The greatest novels of all time.

[firth5th]

..or at least the best English-language novels of the 20th century....

So I started a personal self development project to read some of the greatest novels of all time. There are many lists out there, but the Modern Library list seems to be the most definitive. I posted the top 20 below. The full list is here:

http://www.modernlibrary.com/top-100/100-best-novels/


So far I read the Great Gatsby and Brave New World. I started Animal Farm yesterday, and I might finish today if I have time, as it is just a short novella. I bought Lolita (that book by Nabakov) and The Sound and The Fury, so they are next. I also bought The Catcher in the Rye.

So comment away. Have you read many of these? What are your thoughts on them? What do you think of the list? Which are your favorites? Which are over rated?

Ulysses is right up there on all the lists, and # 1 on this list. I'm a little scared to take the plunge, given how long it is, and also I read some of the reviews that say it is a very difficult read.



Top 100 Modern Library

ULYSSES
by James Joyce
THE GREAT GATSBY
by F. Scott Fitzgerald
A PORTRAIT OF THE ARTIST AS A YOUNG MAN
by James Joyce
LOLITA
by Vladimir Nabokov
BRAVE NEW WORLD
by Aldous Huxley
THE SOUND AND THE FURY
by William Faulkner
CATCH-22
by Joseph Heller
DARKNESS AT NOON
by Arthur Koestler
SONS AND LOVERS
by D.H. Lawrence
THE GRAPES OF WRATH
by John Steinbeck
UNDER THE VOLCANO
by Malcolm Lowry
THE WAY OF ALL FLESH
by Samuel Butler
1984
by George Orwell
I, CLAUDIUS
by Robert Graves
TO THE LIGHTHOUSE
by Virginia Woolf
AN AMERICAN TRAGEDY
by Theodore Dreiser
THE HEART IS A LONELY HUNTER
by Carson McCullers
SLAUGHTERHOUSE-FIVE
by Kurt Vonnegut
INVISIBLE MAN
by Ralph Ellison
NATIVE SON
by Richard Wright

[firth5th]

A little background on how the list was put together:


Modern Library's 100 Best Novels is a list of the best English-language novels [1] of the 20th century as selected by the Modern Library, an American publishing company owned by Random House.
In early 1998, the Modern Library polled its editorial board to find the best 100 novels of the 20th century. The board consisted of Daniel J. Boorstin, A. S. Byatt, Christopher Cerf, Shelby Foote, Vartan Gregorian, Edmund Morris, John Richardson, Arthur Schlesinger Jr., William Styron and Gore Vidal.

[Oreb]

If you wanted to read a selection of mid-20th century US novels that were widely praised in US college literature courses in the 70s and 80s then this looks pretty solid.

But as a list of the greatest novels "of all time" IMO it's not in any way representative.

Re "Ulysses", when I first read it I had a lot of help from this great book:

http://www.amazon.com/The-New-Bloomsday-Book-ebook/dp/B000FA62LQ/ref=sr_1_sc_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1355178881&sr=8-2-spell&keywords=bllomsday+book

I'm sure it's around second hand at a reasonable price.

[walt]

I'd add Burr by Gore Vidal.A historical novel,yes,but still, a great read and one that i revisit every so often.

[firth5th]

If you wanted to read a selection of mid-20th century US novels that were widely praised in US college literature courses in the 70s and 80s then this looks pretty solid.

But as a list of the greatest novels "of all time" IMO it's not in any way representative.

Re "Ulysses", when I first read it I had a lot of help from this great book:

http://www.amazon.com/The-New-Bloomsday-Book-ebook/dp/B000FA62LQ/ref=sr_1_sc_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1355178881&sr=8-2-spell&keywords=bllomsday+book

I'm sure it's around second hand at a reasonable price.

Your right. The list is not the best of all time. It's the best English language books of the 20th century. I can't edit the title, but I clarified in the OP.

The Ulysses guide looks indispensable. I'll have to procure it when I'm ready to "take the plunge."

[Shadow]

Story of O :

Published in French by Jean-Jacques Pauvert, Story of O is a tale of female submission about a beautiful Parisian fashion photographer, O, who is blindfolded, chained, whipped, branded, pierced, made to wear a mask, and taught to be constantly available for oral, vaginal, and anal intercourse. Despite her harsh treatment, O grants permission beforehand for everything that occurs, and her permission is consistently sought.

At the beginning of the story, O's lover, René, brings her to the château of Roissy, where she is trained to serve the men of an elite group. After this first period of training is finished, as a demonstration of their bond and his generosity, René hands O to Sir Stephen, a more dominant master. René wants O to learn to serve someone whom she does not love, and someone who does not love her. Over the course of this training, O falls in love with Sir Stephen and believes him to be in love with her as well. While her vain friend and lover, Jacqueline, is repulsed by O's chains and scars, O herself is proud of her condition as a willing slave. During the summer, Sir Stephen decides to move O to Samois, an old mansion solely inhabited by women for advanced training and body modifications related to submission. There she agrees to receive a branding and a labia piercing with rings marked with Sir Stephen's initials and insignia. At the climax, O appears as a slave, nude but for an owl-like mask, before a large party of guests who treat her solely as an object.

[helicase]

So the greatest novels ever are all in English? :) EDIT: OK, I see you've already addressed this point.

I'm always a bit wary of lists like this. I don't know what initial factors influence the mentioning of books as great (the greatest), but it seems to me that at some point everyone just starts to parrot everyone else. It doesn't matter whether people actually read these great books (or liked them if they did): it's just "common knowledge" that they are the best.

From your list, I've only read 1984 and I found it rather boring. I tried Ulysses but didn't get very far.

For a different list you could have a go at what my brother once tried: read something by every Nobel laureate. I don't think he got very far; some of the early laureates in particular wrote very tedious stuff. YMMV of course.

[wideopenears]

Of your excerpted list, I have not read:
Darkness at Noon
Under the Volcano
The Way of All Flesh
The Heart is a Lonely Hunter

I've read the others. Ulysses is one of my favorite-ever novels, but it takes patience and attention. Finnagan's, now THAT's a difficult book.

[wideopenears]

...The Magus is one of my all-time faves, too...nice to see it on both of the longer lists in the link. But...the reader's list starts off with THREE of my least favorite, most reviled, books ever......

[wideopenears]

Also, Lolita is great, but Ada, or Ardor is at least as good, and Pale Fire is astonishing.

[firth5th]

Any thoughts on Gatsby or Brave New World? Those are the first two I read on my quest. I thought both of them were kind of "meh".

[firth5th]

Any do you know of any songs that reference these books? The Police are referencing Lolita in "Don't Stand So Close to Me" with the line "just like the old man in that book by Nabokov." #97 on the list "The Sheltering Sky" is the name of a King Crimson song.

[Jymbot]

The list would be less of a joke if you took off all that American raff - Steinbeck,Fitzgerald,Faulkner,Lawrence.
You gotta be kidding.

[wideopenears]

Faulkner rules, IMO.

[Scott Bails]

The list would be less of a joke if you took off all that American raff - Steinbeck,Fitzgerald,Faulkner,Lawrence.
You gotta be kidding.


Oh, yeah. Those guys sucked.



:roll:roll:roll

[Jymbot]

Why basically no Euro, etc writers?
Nothing worthy from South America?
Fuck that list.(Well at least half of it.)

No Kalfka? No Camus?

Andrei Platonov - the foundation pit
Eugene (Yevgeny) Zamyatin - We
Bruno Schultz - Street of Crocodiles
Gunter Grass
James Branch Cabell
Bulakov - master & margauarita
Calvino
Landolfi



too many
too many

[polmico]

too many

That goes without saying.

Perhaps some of your complaints could be chalked up to this being English language books. I'm guessing that means books that were written in English. That would necessarily exclude Camus and S. American writers.

[polmico]

Any thoughts on Gatsby or Brave New World? Those are the first two I read on my quest. I thought both of them were kind of "meh".

Both great.

[polmico]

I love how the readers' list has two Rand novels at the top. I guess Objectivists are good at sitting around on the internet all day and voting for books they like.

[Scott Bails]

No Kalfka?



Not on a greatest novels list, no.

[Jymbot]

That goes without saying.

Perhaps some of your complaints could be chalked up to this being English language books. I'm guessing that means books that were written in English. That would necessarily exclude Camus and S. American writers.

My complaint is why did he stipulate English?

[helicase]

Any do you know of any songs that reference these books? The Police are referencing Lolita in "Don't Stand So Close to Me" with the line "just like the old man in that book by Nabokov." #97 on the list "The Sheltering Sky" is the name of a King Crimson song.
Antimatter has a song called A Portrait of the Young Man As an Artist and there's the krautrock band Brave New World with their album Impressions on Reading Aldous Huxley.

[Scott Bails]

My complaint is why did he stipulate English?


Going out on a limb here, but probably because that's the language that he speaks and reads.


Call me crazy...

[firth5th]

My complaint is why did he stipulate English?

Dude, you need to take some Soma ;)

[East New York]

TJ, is that you? :D

[Jymbot]

Dude, you need to take some Soma ;)

Moloko.

....
Do not EVER AGAIN use that vulgar, common, disrespectful term of abusement and belittlement on a PROG MASTERMAN, Jimmeh.
Im not your buddy and the affectionate punch can go fuck.

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s145/baggra/Bitco/psych/angry-badger1.jpg

Seriously.

VERY SERIOUSLY.

[thedunno]

All list are arbitrary. There is no definitive list of all time greatest novels.

For me the main novel that is missing on the list is “Snow” by Orhan Pamuk. It is considered the masterpiece of a Nobel Prize winner, so I think there is a point that it should be included. It is also one of my all time favourite novels. A great tale of the struggles within Turkey set in the surrealistic setting of a city that is completely sealed of from the outside world by the snow in eastern turkey.

Another of my favourites is “Midnights Children” by Salman Rushdie. It tells the history of India seen through the eyes of a specially gifted kid, born on the exact time of the Indian independence. Full of symbolism and surrealism but a great dose of humor makes it relatively easy to digest. Absolutely brilliant! Rushdie is probably my favourite writer ever.

[wideopenears]

Midnight's Children is definitely on my Top 100 list. Glad you mentioned it!

[PeterG]

That was Then, This is Now - S.E.Hinton
A Long Long Way - Sebastian Barry
The House of Doctor Dee - Peter Ackroyd
Eureka Street - Robert McLiam Wilson
War of the Worlds - H.G.Wells
The Cossacks - Tolstoy
The Woman in Black - Susan Hill
The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes - Arthur Conan Doyle
The Canterville Ghost - Oscar Wilde

[per anporth]

Ulysses.

The very best of the best. A book that one can - & I do - return to, time after time after time - all of life's rich tapestry is to be found here.

Do use books like the one mentioned to help. Also, do listen - the BBC did a wonderful job for Bloomsday earlier this year, & the recordings should still be downloadable.

One word of advice - stick with it through the sludge of Stephen's blurred, short-sighted, overly mind-y, 3rd chap... & then plunge into the wonderful, rich, bodily, humane world of Mr Leopold Bloom.

[PeterG]

That's where I always got stuck. I don't think I've ever made it beyond his wialing and torment. But I have jumped forward to the best Bloom moments.

Over 10 years ago I visited the actual Martello Tower south of Dublin that Joyce used as model for the book. It has a Joyce museum in it including a large plaster statue of the black panther of Haines' nightmares.

[Facelift]

Here's 21-100, for those interested. I've read a little over half of them, and most of the rest are on my list of novels to eventually get to.

One recommendation of things to definitely read are the two Ford Madox Ford titles: The Good Soldier and Parade's End. Ford is among the most underrated of the canonized writers, IMO. He was boringly white, British and male in a century that prefers to remember women, Americans and non-white writers, so he's rarely among the first names mentioned in a discussion about 20th Century English-language literature, despite producing two titles that get pretty much universal praise. He also was an innovator, pioneering an impressionistic style of narrative that would be taken further by some of his younger contemporaries. Start with The Good Soldier, which is relatively short. If you like it, go for Parade's End, which is much longer.


by Richard Wright
21.HENDERSON THE RAIN KING
by Saul Bellow
22.APPOINTMENT IN SAMARRA
by John O’Hara
23.U.S.A.(trilogy)
by John Dos Passos
24.WINESBURG, OHIO
by Sherwood Anderson
25.A PASSAGE TO INDIA
by E.M. Forster
26.THE WINGS OF THE DOVE
by Henry James
27.THE AMBASSADORS
by Henry James
28.TENDER IS THE NIGHT
by F. Scott Fitzgerald
29.THE STUDS LONIGAN TRILOGY
by James T. Farrell
30.THE GOOD SOLDIER
by Ford Madox Ford
31.ANIMAL FARM
by George Orwell
32.THE GOLDEN BOWL
by Henry James
33.SISTER CARRIE
by Theodore Dreiser
34.A HANDFUL OF DUST
by Evelyn Waugh
35.AS I LAY DYING
by William Faulkner
36.ALL THE KING’S MEN
by Robert Penn Warren
37.THE BRIDGE OF SAN LUIS REY
by Thornton Wilder
38.HOWARDS END
by E.M. Forster
39.GO TELL IT ON THE MOUNTAIN
by James Baldwin
40.THE HEART OF THE MATTER
by Graham Greene
41.LORD OF THE FLIES
by William Golding
42.DELIVERANCE
by James Dickey
43.A DANCE TO THE MUSIC OF TIME (series)
by Anthony Powell
44.POINT COUNTER POINT
by Aldous Huxley
45.THE SUN ALSO RISES
by Ernest Hemingway
46.THE SECRET AGENT
by Joseph Conrad
47.NOSTROMO
by Joseph Conrad
48.THE RAINBOW
by D.H. Lawrence
49.WOMEN IN LOVE
by D.H. Lawrence
50.TROPIC OF CANCER
by Henry Miller
51.THE NAKED AND THE DEAD
by Norman Mailer
52.PORTNOY’S COMPLAINT
by Philip Roth
53.PALE FIRE
by Vladimir Nabokov
54.LIGHT IN AUGUST
by William Faulkner
55.ON THE ROAD
by Jack Kerouac
56.THE MALTESE FALCON
by Dashiell Hammett
57.PARADE’S END
by Ford Madox Ford
58.THE AGE OF INNOCENCE
by Edith Wharton
59.ZULEIKA DOBSON
by Max Beerbohm
60.THE MOVIEGOER
by Walker Percy
61.DEATH COMES FOR THE ARCHBISHOP
by Willa Cather
62.FROM HERE TO ETERNITY
by James Jones
63.THE WAPSHOT CHRONICLES
by John Cheever
64.THE CATCHER IN THE RYE
by J.D. Salinger
65.A CLOCKWORK ORANGE
by Anthony Burgess
66.OF HUMAN BONDAGE
by W. Somerset Maugham
67.HEART OF DARKNESS
by Joseph Conrad
68.MAIN STREET
by Sinclair Lewis
69.THE HOUSE OF MIRTH
by Edith Wharton
70.THE ALEXANDRIA QUARTET
by Lawrence Durell
71.A HIGH WIND IN JAMAICA
by Richard Hughes
72.A HOUSE FOR MR BISWAS
by V.S. Naipaul
73.THE DAY OF THE LOCUST
by Nathanael West
74.A FAREWELL TO ARMS
by Ernest Hemingway
75.SCOOP
by Evelyn Waugh
76.THE PRIME OF MISS JEAN BRODIE
by Muriel Spark
77.FINNEGANS WAKE
by James Joyce
78.KIM
by Rudyard Kipling
79.A ROOM WITH A VIEW
by E.M. Forster
80.BRIDESHEAD REVISITED
by Evelyn Waugh
81.THE ADVENTURES OF AUGIE MARCH
by Saul Bellow
82.ANGLE OF REPOSE
by Wallace Stegner
83.A BEND IN THE RIVER
by V.S. Naipaul
84.THE DEATH OF THE HEART
by Elizabeth Bowen
85.LORD JIM
by Joseph Conrad
86.RAGTIME
by E.L. Doctorow
87.THE OLD WIVES’ TALE
by Arnold Bennett
88.THE CALL OF THE WILD
by Jack London
89.LOVING
by Henry Green
90.MIDNIGHT’S CHILDREN
by Salman Rushdie
91.TOBACCO ROAD
by Erskine Caldwell
92.IRONWEED
by William Kennedy
93.THE MAGUS
by John Fowles
94.WIDE SARGASSO SEA
by Jean Rhys
95.UNDER THE NET
by Iris Murdoch
96.SOPHIE’S CHOICE
by William Styron
97.THE SHELTERING SKY
by Paul Bowles
98.THE POSTMAN ALWAYS RINGS TWICE
by James M. Cain
99.THE GINGER MAN
by J.P. Donleavy
100.THE MAGNIFICENT AMBERSONS
by Booth Tarkington

[firth5th]

I finished Animal Farm last night. Easy and fast read. I completed 3% of the list now (Animal Far, Brave New World, The Great Gatsby). Up next - The Catcher in the Rye.

Actually, I read a few of these books in HS (like 1984), but I'm not counting that. I'm only counting my adult readings, with my adult understanding.

I think I read Animal Farm in middle school, but then it was not an allegory on totalitarianism, it was an funny book about pigs and horses who talked.

[Oreb]

You know what? You could save yourself a lot of time andd increase your enjoyment as well by ditching the list and getting a copy of these two books:

http://www.amazon.com/ABC-Reading-New-Directions-Paperbook/dp/0811218937/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1355525698&sr=1-1&keywords=abc+of+reading

http://www.amazon.com/Guide-Kulchur-Ezra-Pound/dp/0811201562/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1355525762&sr=1-1&keywords=guide+to+kulchur

Pound was a genius - brilliant at cutting through academic posturing and getting to the nitty grittty. As a poet, IMO, he was witout peer in the 20th century.

He was also, however, a complete fuck-up in his personal and political life (supported the fascists in WW2, wrote some vile anti-semitic crap) so please don't assume my endorsement of his stuff is anything like all-embracing!

[Scott Bails]

I finished Animal Farm last night. Easy and fast read. I completed 3% of the list now (Animal Far, Brave New World, The Great Gatsby). Up next - The Catcher in the Rye.

Actually, I read a few of these books in HS (like 1984), but I'm not counting that. I'm only counting my adult readings, with my adult understanding.

I think I read Animal Farm in middle school, but then it was not an allegory on totalitarianism, it was an funny book about pigs and horses who talked.

How can you possibly read Animal Farm in school and not be taught that it was allegory?!!! :O

[sonic]

Charles Bukowski - Ham on Rye.

'nuff said. ;)

[sonic]

How can you possibly read Animal Farm in school and not be taught that it was allegory?!!! :O
Yes. That is shocking.

[firth5th]

Yes. That is shocking.

As I said, middle school ...probably 12 years old. A long time ago. I'm sure they taught that it was an allegory, but at that age I was more into the "cartoonish" aspect of the book - that is, talking animals.

[polmico]

As I said, middle school ...probably 12 years old. A long time ago. I'm sure they taught that it was an allegory, but at that age I was more into the "cartoonish" aspect of the book - that is, talking animals.

I think the "shocking" aspect was that your teacher didn't try to explain that stuff to you.

[firth5th]

I think the "shocking" aspect was that your teacher didn't try to explain that stuff to you.

Probably did. Sorry I brought it up.

[polmico]

Charles Bukowski - Ham on Rye.

'nuff said. ;)

Damn. I need to read and re-read me some Bukowski. I remember falling in love with him when I was around 20 and haven't read any since.

[polmico]

Probably did. Sorry I brought it up.

Oh, no worries, man. Shit, if I remembered the stuff that I had been taught when I was in middle school I would . . . um, I forgot what I was saying. :)

[firth5th]

Oh, no worries, man. Shit, if I remembered the stuff that I had been taught when I was in middle school I would . . . um, I forgot what I was saying. :)

:up

[Scott Bails]

Oh, no worries, man. Shit, if I remembered the stuff that I had been taught when I was in middle school I would . . . um, I forgot what I was saying. :)

:lol Indeed!

[sonic]

Damn. I need to read and re-read me some Bukowski. I remember falling in love with him when I was around 20 and haven't read any since.
I read his stuff for the first time a few years ago. Classic. The man tells it like it is. No bullshit.

[firth5th]

I read his stuff for the first time a few years ago. Classic. The man tells it like it is. No bullshit.

Sounds refreshing. I'll need to check it out.

[sonic]

Sounds refreshing. I'll need to check it out.
Most of his novels are autobiographical. I'd recommend Ham on Rye first as it details his early life and gives you a good background into who he is.

[JKL2000]

Faulkner is awesome.

One of my favorites is "Sister Carrie" by Theodore Dreiser - an excellent read.

[PeterG]

Can I start a little "going-off-at-a-tangent" discussion: The most annoying unreadable novels of all time....or would you rather I started a new thread?

The most annoying unreadable novels/plays I've ever read or tried to read:

1. Moby Dick - Herman Melville
2. The Alchemist- Paulo Coelho
3. The Lord of the Rings (first book) - Tolkein
4. The Catcher in the Rye - J. D. Salinger
5. Silas Marner - George Elliot
6. Endgame - Samuel Beckett (pains me to have a great Irish writer on ths list, but there you have it)
7. Magic Cottage - James Herbert
8. The Tommyknockers -Stephen King

Bubbling under

Everything else I've ever read by Tolkein
Henry James - pick a title!
Some Steinbeck, some Hemingway
Most of the stuff written by most of those English women in the 18th and 19th centuries: Brontes, Austen, Elliot, (Mary Shelley the notable exception)

[Homburg]

To the Lighthouse is the best.

[firth5th]

To the Lighthouse is the best.

Someone just trashed it on the other thread. I guess I'll have to read it myself and make up my own mind.

[polmico]

Woolf is a little cold and academic, but To the Lighthouse is quite good. I'd have to re-read it to offer anything more than that as it's been close to 15 years since I first experienced it.

[PeterG]

Amsterdam - Ian McEwan - a wonderful book
Hunger - Knut Hamsun
Mysteries - Knut Hamsun

And every single novel written by Magnus Mills:
The Restraint of Beasts
All Quiet on the Orient Express
The Scheme for Full Employment
Three to See the King

[Stevie B]

And every single novel written by Magnus Mills:

All Quiet on the Orient Express



I've never heard of him, but that's a great title!

[PeterG]

Check him out, his writing is very refreshing yet disturbed.

[Lopez]

I'll have to give this more thought, but at the moment my greatest novels of all time are

1. The Land of Laughs - Jonathan Carroll
2. The Stand - Stephen King (though I think Swan Song by Robert McCammon and Alas, Babylon by Pat Frank are right up there as far as end-of-the-world books)
3. Martin Eden - Jack London

[Jerjo]

Just about anything by Michael Chabon does the trick for me. For my money, he's the best writer working right now. Plus, he's a prog fan.

[polmico]

George Saunders has a new collection of shorts coming out. For my money, he's the best writer working these days.

http://http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/06/magazine/george-saunders-just-wrote-the-best-book-youll-read-this-year.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0