as many have said, this is a great disc!
i also appreciate Ernie's posts here. they are always well reasoned and articulate.
as many have said, this is a great disc!
i also appreciate Ernie's posts here. they are always well reasoned and articulate.
I'll definitely have to pick up a copy: so far, from what I have heard from this album, I have liked everything -- Its definitely on target for my personal musical tastes
I'm glad this is featured because honestly I would never have given a band called 'Bad Dog U' a chance otherwise-just doesn't sound like my thing. But the music is really good.
That damn dog has been staring at me at the top of the page for three days now, so I felt compelled to dig this out and have a fresh listen.
I like this album, but unlike many of you who have posted, this isn't a top favorite of mine. With fresh ears, I did hear a few thing that had eluded me before, which was nice. I agree with the Henderson/Tribal Tech comparison, and my wife said, "it sounded like Kenso." But to my ears, this is just a little more on the slick/melodic, dare I say "Fuzaky," side than much of that stuff. The album definitely has it's moments, but overall it lacks the aggressiveness and intensity that for me characterizes the best Fusion.
I also thought it was a little long in the tooth, so I made a CDR that eliminates tracks 6-7, reducing the album to a more lean and mean 45-ish minutes. Even with that, I found my attention drifting a bit while listening tonight. The playing is stellar all around, it's just the compositional approach that doesn't intersect perfectly with my admittedly finicky tastes.
All that said, I do enjoy the album, and if BDU ever made a second one, it would be auto-buy. I'd just hope for a little more aggressiveness and intensity.
Bill
Great stuff...Is there another one coming?
No Pride AKA Ernie is a member here. His earlier comment refers to Bad Dog U as his former band.Originally Posted by adewolf
"It's a very pleasant surprise and an honor to find my (former) band's album as a featured CD here, so thanks, Duncan!"
I'm certain he spends much of his time now touring with Gary Sinise and the Lt. Dan Band.
This is a fantastic album. I really like that it keeps the strong emotion and composition intact rather than resorting to an overabundance of aggression and intensity like so many feel the need to do. Definitely one of my very favorite fusion albums of the past decade!
By the way, I never knew No Pride was Ernie from Bad Dog U! Talk about feeling out of the loop.
I remember the first time I heard this album I thought the same thing, or rather, noticed how nearly mainstream some of it sounded to me. But all too often, a lot of instrumental metal or fusion jazz eschews melody for showboating; you know, the 360degree dunk for the umpteenth time gets less impressive and is still only 2 points. Sure, there's a certain degree of difficulty in technique driven music but for me, it's the melodies and songcraft that stick in my head. Bad Dog U has both to spare, but yeah, prolly isn't going to scratch that hardcore fusion itch for some. This isn't a muso's album.
Thanks for sharing this, Duncan. I never would have thought this would be something I'd take an interest in, given the name.
Actually reminds me a lot of the Flower Kings when they stretch out on one of their jazzy excursions. Really nice stuff here.
I agree with this 100%. Most of the Fusion I listen to is really strong melodically and while the instrumentalists often "go for it," the albums are rarely about shredding. I'm not a fan of the heavier/metal side of Fusion, most of that stuff leaves me really cold, though I respect that those dudes can play their butts off. Maybe the closest I get to that kind of stuff is Electric Outlet, which I like but isn't a top favorite. For me, BDU is in comparison with the more melodic fusion, stuff like Kenso, Helmet of Gnats, Igzit Nine, Antiheroe, and classic stuff like RtF, Bruford, Etna, early Mahavishnu, Beck's fusion albums, and even DiMeoloa's solo albums, which I don't find nearly as "shreddy" as some here do. And many others in this vein.
There's moments on the BDU album that compare very favorably to this stuff. But overall, for me, the BDU isn't trying to do quite the same thing. I agree with you, they are perhaps reaching for a broader appeal, which is absolutely 100% fine. But as a result it doesn't resonate with me quite the way these other albums do, and it's not because these other albums are 40+ minutes of "slam dunk" moments. A lot of it has to do with the melodic choices made and the compositions themselves as much as the soloing.
BDU is just a bit too "polite" to me to be a top favorite, but I've owned the album since I bought it in 2004, and in my collection it will happily stay. Hope that clarifies a bit.
Bill
I'm a fan!
I bought this right around the time it was released and liked it right away.
Jazz Rock that leans to the Rock side is always welcome in Chez LP's
Why is it whenever someone mentions an artist that was clearly progressive (yet not the Symph weenie definition of Prog) do certain people feel compelled to snort "thats not Prog" like a whiny 5th grader?
Don't you mean AKC Ernie.
NEVER UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF STUPID PEOPLE IN LARGE GROUPS!
Is this the best, most-rewarding-to-Ernie way to buy this? If so, then that's how I'll go. Ashamed to admit that I never picked this one up.
Between this and Sean's new one, I'm looking forward to some good, new stuff from PE's finest.
Don't you mean AKC Ernie.
Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally
No disputing your points, but probably unlike a lot of other PE'ers, I appreciate a good balance between aggressive playing and a slick / polished sound (particularly in Fusion). This is why I love this CD. I can appreciate the musicianship and compositions but it's pleasing enough on the ears that my wife enjoys (most of) it, as well (she leans WAY more toward the smooooth end of jazz tastes - Kenny G, David Benoit, etc...).
I've bought a lot of great CDs over the years from musicians who are regulars on this board. While I don't feel like any have been total duds, some I've enjoyed way more than others. This BDU album is probably my favorite of all of them. Despite the fact it was created over a lengthy period of time (iirc), it's just consistently satisfying throughout.
That's fantastic, glad it meshes with your tastes, and your wife's! I think you understand some of the elements that make it a not so perfect fit for me, but I'm truly happy that others whose tastes are different enjoy it!
Bill
I am most definitely a fan of this disc.....I know Ernie's said that this is an "ex-band," and in previous discussions here it seems that the chances of another BDU disc are slim....but hey, Ernie, I'd buy a new one, for sure.
Hey, all! Thanks again for the flattering comments; I'm so glad that so many of you dig this disc! I didn't realize how many PE members were familiar with it until this thread, so that's been a most pleasant discovery!
Sorry to disappoint those of you that were hoping for a follow up, but I'm doubtful that it'll happen. First and foremost is money; it takes a lot of it to make an album of comparable quality and sometimes I wonder how we were ever able to put this one out. But it's not just that... I'm not so sure I want to write stuff in this style anymore, or to record the "leftover" material that didn't make it to this disc (there's enough of that to fill another album, but I just don't dig my old stuff so much anymore). At some point in the future, I might make an album under my own name, with different musicians playing on different tracks. Even then, I have to get over my musical identity crises. I like playing different types of music; I've even given some thought to making two albums; one instrumental, guitar-centric rock one (along the lines of The Steve Morse Band and/or Vai/Satriani kind of stuff)... and one straight-ahead jazz album that would be somewhere between bebop and more modern styles, probably with a bit of Brazilian thrown in. All original material, of course! We'll see...
For a small consolation in the meantime, I can offer this unreleased Bad Dog U track. It was never mastered, so it doesn't have the sheen that the album had, but I do like this tune and sometimes I wish I had included it on the album:
https://soundcloud.com/no-pride
"Fuzaky"... OUCH! I don't think even Kenny G. would be happy with that label! But I think I can understand what you're saying, at least to some extent. For starters, the 3 tunes that I didn't write were written by our keyboard player, Rick Snyder. He never listened to much prog or hardcore fusion like I did; he comes more from the Dave Grusin/Lee Ritenhour school of slickish L.A. funk/jazz/fusion. When he started playing my music, he picked up the vibe of it and tried to write music that was compatible, but there's definitely traces of the kind of stuff he was rooted in there. It didn't bother me; I thought he was a really good writer and he made a good foil for me... between our two styles, I felt there was more scope to the overall sound.
Then there's me and the way I wrote for BDU. Anybody here who has read enough of my posts knows I'm a fusion fan, but I've also always loved not only prog and jazz, but clever pop music as well. I've made a living for 35 years playing pop/rock cover tunes, so I think it's a part of my musical DNA and that influence came through. Honestly, I wasn't sure what musical category people would label BDU as. I knew there was some fusion in there, but I didn't think of it as necessarily being a fusion band. It was a conscious decision on my part to NOT write fast unison licks. It's not that I don't like that kind of thing (I do), but to me, it's become a bit of a fusion cliché and I just didn't feel that I had anything unique to add by way of writing in that sort of style. I like a good melody that people can remember and that's often what I was going for. My melodies can be a bit on the simple side, but I always tried to have harmonically and rhythmically interesting things happening behind them. I think I succeeded some of the time.Anyway, nothing is for everyone!
Scott, CD Baby is a good place to get the CD... if it's true that they have it in stock like they say. I don't trust them like I did when Derek Sivers (?) was in charge. You can download it at iTunes and Greg at Syn-phonic may still have some copies.
Last edited by No Pride; 07-21-2014 at 05:34 PM.
Good response Ernie. It never actually dawned on me about the two writers, but now that you mention it it's fairly obvious. I also find it inserting that you say that you "I didn't think of it as necessarily being a fusion band." I was never totally comfortable putting BDU in that camp either. Not that it really matters, but I think it accounts to some extent why this was never among my "top Fusion releases."
"Fuzaky"... OUCH! I don't think even Kenny G. would be happy with that label! But I think I can understand what you're saying, at least to some extent. For starters, the 3 tunes that I didn't write were written by our keyboard player, Rick Snyder. He never listened to much prog or hardcore fusion like I did; he comes more from the Dave Grusin/Lee Ritenhour school of slickish L.A. funk/jazz/fusion. When he started playing my music, he picked up the vibe of it and tried to write music that was compatible, but there's definitely traces of the kind of stuff he was rooted in there. It didn't bother me; I thought he was a really good writer and he made a good foil for me... between our two styles, I felt there was more scope to the overall sound.
Then there's me and the way I wrote for BDU. Anybody here who has read enough of my posts knows I'm a fusion fan, but I've also always loved not only prog and jazz, but clever pop music as well. I've made a living for 35 years playing pop/rock cover tunes, so I think it's a part of my musical DNA and that influence came through. Honestly, I wasn't sure what musical category people would label BDU as. I knew there was some fusion in there, but I didn't think of it as necessarily being a fusion band. It was a conscious decision on my part to NOT write fast unison licks. It's not that I don't like that kind of thing (I do), but to me, it's become a bit of a fusion cliché and I just didn't feel that I had anything unique to add by way of writing in that sort of style. I like a good melody that people can remember and that's often what I was going for. My melodies can be a bit on the simple side, but I always tried to have harmonically and rhythmically interesting things happening behind them. I think I succeeded some of the time.
Obviously the band has fans, and I do like the album, just with a few reservations. Ultimately if you're happy with it, that's all that matters. Not sure how much scratch you'd need to raise, but I'd contribute to a BDU Kickstarter campaign. I'll bet others here would too.
Bill
What ever happened to the DVD from your other band Ernie?
is that for download Ernie?
if so, how?
Why is it whenever someone mentions an artist that was clearly progressive (yet not the Symph weenie definition of Prog) do certain people feel compelled to snort "thats not Prog" like a whiny 5th grader?
It wasn't, but as of now it is. Just click "download."
THANX!
really nice stuff...
cant wait to hear what you create next time bro
Why is it whenever someone mentions an artist that was clearly progressive (yet not the Symph weenie definition of Prog) do certain people feel compelled to snort "thats not Prog" like a whiny 5th grader?
Chevere (de Chicago)? Our MVP, Howard Levy didn't like the fact that one of the two piano microphones wasn't working. And that's all I have to say about that.
We're still talking about a second album. Some of us think it should be all live, some of us don't. It may end up being half and half, but we won't repeat any tunes from the first album. Will we actually get around to doing it? Definitely maybe.
Oh, for those that don't know, Chevere is a 9 piece latin jazz/rock band that I've been in for over 30 years. It doesn't sound much like BDU at all, even though we do a couple of my tunes.
www.cheveredechicago.com
That's right neighborly of you, Bill! Seriously, I do appreciate it!
If I'm happy with it? I have regrets; I think it's par for the course. The biggest one is the over use of synths. Rick, the keyboard player agrees with me. If there's ever a follow up (I didn't say "never"), I think I'll stick with the basic food groups of keys: piano, organ, clavinet, Rhodes, Moog and maybe a splash of Tron-like stuff. But in general, I still like the album.
Glad you liked it, LP!
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