Henry Cow Discussion

[Scrotum Scissor]

“Living in the Heart of the Beast” is what it says on the tin: a beast. A maze of bewildering complexity that resolves in an unexpectedly romantic (and “harmonically nourishing”) way.

The greatest "prog epic" of all time. Bar absolutely none, IMHO. Unlike 4/5 of all other such works ("Close to the Edge" and "Supper's Ready", for instance), it couldn't have been converted into a reggae jam.

[chalkpie]

The greatest "prog epic" of all time. Bar absolutely none, IMHO. Unlike 4/5 of all other such works ("Close to the Edge" and "Supper's Ready", for instance), it couldn't have been converted into a reggae jam.

Everything can be converted into reggae. Everything.

The only debate you might get from me is that both "Greggery Peccary" and "Mumps" are both easily as magisterial to my ears for different reasons - there is no way I could choose - and I'm glad I don't have to. Lately you could add "The Everso Closely Guarded Line" (its mini, but its as grand as it gets) and "Cinema" doesn't exactly sucketh, either. Fuck it - I need to add "The Moon in June" too. But its up there for sure, and as far as "prog epics" go, it gets a nomination for being the most under-appreciated/unknown gems out there. Close to the Fudge, down by a zipper.

"Other" prog epics might be a pretty great thread actually.

[chalkpie]

PS - best band ever.

A few weeks back I spun Leg End an absolutely insane amount of times within the span of a week or so. What a beautiful album, just mindblowing.

[Scrotum Scissor]

^ Agree on "Mumps" (by Hatfield, for those not in the know) and "Cinema" (by Aqsak Maboul), but "Pecker" (by Zappa, although that title could just as easily have been from one of Jon Anderson's diary notes) falls short of other epics of his such as "Little House I Used to Live In" (IMO) - arguably due to the fact that the 'rock' quotient of the pecker-piece seems somewhat compromised to begin with. The latter is also prbably why I'd put "Living in the Heart of the Beast" above "Erk Gah", although this is far more through-composed and elaborate.

As for folks not discovering/"getting" works like "LitHotB", this somehow explains itself. Most popular "prog epics" are fairly elementary in overall structure and development of motifs and themes. I suppose this is where the rather shallow appearance of that 'apparent complexity' principle sets in.

The single "prog epic" which comes the closest to "Beast" for me, is Picchio dal Pozzo's "Mettiamo Il Caso Che...". This latter piece displays a sense of harmonic texture, dynamic dissonance and thematic variation which is almost rudimentary in approach but still manages to overwhelm the listener with sheer melodic force; there's simply not a wrong or superfluous note in that entire construction, and its beauty flows as if a folk song.

[rottersclub]

Good God, I forgot how sublime this is. Thanks for posting it.

[chalkpie]

Good God, I forgot how sublime this is. Thanks for posting it.

Agreed, amazing piece.

[Buddhabreath]

And now back to HC: I had never actually given Trondheim my undivided attention but did so last night and I found it astonishing - what a spiral trip of electric mystery and depth.

- Thanks to Scrotum Scissors for prompting me to re-visit and discover this gem.

[Scrotum Scissor]

^

Yes, that is my fave recorded piece of improv by them. At some 80 minutes it appears quite uncanny to muster, but listeners are profoundly rewarded at the entrance of that "March" ending. This is a mammoth free-base work.

[Phlakaton]

^

Yes, that is my fave recorded piece of improv by them. At some 80 minutes it appears quite uncanny to muster, but listeners are profoundly rewarded at the entrance of that "March" ending. This is a mammoth free-base work.

The tape segments and the absolutely astonishing interplay between them all blows me away. You can tell they had been together and comfortable when they did that recording. Delicate and powerful and yeah... all of that!

[unclemeat]

From Ben Piekut's FB page :

"Dear Cow fans,

As some of you know, I am completing a book on Henry Cow, to be published sometime next year. I would like to include photos of the band that haven't already been widely reproduced, so I'm writing to ask anyone with old prints, negatives, or high-res scans to please contact me at piekut [at] cornell [dot] edu, if you would be willing to discuss sharing them with me. Email is the best way to contact me.

Thank you!

Ben Piekut"

[Conti]

Great news!

[chalkpie]

Fantastique!

[Phlakaton]

Bravo!

[mogrooves]

His book Experimentalism Otherwise: The New York Avant-Garde and Its Limits is well worth checking out, as well.

[Jefferson James]

I have a friend who's a big Henry Cow fan, she's tried turning me on to various things but nothing ever stuck. Thanks to Scrotum Scissor I'm checking out "Living in the Heart of the Beast", digging it, and in my fractured brain I'm reminded a bit of Thinking Plague (the female vocal, the dissonance and overall odd-ness). More Henry Cow cued up.

[jkelman]

Can't recall if I posted my review of the 10-disc Cow Box, now broken out other than a bonus disc included in the box. If I did, apologies for the redundancy....

It's as broad a cross-section of the group's work as you'll find...more so than their original discography.

Read it here...

[NogbadTheBad]

Cool will read it later, thanks for posting.

[Baribrotzer]

...I'm checking out "Living in the Heart of the Beast", digging it, and in my fractured brain I'm reminded a bit of Thinking Plague (the female vocal, the dissonance and overall odd-ness).

Henry Cow are an acknowledged influence on Thinking Plague. I think, but am not entirely sure, that they may be one of the few "prog" bands that Mike still listens to; most of his listening for the past however-many years has been classical music. And, oddly enough, the Beatles - he has a surprising side project in the form of a Beatles repertory band of extreme musical accuracy.

[Scrotum Scissor]

Henry Cow [...] may be one of the few "prog" bands that Mike still listens to; most of his listening for the past however-many years has been classical music.

Surprisingly, earlier and somewhat less overtly challenging and intricate TPlague always struck me as MORE "Cow'ish" than the abstract yet densely through-composed later stough. Arguably because of that jagged edge of aggression which the Plagues expressed during their tenure with Susanne Lewis and its faint similarity to Art Bears/HC.

FWIW, Mike J. to my ears always integrated traces of modern classical which the Cow (for various natural and logical reasons) rarely touched upon.

[Baribrotzer]

Surprisingly, earlier and somewhat less overtly challenging and intricate TPlague always struck me as MORE "Cow'ish" than the abstract yet densely through-composed later stough.

That's what you'd expect of an artist, though, isn't it? That he'd eventually transcend his earlier influences and come to sound mostly or entirely like himself. It just doesn't always happen that way: You can be so good at imitation, like some rock bands or movie composers, that you never stop sounding like the obvious sum of your influences. Or you can be so bad at it that you never really "get" any of them, and by default sound like yourself from the beginning.

[Mister Triscuits]

Or you can be so bad at it that you never really "get" any of them, and by default sound like yourself from the beginning.

What Peter Schickele called "Originality through incompetence."

[Baribrotzer]

What Peter Schickele called "Originality through incompetence."

Hey, that's the way I do it. Or, one could argue, Peter Hamill. Though it may not be a matter of incompetence, so much as one of not having a natural quick ear for copying and never making the effort to become any good at it. Or, perhaps, a matter of having a clear artistic vision from the start, so subsequent influences bend your work in one way or another but never transform it into a copy of themselves.

[Scrotum Scissor]

That's what you'd expect of an artist, though, isn't it? That he'd eventually transcend his earlier influences and come to sound mostly or entirely like himself.

True for damn certain.

[Scrotum Scissor]

What Peter Schickele called "Originality through incompetence."

True for damn certain this as well.

[Scrotum Scissor]

What Peter Schickele called "Originality through incompetence."

That Sigmund Snopek character, or - obviously - much so-called "outsider music".

John mentions Peter Hammill, and yeah - I do believe a lot of his stuff came about as a result of wanting and seeking aims which transcended his formal abilities, thus ending in something pretty darn singular.