Xaal 90's Zeuhl fusion

[adewolf]

Love these guys only 2 releases that I have seen:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hfFgtUfRLY

[Poisoned Youth]

I dig.

FYI, I tested the edit feature and was able to edit your thread title to the correct spelling of "Zeuhl". Nice feature. :)

[Trane]

Neverv really thought of Xaal as Zeuhl, but more of Crimson-inspired band (well I only ever heard their debut En Chemin... Is their second similar in style?

[Progbear]

I used to have En chemin/On the Way but it never really did it for me. In fact, a lot of well-reviewed prog of this era didn’t sit well with me, for whatever reason.

-------------
MIKE (a.k.a. "Progbear")

"That's my purse! I don't know you!" --Bobby Hill

N.P.:"Intro"-Streetmark/Dry

[yogibear]

i thought "on the way" was killer. don't now much about the second other than it was incomplete and had a meager amount of new tunes.i thought this band had one of their main players get into some sort of life threatening accident. don't know for sure but i really like "on the way" not really zeuhl but more like a zeuhl influenced rock fusion band from France.

[Trane]

just thought I'd resurrect/bump one of the oldest thread of this forum.

just for the hell of it

[Scrotum Scissor]

Neverv really thought of Xaal as Zeuhl, but more of Crimson-inspired band (well I only ever heard their debut En Chemin... Is their second similar in style?

Their second release is essentially where the Zeuhl affiliation stems from. Quite good.

[Zalmoxe]

Their first (we are not counting the cassette the band released in 1990, right?) is OOP so it may be hard to come by, but the second one, released on Musea, should still be available in many places. For my 2 cents, I prefer the first one, but the second one is worth tracking down.

[mellotron storm]

The Guillard brothers(Magma, Weidorje) play horns on the debut. I'm a big fan of their two releases, and they brought in two different horn players for their second album.

[Booba Kastorsky]

Their second release is essentially where the Zeuhl affiliation stems from. Quite good.
Sorry, but I can't hear any Zeul in it. Unless our definitions of Zeuhl are different: I thought Zeul is something that sounds similar to Magma. XAAL were much more agressive and lively.
I'd call it jazz-rock with emphasize on "rock". I'd compare it to David Torn's Polytown, Best laid Plan & Cloud About Mercury.

[Reginod]

Good schtuff. :up
Been looking for a proper CD of En Chemin for a while.

[Scrotum Scissor]

Sorry, but I can't hear any Zeul in it. Unless our definitions of Zeuhl are different: I thought Zeul is something that sounds similar to Magma. XAAL were much more agressive and lively.

Sorry back t'yah, but Magma's Theatre du Taur 1975 is arguably the most aggressive progressive rock live album ever made (and if you miss out on the aggression and "liveliness" of Magma, I suggest you might would listen more, and more attentively). Zeuhl isn't necessarily something that "sounds similar" to Magma; it emannates from some of the same principles as Magma's music - the static attention to dynamics and "dialectical" motions of metrical repetition, texture as microcompositional layers on structure, the overall sense of larger strategies in tension and release etc.

Zeuhl then: Weidorje, Eider Stellaire, Eskaton, Rahman, Potemkine, Dün, Kultivator, Musique Noise, Shub-Niggurath etc.
Now: Koenjihyakkei, Yeti, Setna, Corima, Bondage Fruit, Xing Sa, (some) Simon Steensland, Neom, (some) Happy Family etc.

[Sputnik]

I listened to En Chemin last night. I spin this on occasion, and it's always "OK." This spin was no exception. Certainly listenable, and it does have some good parts, but much of it didn't really hold my attention. Production is a bit so-so as well. Drums lack punch, and the band isn't always tight.

I'll give Seconde Ere as spin soon. I have far less memory of this one, but generally recall I didn't like it as much as En Chemin.


Sorry back t'yah, but Magma's Theatre du Taur 1975 is arguably the most aggressive progressive rock live album ever made (and if you miss out on the aggression and "liveliness" of Magma, I suggest you might would listen more, and more attentively). Zeuhl isn't necessarily something that "sounds similar" to Magma; it emannates from some of the same principles as Magma's music - the static attention to dynamics and "dialectical" motions of metrical repetition, texture as microcompositional layers on structure, the overall sense of larger strategies in tension and release etc.

Zeuhl then: Weidorje, Eider Stellaire, Eskaton, Rahman, Potemkine, Dün, Kultivator, Musique Noise, Shub-Niggurath etc.
Now: Koenjihyakkei, Yeti, Setna, Corima, Bondage Fruit, Xing Sa, (some) Simon Steensland, Neom, (some) Happy Family etc.

I bascially agree with your definition of Zeuhl, but I personally have always struggled to hear that in any significant way in many of the bands you mention; Rahman, Potemkine, Kultivator, Yeti, Happy Family, and I'd add Xaal to the list. Of those, Yeti is probably closest in terms of "metrical repetition," but to me they come at it from a totally different space. I've personally never considered Xaal a Zeuhl band, and listening last night I can't say I heard much that would make me classify them as such.

It's not that it it really matters that much. Arguing what is/isn't Zeuhl is like arguing what is/isn't Prog. Different people will hear it differently. Clearly it is possible to stretch the bounds of Zeuhl beyond "sounding like Magma" (there are certianly bands on your list that do so). But I also think it's possible to use Magma-like elements and come up with something quite different stylistically, or to intentionally incorproate some Zeuhl-ish elements, but produce a result that isn't really "Zeuhl."

Again, I'm not trying to get to some cosmic truth about it. The only reason it matters to me is that I'm not such a big Zeuhl/Magma fan, so if somethinlg like Potemkine is described as "Zeuhl," I'm likely to avoid (luckily I didn't avoid Potemkine, and I love their albums). Maybe it's too blunt lumping bands like that who exhibit some small elements of what the Zeuhl guys do, but bring a lot of different things to the table, into the Zeuhl camp. "Zeuhl-influenced," perhaps (though I still struggle to hear it with some bands), but if the apple falls far enough from the "Magma-like" tree, maybe it's not quite so simple to just label the music "Zeuhl." Just sayin'.

Bill

[Scrotum Scissor]

I bascially agree with your definition of Zeuhl, but I personally have always struggled to hear that in any significant way in many of the bands you mention; Rahman, Potemkine, Kultivator, Yeti, Happy Family, and I'd add Xaal to the list. Of those, Yeti is probably closest in terms of "metrical repetition," but to me they come at it from a totally different space. I've personally never considered Xaal a Zeuhl band, and listening last night I can't say I heard much that would make me classify them as such.

But Bill, this isn't coming from me. I myself heard about these bands being Zeuhl from other folks. Soleil Zeuhl (courtesy Alain Lebon) were responsible for the first CD reissues of many titles in this camp - including Potemkine, Noa, Rialzu, Serge Bringolf, Dün (but not the Vortex, which more people should get to hear) and others whom we might not think sound much "like Magma", but whose adherence was usually stressed by the artists themselves. Zeuhl music doesn't HAVE to display the notorious "throbbing bass" or "metric repetition with additive rhythms" or the "chanting choirs" - just like progressive or "symph" rock bands in general do not HAVE to play a mellotron or perform fugues to meet the criteria.

I once spoke to an ardent fan of Japanoise music who became rabid at the idea that Ruins were somehow a Zeuhl band, seeing how Zeuhl constitutes "prog" and the latter represented some kinda abomination to the guy. Neither did he want to hear about how many prominent Japanoise musicians who actually referred to "prog" artists (including the "uncool" ones) as heroes. And he insisted on not hearing the obvious similarity between his own heroes and that of, say, Magma. It took him an actual conversation with Tasuya Yoshida to let go of the prejudice, 'though I still don't think he ended up changing his initial position or perhaps contemplate the possibility that there might be something he'd missed in forming an opinion.

I'm not saying that your perception is "wrong" - I'm saying that my own ear seems to comply with many an established ear as far as the Zeuhl adherence of those names go.

[spacefreak]

Is their second similar in style?

This is the zeuhlish one.



I used to have En chemin/On the Way but it never really did it for me. In fact, a lot of well-reviewed prog of this era didn’t sit well with me, for whatever reason.

Digital production probably? For me, both Xaal's albums are keepers.

[JAMOOL]

in general, if I like it I will call it Zeuhl :)

saying Magma-esque gives it a rather wide lattitude - there's a big difference between say, MDK and Kohntarkosz. I would say both Corima and Setna are examples of modern Zeuhl bands though they both sound very different.

[Trane]

Wow, glad I resurrected this thread. Thanks dudes.

[Sputnik]

But Bill, this isn't coming from me. I myself heard about these bands being Zeuhl from other folks. Soleil Zeuhl (courtesy Alain Lebon) were responsible for the first CD reissues of many titles in this camp - including Potemkine, Noa, Rialzu, Serge Bringolf, Dün (but not the Vortex, which more people should get to hear) and others whom we might not think sound much "like Magma", but whose adherence was usually stressed by the artists themselves. Zeuhl music doesn't HAVE to display the notorious "throbbing bass" or "metric repetition with additive rhythms" or the "chanting choirs" - just like progressive or "symph" rock bands in general do not HAVE to play a mellotron or perform fugues to meet the criteria.

I hear you. I know this wasn't coming from you. I've seen many list the bands you mention as Zeuhl (well, maybe not Happy Family, but the others for sure). And I've mentioned my issue with this before, and gotten about the same answer you give here, which I buy to some extent.

Not quite sure I totally accept the parallel of Zeuhl elements with "Mellotrons and fugues." For Progressive Rock, those elements aren't as definitive as the thobbing bass and repetition are to me for Zeuhl (the chanting choirs are icing on the cake, but there's much instrumental Zeuhl). And since in some respects Zeuhl is a sub-category of a broader spectrum of "Art" or "Progressive" Rock, when it strays far enough from those elements, it starts to sound more and more like Progressive Rock to me, and less like Zeuhl. Where is the dividing line? As you say...


I'm not saying that your perception is "wrong" - I'm saying that my own ear seems to comply with many an established ear as far as the Zeuhl adherence of those names go.

I think that's probably right. I don't hear enough "Zeuhlishneess" about some of these bands to be comfortable with that lablel, even where I hear some minimal Zuehl influences. Others seem to hear it differently. I think somebody described Xaal earlier as "Zeuhl influenced rock/fusion." I'm more comforable with that, as it acknowledges that this *won't* sound like Magma, but has some of those elements present. But I guess if you feel those elemnts are dominant, you'd desribe it as Zeuhl. So I agree there's no "right" answer, but it's very interesting to discuss the distinctions we make and how we make them, and maybe forge new ones through that discussion.

Bill

[Sputnik]

Just listened to Seconde Ere. Meh. Decent, but nothing super special. I guess I hear a bit more Zuehlish stuff here than the first album. Production is better, but the writing doesn't seem as inspired to me as En Chemin.

Bill