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spellbound
12-11-2012, 02:57 PM
http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0003/454/MI0003454788.jpg?partner=allrovi.com

This album of Emerson, Lake & Palmer's performance at the California Jam in 1974, is supposed to be released today. Why should I care? I was there. This is all I have been able to learn about it so far:

http://www.allmusic.com/album/live-in-california-1974-mw0002440833

The only place I see it available is Amazon. Are the prog vendors planning to sell it?

polmico
12-11-2012, 04:57 PM
Wayside carries the other releases in this series, so I imagine they'll have it (and I don't see why Laser's wouldn't too).

We had a thread about this set on the ol' PE, and it was pretty much agreed on that everything on this new release has already been released. I'd like to learn otherwise, but I think I've already got this show on CD somewhere.

Jeremy Bender
12-11-2012, 05:21 PM
Yawn, the same 52:00 of the Cal Jam performance released again.

How about ELP release more in the bootleg series, I can lend them some of my BSS tour boots if they need sources! Or how about releasing Welcome Back My Friends....with the encore, Pictures at an Exhibition, minus the Jeremy Bender/Sherriff which wasn't played on the BSS tour (it's from 4/10/73, you can tell by Emerson's banter about his roadie Rocky), adding Jeremy Bender instead?

Big Ears
12-11-2012, 05:33 PM
I would like them to release Live at the Royal Albert Hall (1993), this time including the full version of Pictures at an Exhibition on the CD.

no.nine
12-12-2012, 09:57 PM
Or how about releasing Welcome Back My Friends....with the encore, Pictures at an Exhibition


Yes, YES, YES!!

I wouldn't be surprised if it's been long recorded over or lost, though, sad to say.

AncientChord
12-13-2012, 09:39 AM
Again as first posted on the old site...Forget this lack-luster performance. Want a hot and essential ELP live release? NOTHING IMO so far beats their 1972 show at the Mar Y Sol Festival in Puerto Rico. The recording quality is soooo good, that it sounds like then 6 year old Steven Wilson recorded it! :lol And the performance?...stunning. Hands down the best version of Tarkus heard anywhere, just jaw dropping! And Emerson's homage to Dave Brubeck, Blue Rondo A La Turk, just as exciting! An audio example of how great ELP really were in their early days. This one's a hit, not a miss!

polmico
12-13-2012, 09:42 AM
I wish the setlist on the Mar y Sol concert were a little deeper. But, yes, that version of "Tarkus" is best (of the cleanly recorded) versions I've heard. "Hoedown" ain't too bad either, and I almost always skip that track whenever and wherever it comes up.

spellbound
12-13-2012, 11:36 AM
Yawn, the same 52:00 of the Cal Jam performance released again.

I have never seen it released before. I'm always on the lookout for recordings of concerts I attended. If this was released before, I missed it. I remember seeing part of the show broadcast on TV in 1974, but stereo television had not been invented then, maybe not VCRs either. Hence my interest in an official audio release. A DVD would be even better, because the show was visually entertaining. The Deep Purple set from the same night has been released on CD and DVD; I have both. Why not ELP? The Anaheim Convention Center show, which I also attended, is well documented on Welcome Back My Friends...


NOTHING IMO so far beats their 1972 show at the Mar Y Sol Festival in Puerto Rico.

Have that. I agree, it is very good.


Forget this lack-luster performance.

Perhaps it was. I'd still want it as a souvenir of a concert I saw.

Adm.Kirk
12-13-2012, 01:11 PM
Again as first posted on the old site...Forget this lack-luster performance. Want a hot and essential ELP live release? NOTHING IMO so far beats their 1972 show at the Mar Y Sol Festival in Puerto Rico. The recording quality is soooo good, that it sounds like then 6 year old Steven Wilson recorded it! :lol And the performance?...stunning. Hands down the best version of Tarkus heard anywhere, just jaw dropping! And Emerson's homage to Dave Brubeck, Blue Rondo A La Turk, just as exciting! An audio example of how great ELP really were in their early days. This one's a hit, not a miss!

Thats's pretty much my opinion as well. I was quite underwhelmed by Live in California 1974. Mar Y Sol, on the other hand is a beast of a performance. I second your opinion on Tarkus.

Bill

boilk
12-13-2012, 02:36 PM
Hey Spellbound, in case you're not aware, all of the Caljam footage is available on the ELP 2 DVD set, Beyond the Beginning. It has been cleaned up and looks great.

neil

spellbound
12-13-2012, 03:27 PM
Thanks. I didn't know that.

spellbound
12-13-2012, 03:34 PM
I looked up ELP dvds on Amazon. I like the cover picture for this one:

http://www.amazon.com/Emerson-Lake-Palmer-Deluxe-Edition/dp/B008FPZQQU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1355430489&sr=8-1&keywords=emerson+lake+%26+palmer+dvd

The reviews for Beyond the Beginning seem less than positive. Do you recommend it?

JeffCarney
12-13-2012, 05:00 PM
I have never seen it released before. I'm always on the lookout for recordings of concerts I attended. If this was released before, I missed it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Then_and_Now_(Emerson,_Lake_%26_Palmer_album)

Jeremy Bender
12-13-2012, 06:45 PM
The reviews for Beyond the Beginning seem less than positive. Do you recommend it?To be honest, it's a bit of a disappointment. It's got some great clips, but there's no complete shows that haven't been released before, some of the Cal Jam stuff is repeated on the second disc and some of the transfers are spotty. Yet another missed opportunity from whoever is in charge of the ELP archive.

spellbound
12-13-2012, 08:29 PM
Thanks, Jeff and Jeremy. It sucks to live in a town without a record store.:(

JeffCarney
12-13-2012, 08:45 PM
Thanks, Jeff and Jeremy. It sucks to live in a town without a record store.:(

When I see this complaint from someone online, I always enter a complete state of WTFism.

spellbound
12-13-2012, 09:55 PM
When I see this complaint from someone online, I always enter a complete state of WTFism.

Jeff, not all of us shop online in the same way. Some of us hate shopping most of the time. Sure, if I know something exists and want it, I can find it online easily. If I find something interesting online and want to hear samples, I can usually find them. But I am accustomed to being able to learn about releases by finding them in stores (I guess that shows my age), especially now that radio is long dead. I may later have to look albums up online to learn more than the people in the store can tell me (some folks are more knowledgeable than others, and I know all the smart ones in the nearest city). But no one notifies me of new releases, and I don't always find out about them. Soon after they are new, they go out of print. So I find out the most from word of mouth these days. Of course, sites like progstreaming.com are helpful, but they don't cover everything that interests me, and often I haven't the time to listen. After a band stops creating new material or ceases to exist, there is a temptation to ignore new releases as being reissues. In this case, I already own plenty of ELP records and CDs, even a videotape :O. I never ran across a copy of either Then And Now or Beyond The Beginning in stores, so I never became curious enough about them to investigate them, if I heard of their existence at all. I do periodically check the online prog vendors' sites, but there are CDs they don't sell, and some that are hidden well off the home page, to only be discovered by people with lots of time on their hands and money to burn. I'm sure all I need to know about albums exists online, but it doesn't help when I don't know that I need to know it. If that makes sense. The information is there, but not organized in a way that I can best make use of it. It may be to my disadvantage that I don't care for, or participate in, the social networking sites like facebook. We're not all the same. Thankfully.

JeffCarney
12-13-2012, 10:05 PM
Jeff, not all of us shop online in the same way. Some of us hate shopping most of the time. Sure, if I know something exists and want it, I can find it online easily. If I find something interesting online and want to hear samples, I can usually find them. But I am accustomed to being able to learn about releases by finding them in stores (I guess that shows my age), especially now that radio is long dead. I may later have to look albums up online to learn more than the people in the store can tell me (some folks are more knowledgeable than others, and I know all the smart ones in the nearest city). But no one notifies me of new releases, and I don't always find out about them. Soon after they are new, they go out of print. So I find out the most from word of mouth these days. Of course, sites like progstreaming.com are helpful, but they don't cover everything that interests me, and often I haven't the time to listen. After a band stops creating new material or ceases to exist, there is a temptation to ignore new releases as being reissues. In this case, I already own plenty of ELP records and CDs, even a videotape :O. I never ran across a copy of either Then And Now or Beyond The Beginning in stores, so I never became curious enough about them to investigate them, if I heard of their existence at all. I do periodically check the online prog vendors' sites, but there are CDs they don't sell, and some that are hidden well off the home page, to only be discovered by people with lots of time on their hands and money to burn. I'm sure all I need to know about albums exists online, but it doesn't help when I don't know that I need to know it. If that makes sense. The information is there, but not organized in a way that I can best make use of it. It may be to my disadvantage that I don't care for, or participate in, the social networking sites like facebook. We're not all the same. Thankfully.

I miss releases and reissues, too. And I'm not saying there is a thing wrong with wanting to shop at a brick and mortar.

I'm just saying that I find it utterly perplexing that there are still a few people trying to build a collection that way.

Even having lived in the San Francisco Bay Area almost my entire life and there being plenty of record stores, I'd hate to think of where I'd be in my musical journey was I not familiar with online shopping.

Just using the tried and true vendors like Steve and Ken alone would yield so much that one wouldn't typically come across ...

boilk
12-14-2012, 12:04 AM
I like Beyond the Beginning well enough. The Caljam footage is awesome, there is a nice documentary that was done in the early 2000's and a number of clips from other shows, which are already available as stated above, and some videos from the previous bands that the members of ELP were in. I think it is worth the purchase.

Where some have said it falls short is in what it doesn't include. For instance, the complete early seventies show filmed in Japan (although available in bootleg form) would have been nice. Also, the Works orchestral stuff and the Manticore documentary special from the mid seventies (although both commercially available) would have been nice to have been include in pristine form. I believe that BTB was advertised by the ELP camp as being on par with the extensive Led Zep DVD set release a few years back, which it is not. That would be the only drawback.

Again, I think that it is well worth the purchase, but it depends on how much you value what is included.

neil

spellbound
12-14-2012, 06:38 PM
I miss releases and reissues, too. And I'm not saying there is a thing wrong with wanting to shop at a brick and mortar.

I'm just saying that I find it utterly perplexing that there are still a few people trying to build a collection that way.

I'm not really trying to build a collection. I must already have one by now. I know, because if I never bought another CD, I would still be happy with what I have. If I want something prog I try Steve, Ken or Greg first. And I did check them all for this California Jam release. But I still enjoy happening across music in stores, when I am not looking for anything in particular, just browsing. And, in stores, I can still learn about new releases or releases I simply missed out on the first time around. I could, and sometimes do, browse online. But that is less of a social experience. I learn a lot talking to people.

JeffCarney
12-15-2012, 01:47 AM
I'm not really trying to build a collection. I must already have one by now. I know, because if I never bought another CD, I would still be happy with what I have. If I want something prog I try Steve, Ken or Greg first. And I did check them all for this California Jam release. But I still enjoy happening across music in stores, when I am not looking for anything in particular, just browsing. And, in stores, I can still learn about new releases or releases I simply missed out on the first time around. I could, and sometimes do, browse online. But that is less of a social experience. I learn a lot talking to people.

Look, no worries and you shouldn't have to "explain" anything.

All I'm saying is that record shopping is a smaller world now, so don't sweat not having a good record store in your neighborhood.

:)

Burble
12-15-2012, 03:36 AM
What I can't believe is that there's not film/video footage of an entire show from the BSS tour. They were at the peak of their game, musically and financially - it seems like they should have arranged for it. I would love to see live footage of the entire 1st impression of Karn Evil 9 from that tour. Well - okay - I'd love to see the entire show. Did they ever have one filmed? If so, is it tied up in some legal morass somewhere? Or does it simply not exist? Does anyone know?

Doctor Flang
12-15-2012, 03:41 AM
What I can't believe is that there's not film/video footage of an entire show from the BSS tour. They were at the peak of their game, musically and financially - it seems like they should have arranged for it. I would love to see live footage of the entire 1st impression of Karn Evil 9 from that tour. Well - okay - I'd love to see the entire show. Did they ever have one filmed? If so, is it tied up in some legal morass somewhere? Or does it simply not exist? Does anyone know?

The Milan show was recorded and filmed for the Manticore special. At least the multitracks have survived. I wonder if the film material is still somewhere.

Rand Kelly
12-15-2012, 06:26 AM
Beyond The Beginning DVD: Hmmmmmmmmm. For some reason I own 2 of these. One is PAL and the other is NTSC. The only reason I can come up with is it was probably because my old player died,which would play PAL and anything else that looked like a disc,and I decided to order an NTSC version out of panic. Then,as fate would have it,I replaced my old player with an identical one and can now play the PAL. I don't think I even opened up the NTSC yet.

Brian Griffin
12-15-2012, 06:49 AM
The Milan show was recorded and filmed for the Manticore special. At least the multitracks have survived.

Have those surfaced anywhere?

BG

Doctor Flang
12-15-2012, 10:48 AM
Have those surfaced anywhere?

BG

Apart from the remixed Hoedown on the From the Beginning box set, no.

EDIT: Of course, some of it was released on Manticore Special.

Brian Griffin
12-15-2012, 10:54 AM
Scared me for a minute there Dr, thought I'd missed something

Is it "confirmed" that the audio for the balance of the show has survived?

BG

Arkangel3
12-15-2012, 12:05 PM
...Want a hot and essential ELP live release? NOTHING IMO so far beats their 1972 show at the Mar Y Sol Festival in Puerto Rico. The recording quality is soooo good, that it sounds like then 6 year old Steven Wilson recorded it! :lol And the performance?...stunning. Hands down the best version of Tarkus heard anywhere, just jaw dropping!

Completely agree (although I got my copy in "From The Beginning" box set); the Tarkus version on that disc is stunning, as it is on "ELP Live At Nassau Coliseum", yet another great live album. It was the first show after they fired the orchestra, and they play with such ferocity that even the Works songs sound definitive. I am interested in hearing this before I buy though. I just picked up "ABWH Live At The NEC" on CD and it sounds like a good soundboard rather than an album for release (Dime should have had that as a torrent).

prglvr
12-15-2012, 12:13 PM
I remember watching this on TV back in '74...I think it was on "In Concert" on ABC. I had a friend who was there that day for the whole concert. Apparently he was feeling no pain that day, as he said while he was lying on his back listening to the music someone dropped a full ice chest on his head...he was able to laugh about it the next day. I also remember that during the piano solo, Emerson used as the emcee introduced it "The Amazing Flying Piano" and twirled head over heels in the air while playing!

Doctor Flang
12-15-2012, 12:27 PM
Scared me for a minute there Dr, thought I'd missed something

Is it "confirmed" that the audio for the balance of the show has survived?

BG

As far as i know, no. Not that there's been many people asking about it. But the remixed Hoedown on the box set is a proof that at least some of the multitracks remains.

Doctor Flang
12-15-2012, 12:32 PM
There was an facebook petition which to released next, the Cal Jam tapes or one of the Works tour set (sans orchestra). The Cal Jam source tape was told to be incomplete but superior in audio to the previous releases. So, how is it? Is the audio quality better than on Then & Now?

Rand Kelly
12-15-2012, 02:14 PM
I remember watching this on TV back in '74...I think it was on "In Concert" on ABC. I had a friend who was there that day for the whole concert. Apparently he was feeling no pain that day, as he said while he was lying on his back listening to the music someone dropped a full ice chest on his head...he was able to laugh about it the next day. I also remember that during the piano solo, Emerson used as the emcee introduced it "The Amazing Flying Piano" and twirled head over heels in the air while playing!

A bunch of us were watching this on a reg. tv and I had remembered that there was an FM station that we could tune into that had the channel at 87.5 or something way down the dial,and so we turned the sound down on the tv and cranked up the receiver. OMG! It was glorious. He had these huge speakers and it was so loud. They went to a commercial about this little dust buster thing that could suck up anything inc. tacks. You would not believe the sound those tacks made. We all were ROTFLMAO!

donl
12-15-2012, 09:19 PM
Completely agree (although I got my copy in "From The Beginning" box set); the Tarkus version on that disc is stunning, as it is on "ELP Live At Nassau Coliseum", yet another great live album. It was the first show after they fired the orchestra, and they play with such ferocity that even the Works songs sound definitive. I am interested in hearing this before I buy though. I just picked up "ABWH Live At The NEC" on CD and it sounds like a good soundboard rather than an album for release (Dime should have had that as a torrent). live at nassau was recorded in february '78. the last show with the orchestra was olympic stadium in august '77

Arkangel3
12-15-2012, 09:55 PM
Then I stand corrected. This may have been the second show at The Mausoleum. I actually have a boot (Bootleg Box 3) that has the Nassau Show minus orchestra for the first gig at Nassau.

Burble
12-16-2012, 05:38 PM
The Milan show was recorded and filmed for the Manticore special. At least the multitracks have survived. I wonder if the film material is still somewhere.
Not to be a drag, but I think that wasn't really the BSS tour proper. At that point the album hadn't been finished; they played the 2nd part of the 1st impression and Still You Turn Me On on that tour, but nothing else off BSS as I understand. I basically want to see film of the WBMFttStNE set, and ABC totally carved up the California Jam footage of that. I was just hoping there was something else out there.

Doctor Flang
12-16-2012, 06:01 PM
Not to be a drag, but I think that wasn't really the BSS tour proper. At that point the album hadn't been finished; they played the 2nd part of the 1st impression and Still You Turn Me On on that tour, but nothing else off BSS as I understand. I basically want to see film of the WBMFttStNE set, and ABC totally carved up the California Jam footage of that. I was just hoping there was something else out there.

You're right, it's from the Get Me a Ladder tour. Anyway, ELP has been pretty lazy releasing any high quality vintage live material, either audio or film.

Rand Kelly
12-18-2012, 08:49 PM
Seriously,just buy Three Fates Project and be blown away-DAMN this album is awesome!!!

ssully
04-24-2014, 01:42 PM
I never owned 'Then and Now', so this Shout Factory release is the first I've heard the Cal Jam stuff in stereo. Sounds quite good to me. Better than the 'WBMF' audio. Now they really need to match this stereo audio up with the best quality video they can find.

Btw does anyone know the complete setlist ELP played at Cal Jam in 74? Obviously the broadcast was just a selection.

Prog Lives
04-24-2014, 06:36 PM
I thought most of the archived tape was lost when Keith's barn burned down

grego
04-24-2014, 07:19 PM
How's sound quality on this one? Similar to WBMFTTSTNE?

WytchCrypt
04-24-2014, 08:02 PM
I remember watching this on TV back in '74...I think it was on "In Concert" on ABC. I had a friend who was there that day for the whole concert. Apparently he was feeling no pain that day, as he said while he was lying on his back listening to the music someone dropped a full ice chest on his head...he was able to laugh about it the next day. I also remember that during the piano solo, Emerson used as the emcee introduced it "The Amazing Flying Piano" and twirled head over heels in the air while playing!

I believe I've heard an interview with Keith and he said that when the roadies stopped the piano from spinning it came to an instant rather than a gradual stop and his face smashed into the keys...of course he soldiered on half dazed...Keith in a stupor was always better than 90% of the greatest keyboardists on their best day :lol

Brian Griffin
04-26-2014, 10:32 AM
I never owned 'Then and Now', so this Shout Factory release is the first I've heard the Cal Jam stuff in stereo. Sounds quite good to me. Better than the 'WBMF' audio. Now they really need to match this stereo audio up with the best quality video they can find.

Btw does anyone know the complete setlist ELP played at Cal Jam in 74? Obviously the broadcast was just a selection.

Your post piqued my curiosity as I didn't remember "Then and Now" sounding very good

To my great surprise, there is a major, (at least to me), difference in the setlist as Live in California has 10:31 of Pictures at an Exhibition that T & N does not....and it does all sound very very good indeed

BG

Jeremy Bender
04-26-2014, 01:24 PM
Btw does anyone know the complete setlist ELP played at Cal Jam in 74? Obviously the broadcast was just a selection.It was the same as all BSS shows:

Hoedown
Jersualem
Toccata
Tarkus
Benny the Bouncer
Take a Pebble
Still...You Turn Me On
Lucky Man
Piano improv
Take a Pebble reprise
Karn Evil 9 with Palmer solo

Pictures at an Exhibition

What's odd to me is that no bootleg, as in "someone in the audience with a tape recorder, either cassette or reel-to-reel", has ever surfaced of the Cal Jam show. There were 200,000 people there, not one person taped it and that tape survived > got distributed?

GuitarGeek
04-26-2014, 04:01 PM
What's odd to me is that no bootleg, as in "someone in the audience with a tape recorder, either cassette or reel-to-reel", has ever surfaced of the Cal Jam show. There were 200,000 people there, not one person taped it and that tape survived > got distributed?

Maybe ABC were really militant about preventing that from happening.

GuitarGeek
04-26-2014, 04:28 PM
I believe I've heard an interview with Keith and he said that when the roadies stopped the piano from spinning it came to an instant rather than a gradual stop and his face smashed into the keys...of course he soldiered on half dazed

Yeah, I remember Keith giving an interview on the early 90's version of In Concert, when ABC brought it back, and he was interviewed around the time Black Moon came out. He said he yelled for them to stop because he was getting vertigo or whatever, and they apparently slammed on the breaks, as it were. I got into an argument with someone on Youtube about whether or not Keith was really playing the piano or if he was just miming. I'm pretty sure there's no way he could have actually been playing it. Every time the piano would have flipped over, you'd have gotten an 88 note tone cluster, the result of all the hammers hitting all the strings at once!

As for Beyond The Beginning, the thing about that is, I'm aware of the realities of video preservation from the early 70's, so when something like that appears, I'm happy there's anything still available that they could use. One thing you have to remember about that thing is most of the footage probably had to be licensed from someone else, so they couldn't just put full concerts or the full Manticore Special or whatever on it. That's probably why there's only one song from the Beat Club appearance, for instance.

What bugs me is the number of concerts that are excerpted on thing, yet there's no complete Tarkus. It would be nice to see some footage of Keith playing one of those great solos from the end section, I guess the Aquatarkus bit, but we get zip, zero, zilch, nada, none, access DENIED!!! What the frell?! The one thing you want to see in an ELP video, and it's not there!

As for the Tokyo footage, I've got it on the hard drive, downloaded it off Youtube a couple years ago. There's some good stuff in there, but Greg's guitar is out of tune during Tarkus, and I think the Moog goes in and out of tune in a few places as well (but didn't it always do that?!). I'd have to watch it again to tell you how good the performance was. The thing I actually remember the most is the intro with male and female announcers doing this tag team MC thing, over a snippet of one of the songs, I forget which one. It just seemed like one of those quintessentially weird things you always get with Japanese television.

WytchCrypt
04-26-2014, 07:45 PM
I got into an argument with someone on Youtube about whether or not Keith was really playing the piano or if he was just miming. I'm pretty sure there's no way he could have actually been playing it. Every time the piano would have flipped over, you'd have gotten an 88 note tone cluster, the result of all the hammers hitting all the strings at once!

Ha, never thought of that...perhaps the momentum caused by the speed of the rotation counter balanced the force of gravity that would have slammed the 88 hammers onto the strings ;)

trurl
04-26-2014, 07:55 PM
I got into an argument with someone on Youtube about whether or not Keith was really playing the piano or if he was just miming. I'm pretty sure there's no way he could have actually been playing it.

You are correct, for many reasons. Keith has been pretty upfront that it was a stunt- there weren't even guts in the piano. I don't know if a forklift could have raised a real piano. The micing would have been a fiasco. The rig just to keep the cables from twisting would have been an engineering feat. The hammers would have gone nuts, as you point out. The idea that it was real is ludicrous.

Halmyre
04-29-2014, 12:45 PM
Ha, never thought of that...perhaps the momentum caused by the speed of the rotation counter balanced the force of gravity that would have slammed the 88 hammers onto the strings ;)

And then there's the "face on keyboard" chord. What would that have sounded like?

GuitarGeek
04-29-2014, 03:39 PM
And then there's the "face on keyboard" chord. What would that have sounded like?

A tone cluster, but just a few notes, not all 88.

Mister Triscuits
04-29-2014, 04:31 PM
And then there's the "face on keyboard" chord. What would that have sounded like?

Fmaj7.