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Thread: The Clash

  1. #1

    The Clash

    Let's talk about The Clash! Anyone like them?! What's the "essential" albums? I can't really afford to buy any music right now (saving for coming events this autumn), but VH-1 Classic has been showing this documentary about how the band fell apart and it's got me thinking I should own something by them.

    I see there's several boxsets out. One has the UK editions of their first five albums. Another box is all the band's singles and EP's, in a 19 disc (!!!) set. The third boxset, called Sound System, is apparently the first five albums plus most (but not quite all) of the non album material, plus various ancillary recordings, demos, live tracks, etc, plus a DVD of live footage and all the band's videos (just in case you didn't get sick of seeing Rock The Casbah every 20 minutes on MTV back in the day).

    So is all the band's material that interesting? I know there's certain songs that I like, such as Tommy Gun, Train In Vain, Rock The Casbah, This Is Radio Clash, Should I Stay Or Should I Go, and probably a couple of others. Now, I know This Is Radio Clash was a non-album track, so to get that I'd have to buy either a best of (which I'm loathe to do, especially since some of them seem to have the track mixed up with it's B-side, which was called Radio Clash) or one of the boxsets, either the 19 disc singles set or Sound System. I think most of the other songs I like from The Clash are on their regular albums, and therefore can be bought individually, if one were to take that route.

    So the question is: what's the level of consistency on the regular albums? Is there enough worthwhile music there to make it worth buying either of the two boxsets with the albums in it? I have a feeling if I buy one or two of the albums individually, I'm probably going to end up wanting to own all of them, so I might as well pony up for all the ancillary stuff too, right? What's the 411, guys?!

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    The Clash are really the only punk band I have any time for. That's probably because it was intelligent punk, and actually much of their stuff was hardly punk at all.

    Apart from their "biggies", the only album I know well is Sandinista! which I own. To say it's inconsistent is putting it mildly, but somehow it hardly seems to matter, there are so many good songs there that the missteps - Mensforth Hill for example - are easy to tolerate.Songs like The Magnificent Seven, Something About England, Somebody Got Murdered, The Call-up and Charlie Don't Surf are just great songs, never mind about what genre to label them.

    I enjoy Sandinista! when I listen to it, but I don't feel a burning need to get other Clash albums. Not saying it's better or worse than their other albums, just that one Clash triple album is probably all I need.

    By the way, I'll be the mug - what's a "411"?
    Last edited by bob_32_116; 07-12-2014 at 12:14 AM.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by bob_32_116 View Post

    By the way, I'll be the mug - what's a "411"?
    Sorry, I keep forgetting not everyone is US based here. 411 is the phone number you dial when you need directory assistance, like if you need a particular telephone number or whatever and you're just too damn lazy to look it up in the phone book (or the internet, these days). So "What's the 411" means "What's the information".

  4. #4
    Member davis's Avatar
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    I'm a fan. Lots of great performance video on Youtube. I "only" have London Calling, Sandinista & Super Black Market Clash. Used to have a handful of concert bootlegs but got rid of them at some point. IMO you can't go wrong with any album but 'Cut the Crap', which I haven't heard but which was Joe and 4 musicians he hired. I don't have the first 2 albums, but there are songs on them that I love.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by davis View Post
    I'm a fan. Lots of great performance video on Youtube. I "only" have London Calling, Sandinista & Super Black Market Clash. Used to have a handful of concert bootlegs but got rid of them at some point. IMO you can't go wrong with any album but 'Cut the Crap', which I haven't heard but which was Joe and 4 musicians he hired. I don't have the first 2 albums, but there are songs on them that I love.
    Well, Paul Simonon was still in The Clash at the time they made Cut The Crap, though who knows how much he actually played on the finished album. The documentary that VH-1 Classic has been showing (called The Rise And Fall Of The Clash) is mainly about the circumstances that led up to the making of Cut The Crap. It's not really an authoritative depiction of the band's career, mainly focusing on how the band rehired their original manager Bernie Rhodes (after a couple years of being managed by Blackhill Enterprises, yes the same people who managed Pink Floyd during the Syd era), and what followed, ie the recording mixing and remixing of Combat Rock, all the strife that followed the success of that album, etc.

    Depending on which Clash associate you ask, Bernie Rhodes was either "the greatest manager ever and a key figure in The Clash story" or a low down double dealing back stabbing larcenous worm who should be ripped up into little bitty pieces and buried alive (as per Hanover Fiste's description of Captain Lincoln F, Sterrn in the Heavy Metal movie).

    Apparently, Bernie manipulated Joe into sacking Mick Jones (though Joe claims in one archival interview that part of why Mick was fired was because Mick started saying things like "Well, my lawyer says we should...", to which Joe replied, "Well go write songs with your lawyer, then!"). Apparently, by the time that Joe realized he'd made a horrible mistake (allegedly to the point of allegedly trailing Mick to whichever island he had gone on holiday, and spending a week trying to find him), Mick had already formed Big Audio Dynamite and started working on the first BAD album.

    Anyway, so the story goes that Cut The Crap was basically produced by Bernie, under a pseudonym, and he basically overdubbed synths and used drum machines on most of the tracks (even though they had hired a perfectly competent drummer to replace Terry Chimes). According to Wikipedia, Joe disowned most of Cut The Crap, and judging from the documentary, most of the rest of the "new" Clash weren't and remain unhappy about it to this day. The film more or less ends with commenting that just weeks before Joe Strummer passed away, he and Mick finally shared a stage together again, for the first time since the US Festival performance in 1983. So the two apparently made amends with each other before it was too late, which is kinda cool.

    There's also a lot of interesting side stories, about how Topper Headon ended up being replaced by his predecessor Terry Chimes, how Terry ended up leaving the band, how they ended up hiring an alleged prog rock geek to replace Terry (actually, one of the new guitarists was also allegedly a prog rock fan, as well), how they did one last big tour, etc. Interesting film, though I think I liked better the other documentary I saw about a decade ago (where either Mick or Joe notes the irony of The Clash playing Career Opportunities in front of an audience of 60,000 at Shea Stadium, when they opened for The Who there).
    Last edited by GuitarGeek; 07-12-2014 at 01:09 AM.

  6. #6
    All Things Must Pass spellbound's Avatar
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    Not a huge fan, but recognize their talent. My CD collection includes The Clash and London Calling.
    We're trying to build a monument to show that we were here
    It won't be visible through the air
    And there won't be any shade to cool the monument to prove that we were here. - Gene Parsons, 1973

  7. #7
    I love them now. at the school i was hippy diggin gong.

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    Personally I find them a much more hit-and-miss proposition than the lavish hype makes out- funnily enough the critics actually make that clear themselves by generally only giving high praise to two of their albums and their singles. I like the 'London Calling' album a lot- perhaps the best album any UK 'punk' group made- but otherwise it's mostly specific tracks like 'Bankrobber' for me.

    Going on what you mention, I'd go for that one album and 'The Singles' which has all the tracks you mention (and 'Bankrobber', which like 'This Is Radio Clash' was non-album) before diving headlong into the catalogue. You can always do that later.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by bob_32_116 View Post
    The Clash are really the only punk band I have any time for. That's probably because it was intelligent punk, and actually much of their stuff was hardly punk at all.
    Then you need to be listening to some Wire, man!

    I enjoy Sandinista! when I listen to it, but I don't feel a burning need to get other Clash albums. Not saying it's better or worse than their other albums, just that one Clash triple album is probably all I need.
    I'm probably a bigger fan than that, but it's hard to argue with that. There's some dross on Sandinista! but no worse than on any other triple album.

    I tend to reach for London Calling more nowadays when I'm in the mood.

    There's a good live album from a few years back, too.
    http://www.amazon.com/Live-at-Shea-S...The+Clash+live

    And, holy shit, that big box set looks awesome:
    http://www.amazon.com/Sound-System-T...+Clash+box+set

    But I'd probably stick with just the five albums box set. I've got a feeling I might order that big one, though . . .
    I want to dynamite your mind with love tonight.

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    Member davis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    Paul Simonon...Topper Headon ...
    I didn't know Paul was in the band at the CTC point, but during a Clash documentary (I forget the title), Topper publicly apologized to the rest of the band for fucking himself up with heroin and not being there for the band.

  11. #11
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob_32_116 View Post
    The Clash are really the only punk band I have any time for. That's probably because it was intelligent punk, and actually much of their stuff was hardly punk at all.


    I enjoy Sandinista! when I listen to it, but I don't feel a burning need to get other Clash albums. Not saying it's better or worse than their other albums, just that one Clash triple album is probably all I need.
    Well their first two albums are definitely punk AFAIAC

    But yeah, by the time of their third album London Calling, can't really call them "pure punk"

    But you need to have London Calling, because it's a much more even album, with much less filler than Sandinista
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

  12. #12
    Jazzbo manqué Mister Triscuits's Avatar
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    Love London Calling, Sandinista! (the Clash's White Album, with the dub stuff being the equivalent of "Revolution 9") and Combat Rock. There's a lot of good stuff on the first album, too, but Give 'em Enough Rope never did anything for me.

  13. #13
    Member davis's Avatar
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    I heard Michael Stipe call 'Automatic for the People' a punk album 'because it was totally different from anything else being released at that time'. So, was he being facetious? Does music have to be fast & aggressive to be 'punk'?

  14. #14
    Member davis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Triscuits View Post
    Give 'em Enough Rope never did anything for me.
    I like Safe European Home and Tommy Gun. that's about it on that album

  15. #15
    Gave em' a few spins in the 70's and 80's, but couldn't really get on board. A lot of it seemed weak to the point of feeling embarrassed for them. The Ruts sounded a bit similar but had better chops greater velocity and just plain rocked harder, (I get that the Clash often wasn't really aiming to rock). It's sort of like comparing Metallica, And Justice For All to Pantera, Cowboys From Hell & Vulgar Display of Power). Pantera *&^%$$!! crushed em'!
    ... could seem sacrilegious or like trolling until you put the records on.

  16. #16
    The Clash are a great band, no matter what you call it. London Calling is like their Exile On Main Street- It incorporates more of the roots of rock. Sandanista is worth listening to 'as is' just to hear it's mind-expanding sprawl. A collection of their early singles would be great if there is one; if not, the first album is good all the way through.

  17. #17
    I find it interesting everyone is avoiding discussing Combat Rock. I remember it once being described as the "sell out" album, because suddenly they were big on MTV. But dammit, Rock The Casbah is still a great song. And you gotta dig the image in the video of the Arab and the Jewish guy (presumably an Israeli) united by rock n roll!

  18. #18
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    Love London Calling - Jimmy Jazz has to be one of my favorite songs. Sounds like it was made up on the spot.

    I also love the song Medicine Show from the first Big Audio Dynamite album.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    I find it interesting everyone is avoiding discussing Combat Rock. I remember it once being described as the "sell out" album, because suddenly they were big on MTV. But dammit, Rock The Casbah is still a great song. And you gotta dig the image in the video of the Arab and the Jewish guy (presumably an Israeli) united by rock n roll!
    I think possibly Combat Rock was such a "normal" album after the adventurous nature of Sandinista! that amongst the fans it earned the dreaded tag of "mainstream". It is what it is: A fairly safe radio-friendly album with some pretty decent songs. Getting one of the songs used in a Levi's ad didn't hurt any.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bake 1 View Post
    Gave em' a few spins in the 70's and 80's, but couldn't really get on board. A lot of it seemed weak to the point of feeling embarrassed for them. The Ruts sounded a bit similar but had better chops greater velocity and just plain rocked harder, (I get that the Clash often wasn't really aiming to rock). It's sort of like comparing Metallica, And Justice For All to Pantera, Cowboys From Hell & Vulgar Display of Power). Pantera *&^%$$!! crushed em'!
    ... could seem sacrilegious or like trolling until you put the records on.
    They did improve a lot when they brought Topper Headon in- to make an inappropriate comparison, it's like the big difference made when Phil Collins came into Genesis! Their earliest recordings are pretty sloppy- I mean a band like The Ramones were pretty musically together and tight.

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