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Thread: YES - Heaven and Earth 2014

  1. #26
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    After two spins at home, I like H&E a lot. I don't need Relayer Mk. 2. Just give me good songs. These may be that. They've got more of a Yes "vibe" than anything since, I don't know, Tormato maybe?

    Within a month or two I'll know whether it is a keeper or not. I'm also happy that the good folks at Amazon saved me some money!


    You saved $0.01 with Amazon.com's Pre-order Price Guarantee!

    The price of the item(s) decreased after you ordered them, and we gave you the lowest price.

    The following title(s) decreased in price:

    Heaven & Earth
    Price on order date: $10.00
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    Total Savings: $0.01

  2. #27
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    I pre-ordered it from Amazon, but still has not arrived yet. I am hoping I get it before seeing them in Chicago Saturday night.

  3. #28
    Review of Heaven and Earth

    This is my first time reviewing a new Yes album online, and I’ve decided to do so because of the controversy and vehement disagreement over the quality of the album. Yes seems to provoke strong opinions, ranging from admiring, even idealizing opinions to harsh, uncharitable attacks. The harsh reactions strike me as extreme, but perhaps Yes have set such high standards that it is difficult to stomach their inevitable missteps.

    Heaven and Earth is, as others have noted, an unusual Yes album. It is quieter, less dynamic, and more song oriented than their other albums. Some of the music is close to AOR, but traditional elements of prog rock remain, including some unusual time signatures, challenging parts, and overall excellent musicianship—so I consider it prog, although a lighter version of the genre. It may be that as the members of Yes have aged, their appreciation of music that is softer and mellower has grown. If so, I can relate. Now in my mid-fifties, I listen to quieter, more mellow music than I did when I was 25. Over the years, I have enjoyed the forays of Yes members into new age music, particularly Steve Howe’s collaborations with Paul Sutin. I suspect that much of the negative reaction to Heaven and Earth has its roots in the tendency for virtuosic prog rock to be busy music, with everyone in the band playing something rhythmically and melodically complex—and different—all at once. This makes for exceptionally interesting and challenging music, but strengths can also be weaknesses. Busy prog rock often lacks space; in my opinion the idea that prog must involve constant or near-constant lines of complex music is a fallacy. I am reminded of French Impressionist Claude Debussy, who said: “Music is the space between the notes.” Sometimes prog would benefit from more space.

    I am enjoying the mellow, quieter focus of Heaven and Earth. Contrary to the comments of some reviewers, aggressive and dynamic playing is not absent from the album. It simply plays a smaller part. Chris Squire’s muscular bass is present and impressive. Steve Howe’s eclectic guitar playing is there, and it is both aggressive at times and restrained at other times. Howe seems to be the rare rock guitarist who understands restraint, and so his style(s) fit easily into the album. Geoff Downes’ keyboards are lush, colorful, and inventive, and he co-wrote what I consider to be the strongest track on the album, “Subway Walls”. Some may criticize some of his older keyboard sounds, but I for one enjoy the keyboard sounds of the 80’s, as well as the more contemporary sounding samples he uses. Alan White remains the steady, reliable, and at times innovative timekeeper of the group. Alan does seem to have slowed down a bit, but of all the rock and roll instruments to be playing in one’s 60’s, he clearly has the most physically challenging of them. (I wish that I could have the stamina in my 60’s to play the drums for two and a half hours every night!). Newcomer Jon Davison brings a strong and committed voice to the proceedings, and his central role in the songwriting has contributed greatly to the quality of the album. Davison sounds just enough like Jon Anderson for the album to sound like Yes, but his voice and style have their own character, which makes him more than just an Anderson clone. Jon Davison’s energy and integrity as a performer have become a central aspect of this incarnation of Yes.

    I must admit that my first reaction to the song Believe Again, when it was released weeks ahead of the album, wasn’t so enthusiastic. I didn’t like the song at first, and my initial reaction was that it would make a good Starcastle song. Not a compliment. However, as I’ve listened to the song with an open mind, it has grown on me and I thoroughly enjoy it now. My first reaction to many Yes songs has been like this; it often take several listens to wrap my mind around the song. I enjoy the unexpected melodic complexity of this song, and the contributions of all the band members.

    The songs on Heaven and Earth are melodic, with hooks and themes that have stayed with me. Not all of the songs work as well as I would like, but most work quite well. “Subway Walls” and “Light of the Ages” are likely to become new Yes classics, and worth the cost of the album by themselves. “The Game” is an enjoyable and interesting AOR song, which I find more interesting than anything on 90125 except “Changes”. “To Ascend” is an engaging, lighter prog song that makes good use of Steve Howe’s 12 string guitar. “Believe Again” is a subtle and unconventional song that, as I said, has grown on me. While some have panned Jon Davison’s lyrics, I find them equal to the lyrics of most Yes songs, which have always aimed at the cosmic, but vary from the profound to the sometimes clichéd. “I am really coming to know the empty space; Beneath the surface of common days” from “Believe Again” is a truly profound line.

    The album does suffer from less than optimal recording. Roy Thomas Baker’s approach to recording and production seems a poor match for Yes music. Billy Sherwood’s mixing of the album appears to have improved the situation, but the contrast between the recording quality of Heaven and Earth and the last album, Fly From Here, is striking. While the quality of the production is disappointing, some of Yes’ best albums have suffered from downright poor recording and production (e.g. Relayer).

    To sum up, Heaven and Earth is a markedly different and richly musical Yes album. The music is melodic, sometimes downright gentle, and has a fresh feel to it. There is still virtuosic playing by the band, and this restrained, song-oriented approach works well on the album. The album isn’t perfect, and some of the songs could have benefitted from more development. I give the album four (out of five) stars. I’m grateful that Yes still exists and is capable of making such music in 2014. I am looking forward to seeing them again in Nashville in a few days.

  4. #29
    yeselpkrimson
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean View Post
    Keep it clean folks and be respectful of each other even if you don't like this CD. The last thread went to shit. Make one that is worthy of PE's proper motivations (to teach and enlighten others about music). NOT one that adds to our online music forum "cesspool" rep. MMM, K?
    Maybe leaving the thread up and moderating Geoof's attempts "to teach and enlighten others about music" would have kept it from becoming a cesspool only 2 days into the official release period?

  5. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Obscured View Post
    Uhmmm....yep (yes? ahem.) Was in Union Square store, also the Best Buy a few blocks away. Did purchase some goodies at the farmers market set up in the park though. The Best Buy had a card placement for the cd but no items in the row. Listed on sale for $9.99. Checked online and Best Buy states there are copies in stores on Lex & 86, near Trump Plaza on 5th and in Queens Center; will hit those today. Didn't want to order online and wait for shipping because I just figured it would be available in a store for immediate satisfaction.
    Thanx for input e1.
    Wow, that sucks. I didn't mean to come off as if I was doubting the accuracy of your search; just that I used to work across the street from the 3rd avenue B&N and would buy CDs there regularly. 10-15 years ago, a new Yes album is something that they would definitely have in stock. I haven't been there in a couple of years, but they still had a good-sized selection of CDs when I was last in the store.

    Did you try Othermusic? It's not in their wheelhouse, but it's possible that they could have it. Rough Trade in Brooklyn?

  6. #31
    Moderator Sean's Avatar
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    I don't really think so. It was a bloated mess at 150+ pages, a reboot was in order regardless. It's funny how people can take all these swipes at the band and then don't like it much when one of them comes around and defends themselves. It's par for the course in the 'net age.

  7. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by yeselpkrimson View Post
    Maybe leaving the thread up and moderating Geoof's attempts "to teach and enlighten others about music" would have kept it from becoming a cesspool only 2 days into the official release period?
    It was a cesspool quite some time before that, IMHO.

    Let's learn from it, and try to keep this thread going in a positive direction.

  8. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Sean View Post
    I don't really think so. It was a bloated mess at 150+ pages, a reboot was in order regardless. It's funny how people can take all these swipes at the band and then don't like it much when one of them comes around and defends themselves. It's par for the course in the 'net age.
    ^ This.

  9. #34
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    In my grubby little hands! Best Buy in Queens had it. Looked there 2 days ago, whatever. $9.99 + tax = $10.88.
    Going to *prepare* my head for optimal listening pleasure later and slap on the headphones. I did enjoy the "preliminary" copy I've heard, so I am expecting an even more enjoyable experience.
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  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by ItalProgRules View Post
    I'm thinking of passing on it. I was kind of ambivalent as it is, but after being personally attacked by Geoff Downes I can't see putting a cent in his pocket.

    Wealthy rock stars attacking ordinary fans. WTF.
    You're upset because someone you called 'fat' attacked you?

  11. #36
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    Funnily enough on the Steve Hoffman forum, they are raving about the sound quality and dynamic range.

    It's selling very well here in the UK, it's in the Top 10.

  12. #37
    Having now listened to the album a couple of times, my first reaction is that it is much better arranged, recorded, and produced than those early leaked versions seemed to indicate. There are a few nice moments, but the album is mediocre. Having said that, a mediocre album by talented, seasoned pros can still be enjoyable to listen to. The songs are ok, the playing us good (except for Steve's time in a few spots and JD's intonation in a couple more), but the arrangements seem unfinished and demo-like. I'm delighted to see the good reviews in the press and the brisk early sales. I hope this album advances the band's standing, and all the early signs indicate it will.
    Last edited by NotTheMama; 07-24-2014 at 02:51 PM.
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  13. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by aith01 View Post
    It was a cesspool quite some time before that, IMHO.

    Let's learn from it, and try to keep this thread going in a positive direction.
    +1

    Always amazes me the bravado and rudeness that abounds when folks post on the Net. You guys are big boys, act like one. If you don't, I'm going to tell your moms. ;-)

    Happy you found a H & E c.d. to listen to.

    Welcome to p.e.s The YES Man. Glad you found your way here.

    That Sean just has too much common sense. ;-)

  14. #39
    Member gearHed289's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean View Post
    I don't really think so. It was a bloated mess at 150+ pages, a reboot was in order regardless. It's funny how people can take all these swipes at the band and then don't like it much when one of them comes around and defends themselves. It's par for the course in the 'net age.
    Well said!

    As for the album - I'm still debating just downloading the 4 songs I want, or buying the whole thing. $4 vs $10. Hmmm... I am a "physical product" kind of guy.

    The first three tracks are just too flaccid for my taste, along with It Was All We Knew. I'm a little on the fence with In a World of Our Own, but it's SO "Chris", and I always like to hear his voice featured prominently.

    Really looking forward to seeing them tomorrow night in Madison! It's been since Union for me.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveSly View Post
    I pre-ordered it from Amazon, but still has not arrived yet. I am hoping I get it before seeing them in Chicago Saturday night.
    My Amazon order came with a free "auto-rip" (download). I'll be at the Saturday show too!!

  16. #41
    Count me as another who really likes the production on this album. Especially the drums, which are matter-of-fact, natural. Every snare hit sounds different than the one before it. They're the antithesis of the inside-the-kick-drum sound that Hugh Padgham and Genesis pioneered on Abacab and has dominated all rock music since. Often on the classic period Yes albums, I got the sense that they were trying to get a sound out of White's snare that wasn't there, placing it up front and giving it a sludgy thwomp that always compared very unfavorably with Bruford's "tang." Here, White sounds relaxed (which some don't like), buoyant and dynamic.

    Squire's bass playing settles into this space beautifully. No growling Rickenbacker, but a warm carpet of sound with a well-thought out sense of melodic structure.

    Sure, Howe is making a sound a lot less like Jimmy Page and a lot more like Wes Montgomery these days. The overall sound is very beautiful to my ears. Downes makes some silly sounds here and there. He's not the most distinguished Yes keyboardist by a long shot, but he's not getting in the way. One nice thing is that keyboard chording doesn't blare in sync with drum punches, it supports the melodic instruments.

    The comments on Howe's rhythmic timing need to be addressed as well. One of the things musicians learn over time is to break the metronome and tease the pulse. In a lot of groove based music it's desirable to play behind the beat instead of directly on it. Howe has always let his tempo breathe with the music. For those who spend a lot of their time with tech metal, it sounds like mistakes.

    I get the rare sense listening to this album of being in a musical space with breathable air. Transparent and clear. And yes, it's a Roger Dean-y space with flying fish and teal rocks. For the guy who is concerned that "every instrument sounds quieter than all the others" (or whatever), welcome to the world of un-squashed recordings. The mastering engineer deserves a trophy.

    As for the music on the album. It's generous rather than demanding. It's not hopping up and down on your leg trying to be your friend. It sounds great to me and is very fun to listen to. Caveat: almost nothing from Union through Fly from Here has appealed to me.

  17. #42
    Member Brian Griffin's Avatar
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    I believe it was Sean who mentioned a DVD from this tour - is there any further information?

    Didn't notice any cameras at my show in DC

    BG
    "When Yes appeared on stage, it was like, the gods appearing from the heavens, deigning to play in front of the people."

  18. #43
    Moderator Sean's Avatar
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    It is a DVD of the last tour where they did TYA, CTTE and G4T1.

  19. #44
    Member Brian Griffin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean View Post
    It is a DVD of the last tour where they did TYA, CTTE and G4T1.
    "Still good", but disappointing : )

    Thanks

    BG
    "When Yes appeared on stage, it was like, the gods appearing from the heavens, deigning to play in front of the people."

  20. #45
    Moderator Sean's Avatar
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    Fragile-fan-boy, huh?

  21. #46
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    All of these positive reviews have me wondering if I need to have my hearing checked.

    I'm not a "no Jon/no Yes" guy - quite the opposite.

    I don't care about labels.

    I'm not an audiophile/sound quality snob.

    I love Howe's albums with Paul Sutin.

    But I flat-out hate H&E. There's absolutely nothing that I like about it. To call it a snoozefest would overrate it.

    And I want to like it so badly.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  22. #47
    Moderator Sean's Avatar
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    Well, saying it that way beats being a dick about it like some were in that thread that got a fork stuck in it yesterday.

  23. #48
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean View Post
    Well, saying it that way beats being a dick about it like some were in that thread that got a fork stuck in it yesterday.
    All opinions and reviews should be welcome here. Constant praise and fanboyism is both boring and irritating. But you can criticize a work without being obnoxious about it, too.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  24. #49
    Moderator Sean's Avatar
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    Exactly. All opinions and reviews are welcome here. We grade on articulation, not content.

  25. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Sean View Post
    Exactly. All opinions and reviews are welcome here. We grade on articulation, not content.
    Ummmm, zbop?

    Last edited by Sean; 07-24-2014 at 03:50 PM.
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