The Mothers of Invention - Uncle Meat

[Steve F.]

Yeah, I agree with that. My Roy comment was more of a poor joke than anything else. I think the less time spent thinking about that the better.

Didn't realize you were joking. AOK.


Certainly agree re: painful / not fun to think about....

[Steve F.]

Frank Zappa (and his on again off again 'buddy', Don) are perfect examples of why it's best to separate the art from the artist.

Don. Oy vey. Yeah. No band member ever accused FZ of physical abuse....

[Progbear]

Frank Zappa and Richard Carpenter must be the all-time worst offenders when it comes to after-the-fact tampering.

***coughcoughEdgarFroesecoughcough***

[Steve F.]

***coughcoughEdgarFroesecoughcough***

Yeah. Edgar wins.

[GuitarGeek]

Yeah. Edgar wins.

Except that most of the time, the original versions of the Tangerine Dream records have stayed in print. There's never been a problem getting copies of any of the classic era albums that sound like they did in 1975 or whatever.

The one that I'm aware that he's never done a proper reissue of the original mix is Macula Transfer, one of his solo albums. THat one you can only get a re-recorded version of it.

[Dave (in MA)]

http://www.voices-in-the-net.de/macula_transfer.htm
This site says 1000 copies were released.

[Udi Koomran]

I'm just hoping for Uncle Meat getting the royal treatment like Freak Out and the mofo box

[zombywoof]

I'm just hoping for Uncle Meat getting the royal treatment like Freak Out and the mofo box

It's supposed to, but as you know the ZPZ has three working speeds - slow, slower, and stop. I love and appreciate their work, but man do they take forever and their delays are infamous (see the Roxy debacle). I got tired of waiting and made an LP rip and it sounds terrific. If anyone's interested in hearing it, I can post a sample of it.

[GuitarGeek]

http://www.voices-in-the-net.de/macula_transfer.htm
This site says 1000 copies were released.

Wow! A big 1000 copies! I wonder how many copies there are out there of the re-recorded version.

[profusion]

My wild guess about the reason for the penalty tracks (besides FZ wanting to pimp the release of the Uncle Meat video) is that the 75-minute running time of the original album was considered too long back in the early days of CDs, and perhaps it's true that the early CD mastering methods wouldn't permit the authoring of a disc that long.

[bRETT]

My wild guess about the reason for the penalty tracks (besides FZ wanting to pimp the release of the Uncle Meat video) is that the 75-minute running time of the original album was considered too long back in the early days of CDs, and perhaps it's true that the early CD mastering methods wouldn't permit the authoring of a disc that long.

Might have been the case on some other labels, but not on Rykodisc which was very much into long CD's....They set a record with the Mission of Burma CD at 80:02. Some of their Zappa releases (Apostrophe/Overnight Sensation) were longer than a single-disc UM would have been.

[Progbear]

The one that I'm aware that he's never done a proper reissue of the original mix is Macula Transfer, one of his solo albums. THat one you can only get a re-recorded version of it.

I don’t think there has ever been an “original mix” of Green Desert. As far as I know, even the version that came in the ’70-’80 box had posthumous overdubs.

[GuitarGeek]

I don’t think there has ever been an “original mix” of Green Desert. As far as I know, even the version that came in the ’70-’80 box had posthumous overdubs.

Well, apart from the fact there are those who insist that Green Desert didn't originate in the 70's in the first place, that's not really the same thing as releasing an album with one mix, then replacing it with a completely different performance/mix years later, while keeping the original mix out of print.

The Who did this when they put out their remastered catalog in the 90's. Townshend's freeloading brother-in-law remixed a number of songs on the various releases, which is why I only own a couple of them (and the reason why I still don't have Quadrophenia on CD, because I've just never gotten around to tracking down a copy of the original mix).

Back to Tangerine Dream, if we're gonna talk about Green Desert, there were those live discs they put out in the 90's, of shows, I believe there was one from 76 and one from 82, which had much more recent overdubs added to the music (with the one from 76 having something like 10 minutes of "fictitious" music added at the beginning of the performance). And not quite the same thing, but the subsequent issue of live shows soon after the turn of the century was fraught with all kinds of technical glitches.

[unclemeat]

FZ was a genius, but he was also at times a total dick. Especially to his musicians and especially to his original band.

From Gail Zappa in the summer issue of Classic Rock :
“The worst moment was when the Mothers tried to sue him over the late-60s recordings. After all he'd done for them. He’d just been diagnosed with a terminal cancer and those motherfuckers tried to sue him! The idea that Jimmy Carl Black is now hanging out with Frank [in heaven] is appalling.”

[Steve F.]

From Gail Zappa in the summer issue of Classic Rock :

Ah! Gail!

So many stories!

So many!

Every one of them true too.

She won't even be allowed on the stairway.

[Frankie]

I was thinking about how many times I tried to understand the decisions that Frank made - totally a lost cause. Nobody will ever know why he did what he did... speculation tends to drive you insane when it comes to Zappa. I've finally gotten to a "just enjoy it" place with that music. Uncle Meat is still in my top 5 just for sheer lunacy and editing.

It's like the end of that episode of The Simpsons where Bart wins an elephant.

[Werbinox]

Go out and get a good vinyl copy of the album. Or do what I do and just dont play the bonus stuff. Its one of Frank & The Mothers' greatest albums, a must have.

[Scrotum Scissor]

The double vinyl is actually surprisingly fitting for one-sitting listenings, due to its variety of expressions and the near-biographical nature of the flow on it. And the way in which the whole thing ends with the lengthy "King King" (partly) live recording sorta lets it whip on a high note going out.

[Troopers For Sound]

Yesterday I was meant to get all my Xmas shopping done...but instead...

Go out and get a good vinyl copy of the album.

...I ended up doing just that when I happened to spot a brand new copy in my local independent store I'd remembered that someone here had mentioned that the original 1969 mix had been used for the new vinyl edition, and sure enough it states that nice and clearly on the back label. It really does sound great, as does the original mix of Mr Green Genes. Really, really clear and punchy without the extra reverb.

The double vinyl is actually surprisingly fitting for one-sitting listenings, due to its variety of expressions and the near-biographical nature of the flow on it. And the way in which the whole thing ends with the lengthy "King King" (partly) live recording sorta lets it whip on a high note going out.

But I think this^^^^^ is the most important thing for me with this record. I'd bought it in the mid nineties after having heard maybe 15 Zappa albums, and if I'm honest it never really made it into the top 20 for me - let alone the top 10. Part of that is that it does seriously suffer from its CD presentation, and I really found it quite a revelation listening to it as originally presented. Side 3 especially worked a treat opening with the aforementioned Mr Green Genes. And like Scrotum Scissor says, it suddenly feels like a very easy record to put on as the flow of each side is pretty much perfect. And not a penalty track in sight

Matt.

[JJ88]

^I was hoping that the last reissue campaign would clean the sprawl up and get all the original mixes out there in the mass market again- this one on just one disc without the junk. Alas, it did not.

[Dave (in MA)]

Yeah. Edgar wins.

Soundmill Navigator being the most inexplicable example.

[JJ88]

The difference is, it's easy to get the Tangerine Dream albums as they were originally released.