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Thread: Tatsuya Yoshida (Ruins, Koenjihyakkei, Korekyojin, and a dozen other things)

  1. #26
    Member Zeuhlmate's Avatar
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    He is not a jazzdrummer at all, as Christian Vander basicly is.

  2. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Udi Koomran View Post
    Yoshida told me he can't undetstand why people compare his drumming to Vander Charles Heyward is his main insspiration
    You can clearly hear the Hayward influence in Yoshida's playing if you listen to the former's input with Quiet Sun, some of the Camberwell Now recordings and particularly Hayward's work in improvisation (Pierre Vervloesem's Grosso Modo etc.).

    And it's true that Yoshida isn't really a "jazz" drummer, a fact that makes his playing with Satoko Fujii all the more interesting (check Zephyros).
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  3. #28
    Saw RUINS opening for ACID MOTHERS TEMPLE some ten years ago. I lost my head over this guy...
    Macht das ohr auf!

    COSMIC EYE RECORDS

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Udi Koomran View Post
    Yoshida told me he can't undetstand why people compare his drumming to Vander Charles Heyward is his main insspiration
    Interesting!
    I was lucky to see his show with Charles Heyward at the Serpentine Gallery a few years ago. A set each from Heyward and Yoshida, and a dual improv to finish!

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    IMHO, there was never anyone like him in rock music - ever.
    This guy is spectacularly gifted, both creatively and technically, and he's NOT an educated, trained or at least "scholared" musician. The fact that he still performs with high profiles that indeed ARE (such as Satoko Fuji, the genius female pianist/composer/improvisor), various "serious" art ensembles and orchestras who deal in extremely demanding musical terrain, should tell more than sufficient.

    Of course, most of his own music is much too "eccentric" and overtly progressive to ever warrant any recognition with the usual "prog-crowd", but all the better for it. Most prog-metal drummers would go into hiding if they heard Yoshida.

    The Ruins Alone clips on YT usually brings every "who's the best"-discussion to a sudden halt.
    I didn't know he had no formal training. It makes sense though because he really doesn't sound like anyone else out there and I am beginning to have my doubts that he can play a straight beat - I think "Hail" off Stonehenge is as close as he ever gets. I've been listening to a ton of Yoshida and Autechre lately and it's occured to me that there is actually something of a similarity there. They both write the type of music that can easily go over your head unless you really dig beneath the surface and really analyze how everything plays off each other - the difference is that Yoshida does this live. Also they both seem to work best if you're willing to rewire your brain a little. I don't know if I'm more impressed with the fact that he can imagine all this stuff of that he can actually play it. I've tried to map out some Ruins and Koenji stuff and it's ridiculous - even something simple like "B.U.G." takes a stupid amount of dexterity.

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  7. #32
    Member TheH's Avatar
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    Koenjihyakkei, Korekyojin and Bondage Fruit are all marvelous. Ruins is good fun for one or two songs, otherwise it is total bullsh*t.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheH View Post
    Ruins is good fun for one or two songs, otherwise it is total bullsh*t.
    Wait... what? Burning Stone by Ruins is probably my favorite album he ever worked on. Some parts of Hyderomastgroningem are totally brilliant as well. To each their own, I guess.

    - Matt

  9. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by JAMOOL View Post
    he really doesn't sound like anyone else out there and I am beginning to have my doubts that he can play a straight beat - I think "Hail" off Stonehenge is as close as he ever gets.
    There's this quite "famous" quote by John Zorn on Yoshida, going something like "[...] this guy even breathes in 5/4"!

    But there are "straighter" beats in some of his playing with Korekyojin (especially the earliest stuff) and on Hoppy Kamiyama's Meaningnessless [sic] album, for instance. In the latter case it probably has something to do with the strictness of those large band arrangements, prompting Yoshida to keep more in track.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  10. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    But there are "straighter" beats in some of his playing with Korekyojin (especially the earliest stuff) and on Hoppy Kamiyama's Meaningnessless [sic] album, for instance. In the latter case it probably has something to do with the strictness of those large band arrangements, prompting Yoshida to keep more in track.
    His playing on Lars Hollmer's Sola proves he can also be restrained and more simple in a very impressive manner

  11. #36
    Boo! walt's Avatar
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    There's a DVD-Audio release out of more improvs by Yoshida and guitarist Kazuhisa Uchihashi.Recorded live in 2004-2012.36 tracks.;titled Improvisations 4.I'm gonna pass on this.I have 2 of the previous 3 Improvisations cds(multi cd sets) and that's enough for me...........for now.
    "please do not understand me too quickly"-andre gide

  12. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by walt View Post
    There's a DVD-Audio release out of more improvs by Yoshida and guitarist Kazuhisa Uchihashi. [...] I'm gonna pass on this.I have 2 of the previous 3 Improvisations cds(multi cd sets) and that's enough for me...........for now.
    I've got so much Yoshida stuff that I couldn't possibly ever get through it all without losing track of things. There's just such an incredible abundance of music and sound there.

    But to be fair, Kazuhisa Uchihashi has to be heard (or seen!) to be believed; he's one of the "magic three" Jap guitarists (along with Tsuneo Imahori of Tipographica and numerous - and Kido Natsuki, of course), and as a guitarist myself I doubt if there's anyone besides arguably Mick Barr or Nels Cline who has even come close to making such an impression on me these past 15+ years. I saw him once with Altered States, and it changed my perception of the guitar as instrument forever - much in the sense that I've heard from people who witnessed Glenn Phillips or John Fahey in the 70s. There's no end to Uchihashi's abilities when it comes to actually exploring the axe and make use of whatever he finds.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  13. #38
    Boo! walt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post

    Kazuhisa Uchihashi Altered States
    Bluffs,Bluffs ii and especially,Live In Tokyo, are Altered States cds that are state of the art electric trio improv(spontaneous composition).Telepathic interplay that, at times, leave me slack jawed in amazement.Too bad there are no clips from these cds available, afaik.
    "please do not understand me too quickly"-andre gide

  14. #39
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    Sounds very interesting...whats a good place to start with that guy?

    I haven't heard the stuff you mentioned; when I made that comment I was listening to his first solo album Magaibatsu and just noticed that the drum tracks are always more complex than they appear, even when the drums aren't the focal point. I think the point Zorn is making is spot on - he makes playing in odd time signatures (sometimes against the melody) feel so natural. In Ruins, a lot of times it feels like he's just freaking out on the kit but there's actually some odd logic to it. He really does seem superhuman. That said I guess if he's doing band stuff where he ISN'T writing material I can see why he'd need to tone it down a little..

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAMOOL View Post
    Sounds very interesting...whats a good place to start with that guy?
    .
    I'm only familiar with Yoshida based on the duet cds with Kazuhisa Uchihashi.Other posters here are far more more knowledgable about Yoshida's discography and work than I.
    "please do not understand me too quickly"-andre gide

  16. #41
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    oh no - I'm talking about Kazuhisa Uchihashi

    though your post came in before mine so I think i'll just start there

  17. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by JAMOOL View Post
    Sounds very interesting...whats a good place to start with that guy?
    I'd say ALL the Altered States albums I've heard (about five, I think) have something significant going for them, but if I was to choose I'd pick Alteres States 4, recorded live at the Knitting Factory (N.Y.) sometime during the early 90s. It features one short and two lengthy pieces where the band's concept of "aleatoric" rock comes out in full force and glory, and the sound is outstanding.

    Their approach was a sort of middle route between Fred Frith's Massacre and the improvising KCrimson of '73/74, with a little Sonny Sharrock or perhaps even James Blood Ulmer antics added. They'd have arranged "theme-heads", sometimes very intricate ones, which they would execute by way of a rather meticulous set of either played or physically signalled hints, venturing into free form improv and impressively tight networks of chords, rhythms and sounds - to the point where It'd be almost impossible to discern the two. They also had a couple of great collab CDs released, of which I find the live Cafe 9:15 with esteemed saxist Ned Rothenberg the most inspiring. This is all improv, though.

    And btw, Altered States bassist Nasuno Mitsuru is also in Korekyojin, who share some of the more "composed" aspects with the old AS (whom I believe dropped the more arranged parts during the early 00s).
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  18. #43
    Boo! walt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAMOOL View Post
    oh no - I'm talking about Kazuhisa Uchihashi
    Gotcha.I'm acquainted with Uchihashi's playing through a couple of solo cds, a few duet cds with Tatsuya Yoshida and his most recent recordings with Altered States.I first heard Uchihashi on a FMP duet cd with the late Hans Reichel(the other half of that cd were duets with Reichel and Fred Frith).I recommend Bluffs ii and/or Live In Tokyo.Bluffs ii is a studio session from 2005.
    "please do not understand me too quickly"-andre gide

  19. #44
    Koenji is just killer.

    I'm not lazy. I just work so fast I'm always done.

  20. #45
    I like most of the Altered States - have not hear the Live In Tokyo on ( its on my list though)
    Here is a good example from the first one

    https://soundcloud.com/gingers-studio/altered-states

  21. #46
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    Listening to Hyderomastgroningem on a good system = mind blown. I've come to realize that it's the interplay between the two that really makes that one. There's a lot of riffing on those odd off-time melodies that sounds like improv but there's just no way that can be true. I loved the album at first but there are all these moments I'm picking up on where the bass will start to morph into something else and the drums sort of follow along in an inverted way, like his drum patterns are constantly evolving with the lead. I don't really know how to describe it. I was going to make a comparison to Autechre only to find out that I already made it three months ago.

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve F. View Post
    I am particularly fond of Korekyojinn, but everything Yoshida-san does is worth a careful listen.
    That's how I roll as well. Love Korekyojinn and Koenji .... well and just about anything else he does. As for "best drummer" discussions I only have two names, his and Chambers.
    Duncan's going to make a Horns Emoticon!!!

  23. #48
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  24. #49
    Yoshida is a phenomenal drummer and musician/composer. I am only familiar with his work on the four Koenjiehyakkei CDs, the three Daimonji discs, and Hoppy Kamiyama's album "A Meaningful Meaninglessness" (which is absolutely killer, by the way). I'd love to branch out into more of his projects, but Ruins seems a bit too avant garde for me at this point.

    He sounds like a force of nature behind the drum kit. I love that guy.

    Are there any recommendations you might make to a newbie like myself?

  25. #50
    Jamool do you know / dig Ruins Live @ Mandala 2000 ?
    One of the most amazing live performances ever "caught on tape "
    Mind boggling stuff
    Take listen to this track and follow the outrageous bass playing+ realtime pedal manipulation here
    http://soundcloud.com/udi-koomran/ru...o-mandala-2000

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