of Walking dead (and didn't even know it came out as monthly, as I don't really follow a lot of comics or the comic genre in general). I do like some graphic novels (like Persepolis) and also some comics, but am no expert on what the correct terms are. Anyway, whatever they are called, I enjoyed the first book / compilation of Walking Dead. I may have to pick up some more at some point.

[Hal...]

Do you watch the show, Lynnette? I think it took some time for the writers/producers to find their footing, but this season has been really good.

Speaking of which, I - and some others here - have commented before how the 2nd season was often disappointing. Talking with my niece, recently, who watched the first two seasons on Netflix in less than a week, she said watching season 2 in just a couple of days really made a difference. She liked S2 better than S1.

[Plasmatopia]

...she said watching season 2 in just a couple of days really made a difference.

Sometimes that can make a huge difference. In the exact opposite case, my wife and I watched most of "Lost" like that (over a couple of weeks though) and after the second season I couldn't stomach it any longer. I was left with a feeling that I would have enjoyed it more on the one-episode-per-week basis. Certain lame plot devices would have been more well "hidden" (or more likely to have been forgotten by me) but instead became painfully obvious.

[The Red Masque]

yeah I definitely watch the show and am really into it.

[jeffo621]

RE: Graphic novel vs Comic Book

I noticed on the opening credits that it says: "Based on the Graphic Novel by Robert Kirkman (et al)"

Now, to me it's pretty clear it's a comic, but I wonder if they chose to call it a graphic novel because it sounds more "grown up."

Whatever you call it, it's the first time in my life that I've read a comic, so it'd definitely gotten my attention.

- Jeff

[polmico]

Whatever you call it, it's the first time in my life that I've read a comic, so it'd definitely gotten my attention.

- Jeff

Not sure if you're interested in exploring more, but there are quite a few really good series going on, some of which are now in trades. Saga is a great sci-fi epic that's just getting going. The Manhattan Projects is a twisted, psychology mess that gives an alternate history to the dawn of America's nuclear era. The New Deadwardians was an interesting zombie/vampire mash-up. And if someone doesn't have plans to make American Vampire into a tv show or movie or something, then the world is stupidier than I thought.

[Hal...]

I loved the way Andrea got Philip trapped in the warehouse w/all the zombies. What I hated was the clichéd way in which he came "back from the dead" and captured her. That said, the ending made for a WTF moment.

[hippypants]

I didn't think the way Phillip came back was a cliche at all, I thought it was rather unexpected and surprised me.

This weeks ep. ended well, I sort of wondered how Merle was going to work out for the group. Next week's showdown should be good too. I think this season is the best one yet, and again I'll hate to see it go, but at least Mad Men will be starting up. For a few of the episodes I thought the walkers weren't quite the threat or were a bit on the weak side, but I know it was to further the story along.

[scags]

I thought it was great. Instead of doing the expected, and dumping Michonne in front of the gov, we got a zombie parade, and ambush, and a zombie Merle. I hope they end the season on a similar high note.

[Jerjo]

Love the Zombie parade. Let's all march to the sounds of Motorhead!

[Hal...]

I didn't think the way Phillip came back was a cliche at all...

Really? It was straight out of Friday the 13th, without the music:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kL_ZFjN61DY

[Hal...]

Which, btw, was a rip-off of Halloween:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1BG0IYnCS0


What's clichéd about it is the audience is led to believe that the heroine is safe and the villain dead, except that he's not really.

[scags]

For what it's worth, I didn't think the gov was dead, but I also didn't think he was outside the the prison.

[JKL2000]

Watched Sunday's (3/24) episode last night. I thought it was the best one of the season - one of the best overall. Lots of great zombie action, and some really interesting developments.

[Plasmatopia]

Yes, I have to agree. Pretty intense. I am already predicting Darryl's reaction to the events...but I hope I'm wrong about that. Next week will be interesting for sure.

[Jerjo]

My wife is posting this on Facebook:

1310

[Hal...]

That's really funny, Jerol.

[progholio]

i gotta say i was a little dissapointed with the how the whole thing went down with Merle and the G'vner, since he was the Guv's chief enforcer at one point he should of done a lot more damage in Woodbury than he did. oh well, the use of Motorhead and Nuge along with Darryl's encounter with him at the end will be some of the highlights of the series.

[Jerjo]

wow...I did not see that particular death coming.

[nosebone]

Oh well......, see you in seven months.

[polmico]

I really thought they were going to try and wrap up the Governor storyline this season.

Funny thing is, not a lot happens in the comics between the Governor and the next big storyline I was really looking forward to where the show was going next, but I guess we'll have to wait.

[Jerjo]

Now, the way it looked to me, that Woodbury kid wasn't putting down his gun and was a likely threat to Carl and Herschel. Apparently Herschel didn't see it that way.

[Joe F.]

^^^

Yeah. I thought the kid was going to make a grab for Carl's gun.

I also figure the Gov will be toast by the mid-season break.

[scags]

Was it me, or were there more commercials than usual last night? I usually watch it later, and zip them, but it was driving me crazy. I think the Carl thing was ambiguous - if the guy dropped the gun, it would have been clear, but he didn't. I also think they left too many loose ends considering it was the season end, and there wasn't any set up for next year, except for the Guv and his army of two. (Andre should have spent more time in Yoga class)

[Hal...]

I had a similar reaction to Carl, though I was leaning toward him being a bit cold about it. But once he explained it to his dad I thought, "wow. That makes way too much sense."

Was kinda bummed to see Andrea die. I found the whole subplot with her staying in Woodbury a bit frustrating. Still, Philip stabbing Milton and then locking him in w/Andrea was a nicely evil way of getting rid of them both. Seriously thought Tyrese was going to come to her rescue, tho.

Didn't anticipate Philip going off the deep end the way that he did. That was a nice twist. What bothered me though - and this has been my criticism with the writers from the beginning - was Allen (father of the kid that Carl shot) not putting a few rounds through Philip's head while he already had his gun pointed at him. That was a bit of an eye-roll moment. Obviously, Philip has completely lost the plot when he opens fire on his own people, so for no one to put him down was stupid. There is a way to have your cake and eat it, too, if you have good enough writers, which TWD doesn't seem to.

[polmico]

I'm not sure the writers were trying to make the Carl thing ambiguous, especially not with Herschel there and presenting it the way he did to Rick.

The comparison between Carl and the governor is obvious, though. Rick sees that happening to Carl, sees what he's becoming and realizes that he's fucked up.

The show (and the book) is about finding and keeping your humanity in spite of all reasons not to. Carl is losing his; the governor has lost his. Poignantly, Carl looked at the photo of his family and put it back up seemingly in disgust (or least in a hurry and without emotion). He is trying to bury his emotions.

Remember what Rick said (I think it was in the book but it might have been in the show, too): "We are the walking dead."

[Jerjo]

Here's an amusing tirade about the frustration with plot holes and lazy writing on the show

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/x-most-frustrating-things-about-the-walking-dead

[sotdude]

Was it me, or were there more commercials than usual last night? I usually watch it later, and zip them, but it was driving me crazy. I think the Carl thing was ambiguous - if the guy dropped the gun, it would have been clear, but he didn't. I also think they left too many loose ends considering it was the season end, and there wasn't any set up for next year, except for the Guv and his army of two. (Andre should have spent more time in Yoga class)

I've noticed that the last few episodes. Seems like 35 minutes of actual show, 25 minutes commercials. Way too much if you ask me.

[Plasmatopia]

I might have to stop reading this thread. I thought they left it pretty ambiguous with Carl. I like not knowing and having a bit of mystery about what might (or might not) be coming in future episodes.

[Hal...]

Here's an amusing tirade about the frustration with plot holes and lazy writing on the show
#32 is hilarious!

But, yeah, the show could use some better writers. That said, I think they do a pretty good job, mostly.

[Jerjo]

new photo of the cast:

http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/webdr03/2013/4/2/17/enhanced-buzz-wide-6337-1364938883-16.jpg

[Hal...]

How hot does Maggie look in black w/the boots & the gun on her hip?

[Facelift]

Didn't anticipate Philip going off the deep end the way that he did. That was a nice twist. What bothered me though - and this has been my criticism with the writers from the beginning - was Allen (father of the kid that Carl shot) not putting a few rounds through Philip's head while he already had his gun pointed at him. That was a bit of an eye-roll moment. Obviously, Philip has completely lost the plot when he opens fire on his own people, so for no one to put him down was stupid. There is a way to have your cake and eat it, too, if you have good enough writers, which TWD doesn't seem to.

Yeah. The writing on the show is not great. The acting leaves much to be desired as well. They must be doing something right, though, since I keep watching it, and I don't even particularly care for the violence.

As The Most Annoying Character in the History of Television, I was very happy to see Andrea gone. It was getting to the point where I was wondering if the writers were just trying to top themselves each week coming up with implausibly stupid things for her to do. Whoever decided to have her stop trying to free herself for a few minutes so she could really devote her full attention on the dying (and thus, soon-to-be-zombie) man locked in the room with her, may have won.

For a more detailed take on why this show is so fun to watch despite the bad writing and bad acting, check out this Bill Simmons piece:

http://www.grantland.com/blog/hollywood-prospectus/post/_/id/71945/the-walking-dead-gives-em-what-they-want

[nosebone]

Thanks for sharing that link.

I agree the number 1 reason most people watch the show is for the zombie kills.

And after season 3, I've come to the conclusion it's a very good bad show!

[polmico]

Nice interview with Kirkman regarding season 3:

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/04/02/the-walking-dead-kirkman-talks-season-3-finale-teases-season-4

"Rick has had a success. . . . But he’s had this tremendous loss in that Carl has lost this piece of his humanity. This has been Rick’s main mission throughout the show, to protect his family. We’ve seen two very big failures on that front this season.

"Moving into next season, we’re going to see a very different Rick, but one of his main goals is to manage this situation with Carl and see if he can bring him back from this darkness that’s crept into him."

Sounds like Carl/Rick is going to be a big focus next season.

[polmico]

I might have to stop reading this thread. I thought they left it pretty ambiguous with Carl. I like not knowing and having a bit of mystery about what might (or might not) be coming in future episodes.

The comics have deviated significantly from the show, that what Kirkman's been doing and is doing there doesn't really play out in the show anymore. In the book, the Governor attacked the prison, killed Lori and the baby (quite graphically, too) in the attack and Rick and everyone left alive were forced to go on the lam. There are touchstones to the book, but just the fact that Rick in still in the prison is a significant departure.

Oh. Rick and Andrea are "dating" in the book. Doesn't look like that's going to happen in the show any time soon. :)

[polmico]

For a more detailed take on why this show is so fun to watch despite the bad writing and bad acting, check out this Bill Simmons piece:

http://www.grantland.com/blog/hollywood-prospectus/post/_/id/71945/the-walking-dead-gives-em-what-they-want

I now understand snark! Thank you, Bill Simmons! (Wait a second. That was sort of snarky, wasn't it. Shit. I'm no better . . . )

[Plasmatopia]

The comics have deviated significantly from the show, that what Kirkman's been doing and is doing there doesn't really play out in the show anymore. In the book, the Governor attacked the prison, killed Lori and the baby (quite graphically, too) in the attack and Rick and everyone left alive were forced to go on the lam. There are touchstones to the book, but just the fact that Rick in still in the prison is a significant departure.

Oh. Rick and Andrea are "dating" in the book. Doesn't look like that's going to happen in the show any time soon. :)

Good to know - thanks! It seems pretty much anything is possible now...

[Jerjo]

Maggie..in tights...:up

[Paulie]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jR4lLJu_-wE

LMFAO! Stay tuned til the end. I literally had tears streaming down my face I was laughing so hard! Brilliant stuff!

[Jerjo]

BBC-America's new zombie series In the Flesh debuts tonight. Not as gory as WD but a bit more cerebral. I'll give it a shot.

[SteveSly]

I am new to this thread. My wife and I just finished season 1 and 2 DVD and I have to admit I am hooked. Season one was good. Season 2 started out kind of slow, but the last 3rd of it really picked up and got me addicted. Looking forward to season 3 coming out on DVD and watching it live next season. Like all Zombie fiction there are some plot holes that you have to forgive, but overall I think the writing is very good. The acting is decent. I don’t really see any Emmy performances here, but they do a pretty good job. Anyway, I am now a “Dead” addict and will be joining the thread.

Steve Sly

[Jerjo]

Season 3 is an upgrade from Season 2. You've got a lot to look forward to Steve

We're two episodes in on BBC-America's In the Flesh. Not nearly as gory (but not without gore) as Walking Dead but damn, it is smart. The zombies are being "cured" and reintegrated into society. Lots of subtext on society's treatment of minorities and a bit more humor than WD. I can't predict where it is going and that's a good thing.

[SteveSly]

AMC did a “Walking Dead” marathon over the weekend and I DVR’d season 3 (had only seen the first 2 seasons). I watched the first 6 episodes yesterday and have to say that so far this is the best season yet by far. I am not familiar with the comic, so have not seen anything coming, especially the deaths of some of the main characters. Going to try to watch the rest of the season this week if time permits. When you cut out the commercials they are only 40 minutes long, so can be flown through fairly quickly.

Steve Sly

[Jerjo]

Ready to roll again?

http://www.avclub.com/articles/the-walking-dead,100513/

This looks INTENSE!

[polmico]

Kirkman said at Comic Con that the show is going to start following the comic more.

[BobM]

Looks like they're going to be reaching the breaking point for the prison and will be going back on the road again. Maybe teaming up with another group of people, since it takes more people to keep ahead of the zombie hoard and they're not replenishing their group when some die.

Never read the comic.

[Hal...]

Click the picture for a larger image:

2516

[Hal...]

Anyone see last night's episode?

[Jerjo]

A decent episode. They set the table for the season: Carl is a little psychopath, the Council is in control now, Carol is teaching the kids self defense against Rick's wishes, Michone is on the hunt for the Gov, Rick sees a reminder that the loss of humanity and reason can happen to anyone, and a disease is stalking them. And Glen is a lucky bastard in many respects.

The show still needs a little more humor. C'mon, it's a zombie show. Many humans deal with horrendous shit with graveyard humor and it's missing in the prison.

[nosebone]

I liked last nights episode.

Really dark n' mean!

Can anybody tell me where that nerdy kid from Everybody Hates Chris came from?

[Hal...]

At first, I assumed he came with the rest of the people from Woodbury. But then, later, somebody commented how Rick keeps bringing people in, so he could have come from anywhere.

[scags]

The " Zombie Rain" thing was cool, along with the token Irish woman.

[JKL2000]

Click the picture for a larger image:

2516

If I was promised that, I'd PRAY for a zombie holocaust.

[JKL2000]

A decent episode. They set the table for the season: Carl is a little psychopath, the Council is in control now, Carol is teaching the kids self defense against Rick's wishes, Michone is on the hunt for the Gov, Rick sees a reminder that the loss of humanity and reason can happen to anyone, and a disease is stalking them. And Glen is a lucky bastard in many respects.

And Tyrese is a pussy!

Hey, the blonde chick whose dude died - is that the Doc's daughter? I couldn't tell somehow.

And the black dude caught under the winerack - so his deal is he's a recovering alcoholic? Come on, it's a zombie holocaust - drink up!

[nosebone]

And the black dude caught under the winerack - so his deal is he's a recovering alcoholic? Come on, it's a zombie holocaust - drink up!

:lol I'd be looking for morphine!

[scags]

bad news / good news- Zombie nightmare- spending it in the liquor store. No AA meetings anymore.

[Jerjo]

I am disappointed that Violet the pig didn't go zombie

[BobM]

I am disappointed that Violet the pig didn't go zombie

Yeah, I was really waiting for that. The outbreak of a plague was not expected.

[JKL2000]

IMO the "plague" idea is kind of boring. Bring on the zombies - we don't need another plague, we already have one. But I guess we can see what they do with it.

[Just Eric]

Swine Flu???

The interesting aspect is the dead turning, within the sanctuary of the prison. They will have to put together a death watch for these cases. Brings a whole new meaning to "I'm not quite (un)dead yet."

[BobM]

Still, it would have been cool to see a zombie pig.

[Jerjo]

Didn't we once have a zombie cow? I seem to remember something about a cow.

[nosebone]

Zombie baby in Dawn II.

[dropforge]

Zombie baby in Dawn II.

You mean the remake.

[JKL2000]

The interesting aspect is the dead turning, within the sanctuary of the prison.

That's true! Zombie Daryl! Zombie Daryl! Zombie Daryl!

[BobM]

I want to see a Zombie Carl. Not liking the kid anymore.

[Just Eric]

Can we combine Walking Dead threads??? I'm getting confused ...

[Hal...]

There's more than 1?

[Joe F.]

Swine Flu???

The interesting aspect is the dead turning, within the sanctuary of the prison.

How so?

Everyone is already infected. If you die behind the prison walls you're going to turn unless they "whack" you in the head. ;) If someone dies in their sleep, they're going turn before anyone is up.

[Just Eric]

The interesting part is those who die, in their sleep, off in a corner, without anyone else around. You could be walking around perfectly safe prison zones and BLAMMO, someone who died earlier in the day turns the corner and CHOMP!

[Joe F.]

The interesting part is those who die, in their sleep, off in a corner, without anyone else around. You could be walking around perfectly safe prison zones and BLAMMO, someone who died earlier in the day turns the corner and CHOMP!

The interesting part is that they don't seem to have taken that into account! :)

Herschal's not exactly a young man. I'd lock him up every night, just in case. ;)

[nosebone]

They should all sleep in their own cell.

[JKL2000]

It'd be funny if that kid who died in the season opener didn't know he was going to die until he got to that part in the script. "Whoo-hoo! I'm a new character in The Walking Dead... WTF?"

Yeah, the other thread could just be axed. I'm only using this one.

[Klonk]

Looks like the zombie shit's about to hit the fan...

[JKL2000]

Click the picture for a larger image:

2516

Just stopped by to look at this picture again. She has that wonderful "just been hit over the head" yet her nipples are erect kind of look. Sort of like Susan Dey...

[Just Eric]

Loved this weeks episode and it's solid dose of reality. More than any other show/movie in the Zombie genre, TWD gets it with how disparaging the aftermath of the event could be and doesn't hesitate to "pile on" with dreadful scenarios. Because of the willingness to put their characters through so much we get to learn more about them and that is why this show is special.

Now, completely different topic, but I'd love if they did a one-off episode of zombie POV. It could be POV from the human "victim" at the time of attack, screen goes black representing "death" then the eyes open representing zombie rebirth. We could then have a day in the life of a zombie.

[JKL2000]

Now, completely different topic, but I'd love if they did a one-off episode of zombie POV. It could be POV from the human "victim" at the time of attack, screen goes black representing "death" then the eyes open representing zombie rebirth. We could then have a day in the life of a zombie.

Not sure I'd like a full episode of zombie-POV, but a few minutes could be interesting (I never cared for those one-off episodes of a series where things were really different). I thought that scene of this week's episode was cool, where Carl and Herschel saw those two walkers in the woods but weren't overly scared by them (well, one walking, one slumped down). Those are my favorite kinds of scenes - when the walkers are more inert or slow, they're the scariest somehow.

I was kind of disappointed how in the first episode this season we didn't get to see Irish woman's zombie friend who was in the tent but immobile. That could have been cool.

Zombies - they never get old.

[Jerjo]

Anyone else think the change in Carol is a little poorly written? The actor is doing fine but it still seemed they didn't do enough leading up to it.

I want Tyrese to have my back in the zombie apocalypse.

[Hal...]

So, from where is this mysterious "flu" coming? I was thinking the water, but surely they'd boil their water before using it. The antibiotics they're trying to find are useful only against bacteria, not viruses, so is the epidemic bacterial? If not, those sick are probably gonna die, unless their immune systems can overcome the infection. Or could it be that the zombie virus mutated?


Anyone else think the change in Carol is a little poorly written?
It certainly seems kinda sudden, but then some amount of time has passed between last season and this, so I chalked it up to that.


I want Tyrese to have my back in the zombie apocalypse.
Yeah, his sudden exit from the woods when he'd been surrounded by zombies not a minute before shows how much he must have been kicking ass with that hammer.

Michonne - and her kitana - would be my choice.

[Paulie]

Anyone watch Talking Dead? Marylyn Manson was a train wreck. :lol Never been a fan, but I was looking forward to the episode as I've always thought he was quite well spoken (Bowling for Columbine, Stern, etc). Whether it be alcohol or something heavier, he was certainly trashed on something.

[Jerjo]

I watched Talking Dead and yeah, he was wretched. I suspect X)

[Facelift]

Anyone else think the change in Carol is a little poorly written? The actor is doing fine but it still seemed they didn't do enough leading up to it.

I want Tyrese to have my back in the zombie apocalypse.

The writing (to say nothing of the acting) are not exactly this show's strengths. That said, they do a good job with the look and feel - and, of course, killing zombies. That's why I watch it. Though I'm not finding the swine flu to be as menacing a villain as The Governor, cheesey as he was.

[scags]

Well, they have a lot more people to die off, but they're down to five( I believe) survivors from season 1.

[Klonk]

Anyone watch Talking Dead? Marylyn Manson was a train wreck. :lol Never been a fan, but I was looking forward to the episode as I've always thought he was quite well spoken (Bowling for Columbine, Stern, etc). Whether it be alcohol or something heavier, he was certainly trashed on something.

:lol yeah I watched that. Every time he opened his mouth it was uncomfortable.

[dropforge]

Now, completely different topic, but I'd love if they did a one-off episode of zombie POV. It could be POV from the human "victim" at the time of attack, screen goes black representing "death" then the eyes open representing zombie rebirth. We could then have a day in the life of a zombie.

We got a bit of that when Shane turned. I wouldn't expect any detours from the storyline anytime soon. Maybe the second series starting in 2015 will explore that.

20 years ago, a very good zombie-PoV novel was published, titled Wet Work. It was written by Philip Nutman, who just died last month. He was ahead of the curve with regard to zombie fiction.

[JKL2000]

Anyone seen Juan of the Dead, which is a Spanish-Cuban version of Shaun of the Dead? Very funny, and different enough from SotD that's it's well worth seeing.

[Just Eric]

Anyone seen Juan of the Dead, which is a Spanish-Cuban version of Shaun of the Dead? Very funny, and different enough from SotD that's it's well worth seeing.Loved that movie, although I felt it got a little far-fetched near the end. The characters were great.

[dropforge]

Anyone seen Juan of the Dead, which is a Spanish-Cuban version of Shaun of the Dead? Very funny, and different enough from SotD that's it's well worth seeing.

Totally different. We're expected to believe the protagonist beds superhot babes. And SotD didn't show Shaun's best friend beating off against a wall. :rofl

[Brave73]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/q71/1395226_10153409264300371_1197236794_n.jpg

[Hal...]

:lol That's hilarious!


I gotta say, I was kinda bummed at the way Rick reacted. And then, sending Carol off on her own??? Am not liking this little plot twist.

[JKL2000]

:lol That's hilarious!


I gotta say, I was kinda bummed at the way Rick reacted. And then, sending Carol off on her own??? Am not liking this little plot twist.

That picture or whatever it is is blocked to me at work - can you post a different link maybe?

Yeah, not crazy about Rick sending Carol off on her own. Isn't Daryl going to sort of freak out when he finds out Rick did this?

[Just Eric]

Do you think Carol will stay in the picture through an alternate storyline? Maybe she hooks up with the Governor.

[Klonk]

Whatever direction Rick chose to go with Carol would have been ugly. She did murder two people after all. Rick probably saved her life though because Tyrese would kill her when he found out, no? I like Carol's character so in that respect I'm bummed, but she'll be back. Very curious what happens when it's revealed.

[Hal...]

2772

[hippypants]

Well, Carole did kill two people, but Rick has also killed people for the greater good of the group, so I don't see any difference myself. I thought he made a bad decision in making her go away, to me, just saying--ok, c ya, you'll get by ok, was a bit delusional. Plus yes, maybe, Tyrese might have been pissed, but only IF Rick said anything. It seemed he was the only one that knew, and it did seem to be a logical way of handling the flu problem from spreading (for the greater good). Also Rick's own son killed the other boy for seemingly little to no reason--I missed this episode--why did he kill him? At any rate, Rick's reasons seemed a bit pious in letting her go, and if that situation were true wouldn't you want every healthy human around to fight off zombies if it came down to that? I too thought Carole might find the Gov. out here somewhere. We'll see. Still a compelling watch.

[JKL2000]

2772

LOL!!

[JKL2000]

He should have killed Tyrese instead. Tyrese is a loose cannon.

Actually, I found Carole to be depressing, so I kind of hope she's out of the story now. Or maybe Daryl will go out looking for her.

[BobM]

Now there's only 4 original cast members from season one in the group. If Darryl goes out looking for her it leaves 3.

[Brave73]

2777

https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/969362_1403622779874983_1561771313_n.png

[Hal...]

Now there's only 4 original cast members from season one in the group.
Is the graphic novel the same in the sense that people come and go? I think with most characters I didn't mind if they left or died. But I've grown to like Carol.

Funny picture.

[polmico]

Yeah. Lots of death in the comics. If I gave a number (still alive in comic, still on show) there'd prolly be some easy guessing. I'll say this: Andrea is still alive in the comic, and she's a bad ass. I don't know why Kirkman neutered her for the show.

[Jerjo]

[accompanied by a slow hand clap]

Herschel...Herschel...Herschel

[Klonk]

That episode last night was fantastic!

[Hal...]

Agreed.

The biggest question now is will Glenn be saved by the antibiotics?

[Just Eric]

I think Glen was saved, right? All the affected seemed to be healthier.

Agree with Scott, last night's episode was fantastic. Action in multiple arenas stretching the survivors thin and Hershel be the man! PLUS, the Guvnor coming back.

[Hal...]

Glenn was saved only from dying last night. They didn't show anyone administering any drugs, did they? So, he could still get worse.

[Just Eric]

Glenn was saved only from dying last night. They didn't show anyone administering any drugs, did they? So, he could still get worse.They did show them mixing the medicine and administering through the IV. At least I thought they did, I could very well have dreamt that part.

[Hal...]

Huh. I thought they were just giving him fluids, like Sasha.

I'll go watch that part again.

[Brave73]

[accompanied by a slow hand clap]

Herschel...Herschel...Herschel

Truly Scott Wilson's finest performance on the show so far. However, those last 5 seconds (with the Governor appearance) made my night.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/580789_10151785668517469_1316549345_n.jpg

[Facelift]

They did show them mixing the medicine and administering through the IV. At least I thought they did, I could very well have dreamt that part.

Regulars don't die until the last or second to last episodes of a season. I don't think Glen has much to worry about for a number of weeks yet.

[hippypants]

I wonder if Carol is going to appear out of one of the Gov's tents?

[scags]

They don't make axes like they used to. Good episode, and a lot of set ups for the next one, including Rick's talk with Daryll.

[JKL2000]

"Papa, nobody likes a skinny Santa!"
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20131021215760/walkingdead/images/e/ec/Season_four_hershel_greene.png

[Jerjo]

So, they sent the Governor on a Forest Gump mission to find himself and then turn back into the Governor as a way to burn up two episodes just so he could attack the prison again? I think the writers room must be running out of gas. Why did Martinez not put a bullet in his brain as soon as he saw him in the pit? They tried to rationalize it on the Talking Dead but sheesh, this show is back to relying on characters making bad decisions. Nonetheless, some great zombie deaths. I liked the Gov recreating his aquarium with the pond.

[nosebone]

So, they sent the Governor on a Forest Gump mission to find himself and then turn back into the Governor as a way to burn up two episodes just so he could attack the prison again? I think the writers room must be running out of gas. Why did Martinez not put a bullet in his brain as soon as he saw him in the pit? They tried to rationalize it on the Talking Dead but sheesh, this show is back to relying on characters making bad decisions. Nonetheless, some great zombie deaths. I liked the Gov recreating his aquarium with the pond.

Yeah, I agree.

Like I said before TWD is the best bad show on TV.

It makes no sense at all, yet it's still compelling.

[Facelift]

Yeah, I agree.

Like I said before TWD is the best bad show on TV.

It makes no sense at allm, yet it's still compelling.

QFT!

"Best bad show" is really saying it. I like how last night's actually tried to get kind of artsy, with the time shifting and all - yet it still reverted back to being everything that it usually is (and isn't).

[SteveSly]

Yeah, I agree.

Like I said before TWD is the best bad show on TV.

It makes no sense at allm, yet it's still compelling.

I would probably throw in “True Blood” as another one, but yea that is a great way to describe “Walking Dead”. Compared to shows like “Breaking Bad” the acting is not that good, the writing is not that good, and some of the plot lines are pretty thin, but like heroin I remain addicted……

Steve Sly

[Man In The Mountain]

I kind of liked the 2 Governor episodes so far, because I thought the flu thing was pretty lame. I'm glad it changed directions. THAT SAID, why bring back the governor so soon? I thought he would come back in season 5 or something. So far season 4 hasn't really been about anything specific, just a hodgepodge of story lines. Remember the strange lady in the season premier, where did that go? Nowhere. Now we have the governor back to take over the prison... seriously, we just did that!

I also agree about Martinez, it made no sense that he didn't shoot him in the pit.

Yes, it's awesome "B" television. I love when AMC shows little clips of the show, that are meant to showcase pivotal dramatic moments, and they come off so flat and unmemorable. :lol

[Man In The Mountain]

Well, Carole did kill two people
That hasn't really been proven. I have a theory that the little blond girl killed them, and Carol is protecting her. Remember, Carol was teaching the little girls how to kill zombies with a knife, and she didn't want anyone to know about it. So, imagine the one girl goes off and kills the 2 infected people thinking she's helping (or she's scared). Carol finds them dead and drags them out and burns them. Then the girl got sick because she was infected by the two people.

I think Carol is hiding this secret, that's why her excuses are so lame when Rick asks her why she killed them. Also, remember Carol getting really upset and kicking that canister while everyone was on the hunt for the killer. She's upset because she taught the girl how to kill. And now she's protecting her.

[SteveSly]

I kind of liked the 2 Governor episodes so far, because I thought the flu thing was pretty lame. I'm glad it changed directions. THAT SAID, why bring back the governor so soon? I thought he would come back in season 5 or something.
:lol

It may have been simply for contractual reasons. Bringing back the governor in season 5 would mean they would have to keep the actor (can’t remember his name off the top of my head) on some kind of retainer (in other words pay him) through all of season 4 to make sure he was available for season 5. If actors are not working, they move on to other projects. I agree it might have been better to bring him back later, but having an actor sit out an entire season is tough to do.

Steve Sly

[JKL2000]

I also agree about Martinez, it made no sense that he didn't shoot him in the pit.

Well, he explained in the show that it was because of the little girl and two women who were with him that he didn't just shoot the Governor. Also, didn't he say he was a priest before the zombie plague began?

We have the last two episodes to thank for now having two cute lesbians in the mix, so it's all good!

BTW, RE; the time shifting in the last episode, what was the deal with the scene when the Governor, the three chicks, and the girl escape in their car and encounter the mass of zombies stuck in the mud? When is that supposed to be? Still in the future, after where the episode ended? We could NOT figure out when that scene is supposed to be.

[Man In The Mountain]

Well, he explained in the show that it was because of the little girl and two women who were with him that he didn't just shoot the Governor. Also, didn't he say he was a priest before the zombie plague began?.
Maybe. But, then he started treating the Governor like his personal assistant, his golf caddy. At least chain the Governor up, then have him do the dishes.


BTW, RE; the time shifting in the last episode, what was the deal with the scene when the Governor, the three chicks, and the girl escape in their car and encounter the mass of zombies stuck in the mud? When is that supposed to be? Still in the future, after where the episode ended? We could NOT figure out when that scene is supposed to be.
Yeah, that was weird, and hard to make sense of. Was it a time shift? I thought he decided to leave, but found the road had turned into a zombie filled mud pit so they couldn't go any further. So, the next day he decided to kill the leaders of the group instead.

[JKL2000]

Maybe. But, then he started treating the Governor like his personal assistant, his golf caddy. At least chain the Governor up, then have him do the dishes.

Yeah, I agree it didn't make much sense to trust him.


Yeah, that was weird, and hard to make sense of. Was it a time shift? I thought he decided to leave, but found the road had turned into a zombie filled mud pit so they could go any further. So, the next day he decided to kill the leaders of the group instead.

That might have been it, but they should have shown them turning back or something. It was kind of like in a movie theater where they get the reels mixed up and you see them out of order!

[Facelift]

M

Yeah, that was weird, and hard to make sense of. Was it a time shift? I thought he decided to leave, but found the road had turned into a zombie filled mud pit so they could go any further. So, the next day he decided to kill the leaders of the group instead.

That's the way I saw it. I thought they were trying to show how any and all circumstances were conspiring against the Governor's plan to "escape his fate" or whatever. Want to leave in the middle of the night? When it's most dangerous? Maybe your car got stuck in the middle of the road and you thought it was a good idea to get out of the car and have a look around in the pitch darkness because you hear zombie snarlings? No, you're not getting bit. But you are going to be turned back the way you came, because there's a mudpool full of zombies blocking your path!

I was wondering what the mud-pool of zombies does during the 99.9999999% of the time when there *aren't* any people in cars trying to get around. Since they only get "activated" by loud noises and by the sights/smells of people, I guess they just hang out in there, basically inert.

Also, concerning the zombies, I don't like how they seem to become immortal and otherwise impervious to the effects of rot/decay as everyone/everything else - which is doubly concerning, since they're already dead. In that Brad Pitt movie, for example, I liked how they addressed the issue: the zombies don't have tremendously long lives on their own due to starvation/decay. But in the WD mythology, this doesn't happen. The zombie at the bottom of the lake, for example, should have had its skin fall off in fairly quick order, as an aquatic environment is no place for an aimated corpse. Yet, it looks like that thing is doing fine, and looks like it's going to be able to hang around for awhile. And there's the issue of how they continuously bite even after the head has been separated from the body - and even after most of the head has been removed from the jaw - there's no nervous system in place to regulate this behavior, and no muscle tissue to perform the task, even if the nervous system existed to request it.

[Klonk]

:lol wow...

[nosebone]

Also, concerning the zombies, I don't like how they seem to become immortal and otherwise impervious to the effects of rot/decay as everyone/everything else - which is doubly concerning, since they're already dead. In that Brad Pitt movie, for example, I liked how they addressed the issue: the zombies don't have tremendously long lives on their own due to starvation/decay. But in the WD mythology, this doesn't happen. The zombie at the bottom of the lake, for example, should have had its skin fall off in fairly quick order, as an aquatic environment is no place for an aimated corpse. Yet, it looks like that thing is doing fine, and looks like it's going to be able to hang around for awhile. And there's the issue of how they continuously bite even after the head has been separated from the body - and even after most of the head has been removed from the jaw - there's no nervous system in place to regulate this behavior, and no muscle tissue to perform the task, even if the nervous system existed to request it.

It's for reasons like this , that TWD is a bad show.

[Hal...]

It was kind of like in a movie theater where they get the reels mixed up and you see them out of order!
:lol Excellent analogy.

With regard to the Governor's actions, I thought they did a pretty good job of explaining him on The Talking Dead. IIRC, basically he can't escape who he is. It's his destiny. That's the reason for all the back and forth in his behavior: he wants to change but can't.

As for why Martinez didn't shoot him in the pit, WTF didn't what's-his-name shoot him last season after he slaughtered his own people?

I knew the moment, at the beginning of the episode when he's talking to the girl and the camera angle changed and showed them next to the tank, that something dramatic was going to happen. And then, of course, in the previews for the next episode they show him with the tank outside the prison fence – which also explains why he killed Martinez & Pete but not Mitch: Martinez wouldn't have gone along with his revenge fantasy against the prison; Pete was too soft (according to him); and he needs Mitch to drive the tank.

Now, you wanna talk about something fucking stupid... WTF didn't Mitch kill "One-eye Bri" the first chance he got to avenge his brother's murder??????


Also, concerning the zombies...
There is no plausible scientific explanation for the existence of zombies in the first place, so there's no point in even going down that road because arguing anything beyond "zombie's can't exist" is moot.

[Man In The Mountain]

I want to know why there are no fat Zombies in the Walking Dead? It's like all the Zombies just came from the health club and are hungry.

[hippypants]

Yeah, I think you just have to go with the flow--it's zombies so you have to have some suspension of disbelief or it's not going to work at all. I though the scene of the zombie mud pit was a bit nonlinear, but I think it was about the gov not being able to escape his fate--and he was doing so well. I guess it it shows he does care some, though the heart of a bastard still. :) So is next week the last for the season?

[Facelift]

There is no plausible scientific explanation for the existence of zombies in the first place, so there's no point in even going down that road because arguing anything beyond "zombie's can't exist" is moot.

Not true! Zombie(ism?) has been studied and some researches have said that the condition of being a zombie - a contagion that would destroy the nervous system and reduce people to lower-level functionings only, with a desire to attack or consume a particular thing, passed along by saliva or other bodily fluids is something that could plausibly occur, given our biology. It's the honing in on human flesh and turning into one as soon as you die (without direction contact with the contagion) that is just the product of zombie-myth.

[Hal...]

So is next week the last for the season?
No, it's the mid-season finale. But for the life of me, I can't find when the new episodes start in 2014. :roll


Not true! Zombie(ism?) has been studied and some researches have said that the condition of being a zombie - a contagion that would destroy the nervous system and reduce people to lower-level functionings only, with a desire to attack or consume a particular thing, passed along by saliva or other bodily fluids is something that could plausibly occur, given our biology. It's the honing in on human flesh and turning into one as soon as you die (without direction contact with the contagion) that is just the product of zombie-myth.
In a way, you're talking about two different things. Yes, I guess it's true that people could be infected by a virus or bacteria that would give the impression the infected are zombies, but they're not actual zombies, the mythology of which is what we've seen in most movies.

In addition to your last sentence, a standard element of zombie-ism that is most obviously impossible: having to destroy their brain to kill them. Anyone who's taken Physiology 101 can attest to that. The body is a complicated "machine", with interconnected processes, that requires oxygen & other chemicals to function; chiefly, sodium & potassium in the brain and, from what I recall, calcium in the muscles. Blood is the primary transport through which those chemicals are delivered. If you remove the lungs, you stop the process by which oxygen is delivered to the blood. If you remove the heart, you stop the process by which the blood is pumped, which delivers oxygen to the various parts of the body, and the brain cannot function without oxygen for more than approximately 6 minutes. So, anything that disrupts the flow of oxygen to the brain will kill anyone, regardless of their state.

But zombies that are easy to kill aren't as scary.

[Man In The Mountain]

Zombies are as ridiculous as ghosts. The idea that a spirit of someone who died can move objects, rattle chains, appear in visions (with clothing on), talk, moan, or even possess someone, is pure loony.

Now, Dracula & The Wolf Man.... now we're talking real possibilities! :lol

[Facelift]

No, it's the mid-season finale. But for the life of me, I can't find when the new episodes start in 2014. :roll


In a way, you're talking about two different things. Yes, I guess it's true that people could be infected by a virus or bacteria that would give the impression the infected are zombies, but they're not actual zombies, the mythology of which is what we've seen in most movies.

In addition to your last sentence, a standard element of zombie-ism that is most obviously impossible: having to destroy their brain to kill them. Anyone who's taken Physiology 101 can attest to that. The body is a complicated "machine", with interconnected processes, that requires oxygen & other chemicals to function; chiefly, sodium & potassium in the brain and, from what I recall, calcium in the muscles. Blood is the primary transport through which those chemicals are delivered. If you remove the lungs, you stop the process by which oxygen is delivered to the blood. If you remove the heart, you stop the process by which the blood is pumped, which delivers oxygen to the various parts of the body, and the brain cannot function without oxygen for more than approximately 6 minutes. So, anything that disrupts the flow of oxygen to the brain will kill anyone, regardless of their state.

But zombies that are easy to kill aren't as scary.

The attempt to make it real is one reason why I liked the 28 Days Later movies. They were zombie-like, but they weren't re-animated corpses - they were people with a rage virus.

[JKL2000]

I knew the moment, at the beginning of the episode when he's talking to the girl and the camera angle changed and showed them next to the tank, that something dramatic was going to happen.

I thought that this scene was another time shift to after the Governor has killed everyone else in the group because it seemed SO quiet and secluded. Like he killed them all, and it's just them left with the tank and a trailer.

[Just Eric]

I like the Governor coming back in S4, but think they could have held off on the attack until S5. Why not run two storylines, the Governor in one and Rick's group in the other. At some point a larger or multiple connected groups needs to happen.

[Just Eric]

I want to know why there are no fat Zombies in the Walking Dead? It's like all the Zombies just came from the health club and are hungry.
Fat zombies??? Why aren't there any hot naked chick zombies?!?


Second part of Season 4 starts February 2014.

[SteveSly]

The attempt to make it real is one reason why I liked the 28 Days Later movies. They were zombie-like, but they weren't re-animated corpses - they were people with a rage virus.

I would agree. From a logic standpoint “28 Days Later” was one of the best thought out zombie flicks of all time. “Walking Dead”……..not so much……..

Steve Sly

[dropforge]

I want to know why there are no fat Zombies in the Walking Dead? It's like all the Zombies just came from the health club and are hungry.

No bacteria in the gut to synthesize all those nutrients. Their assholes are like toilet flappers. That'd be the main reason to keep your settlement very well hidden. :lol

[nosebone]

Good cheezy mid season finale!

[Jerjo]

The last 20 minutes were awesome - the previous 40 were mostly filler. "Hey Daryl, I just kicked Carol out of the group." "Oh cool, let's go tell Tyrese." Bad writers, no cookies for you. And man, the Gov still attacks a fortified position with hardly any plan again and expects a different result?

But the action was great. Zombies all over the place, tank blowin' up shit. fun stuff after the angst of major character death.

Oh, and nice ass shot of Maggie.

[SteveSly]

Great episode, and nice end to the first half.

Steve Sly

[Adm.Kirk]

Also, concerning the zombies, I don't like how they seem to become immortal and otherwise impervious to the effects of rot/decay as everyone/everything else - which is doubly concerning, since they're already dead. In that Brad Pitt movie, for example, I liked how they addressed the issue: the zombies don't have tremendously long lives on their own due to starvation/decay. But in the WD mythology, this doesn't happen. The zombie at the bottom of the lake, for example, should have had its skin fall off in fairly quick order, as an aquatic environment is no place for an aimated corpse. Yet, it looks like that thing is doing fine, and looks like it's going to be able to hang around for awhile. And there's the issue of how they continuously bite even after the head has been separated from the body - and even after most of the head has been removed from the jaw - there's no nervous system in place to regulate this behavior, and no muscle tissue to perform the task, even if the nervous system existed to request it.

It's for reasons like this , that TWD is a bad show.

I understand your point. It's well taken. The Walking Dead isn't really about zombies. It's about survival and how the people relate to each other within that and It's about how people react to impossible situations involving survival. The zombie are just icing on the cake. It could have been a nuclear holocaust or some other traumatic event. This show just happen to use zombies.

Bill

[Adm.Kirk]

Zombies are as ridiculous as ghosts. The idea that a spirit of someone who died can move objects, rattle chains, appear in visions (with clothing on), talk, moan, or even possess someone, is pure loony.

Now, Dracula & The Wolf Man.... now we're talking real possibilities! :lol

I tend to agree about ghosts but having said that I have seen/heard/experienced a few things in my life that I cannot explain. Not saying that there isn't some logical explanation, I'm just saying I can't explain it.

Bill

[Brave73]

https://scontent-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1460254_10153505917260332_1449822212_n.jpg

[Man In The Mountain]

"Hey Daryl, I just kicked Carol out of the group." "Oh cool, let's go tell Tyrese."
Yeah, but that's a part of my "Carol" theory that I talked about earlier. Tyrese then took them to that rat food which is an unsolved mystery. Who was feeding rats to the zombies earlier in the season? So, who killed the two people? Was it Carol?....

I have a theory that the little blond girl killed them, and Carol is protecting her. Remember, Carol was teaching the little girls how to kill zombies, and she didn't want anyone to know about it, especially Rick. So, imagine the one girl goes off and kills the 2 infected people thinking she's got to kill the dying people.... Carol finds them dead, then trying to cover up the incident, she drags them out and burns them.

Carol is taking partial blame and covering it up for the girl. When they question Carol, she gets really upset and knocks over that water container. Then Carol gives lame excuses to Rick why she (herself) killed the people,... it doesn't make sense. Remember, Carol did not want Rick to know she was teaching the girls to kill.

Now, we see the same little girl going for guns in the battle, and blowing someone away square in the head. And she's become a pack leader, leading the other little girls. That was the same girl that was giving the zombies names in the season opener. She's the one feeding them rats, I think! Plus, she also saved Tyrese in the shootout, which brings it all full-circle.

Anyways, that's my theory! haha

Great mid-season finale. I think the Governor didn't really care what made sense, or if everyone died, he just wanted revenge. Though, I think they were stretching it that the people in his group would follow him so vigilantly. Especially tank boy... what was he so angry about? And why destroy the place you want to move into? No matter, great mindless action stuff!