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Thread: RTF in concert,1973. WOW!!!

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasKDye View Post
    FYI, this thread made me look into RTF music on YouTube, and I really like it. I've only dipped my toe into jazz-fusion, mostly because it's only been 20% of the time when I've had that itch to scratch. This definitely is some good stuff. It's full of mesmerizing grooves alternating with funky little odd-time sig links. The key word being "grooves."
    As John Oliver says... Welcome welcome welcome! They are an amazing band and I have been into them since 1974. Their solo stuff is all great/good as well... for the most part. A LOT of solo stuff of course so some missteps to some ears. The RTF song Romantic Warrior from the same titled LP has always been a favorite. I think it is one of the most beautiful songs from that era. It truly shows the brilliance of all 4 members and what jazz/fusion can be in my opinion. In fact when I make a sample cd for people who have not been exposed to "our tastes" I put that on there along with Jean Luc Ponty's Gardens of Babylon... and of course some Camel, Genesis, Yes etc...
    Last edited by rich; 01-06-2019 at 12:26 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ytserush View Post
    These guys have a comprehensive box? I've got the obvious stuff and some live stuff from the reunion a few years back but nothing career spanning.
    I think the Anthology they put out a few years ago is the closest thing and nothing really new on it just remastered music if I remember correctly. The two recent live LP's, the one from the 2008 tour with Al di Meola and the follow up with Jean luc Ponty and Frank Gambale a few years later are both superb.

  3. #53
    Progdog ThomasKDye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rich View Post
    The RTF song Romantic Warrior from the same titled LP as always been a favorite.
    That was the first one I listened to, and it made me want to hear more.
    "Arf." -- Frank Zappa, "Beauty Knows No Pain" (live version)

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by No Pride View Post
    He became disillusioned with the direction the music was going in and with Chick's Scientology influenced leadership. Basically the same reason why Scott Henderson left Chick's Elektric Band.
    What is it about these early to mid-70's fusion groups and the melding of religious philosophy into the music? Mahvishnu and Sri Chimnoy come to mind. Santana and Alice Coltrane, too. Did McLaughlin "enforce" his eastern spiritualism onto his bandmates? I suppose it's a good alternative to drug abuse, but it just seems odd that this sort of thing would take place. Maybe this is the reason the original Mahavishnu Orchestra broke up during the Trident sessions?

    Speaking of McLaughlin, he turned 77 yesterday! Wow! The dude is in great shape and is still a monster guitarist.
    Last edited by Guitarplyrjvb; 01-06-2019 at 09:43 AM.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guitarplyrjvb View Post
    What is it about these early to mid-70's fusion groups and the melding of religious philosophy into the music? Mahvishnu and Sri Chimnoy come to mind. Santana and Alice Coltrane, too. Did McLaughlin "enforce" his eastern spiritualism onto his bandmates? I suppose it's a good alternative to drug abuse, but it just seems odd that this sort of thing would take place. Maybe this is the reason the original Mahavishnu Orchestra broke up during the Trident sessions?
    Not just fusion groups. I saw an interview with Pete Townshend from around 1971-2 and he was also getting spiritual discussing his music. There seemed to be a strong desire to "find God" in music back then. Look at what Jon Anderson did with Yes in 1973, and on down to the Moody Blues and all the way back to George Harrison in 1967. Maybe it was what everyone was smoking.
    I'm holding out for the Wilson-mixed 5.1 super-duper walletbuster special anniversary extra adjectives edition.

  6. #56
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    ^^ Yeah, but there didn’t seem to be pressure to conform to any particular philosophy in those examples. Yes, I guess, became group vegetarians except for Wakeman, but that didn’t last very long. I guess Donald Lehmkeuhl (sp.?) was involved with them during the Relayer period, but trying to track Jon Anderson’s “spiritual philosophy of the month” would take its own thread.

  7. #57
    Member chalkpie's Avatar
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    This shit was super hot. Love it.
    If it isn't Krautrock, it's krap.

  8. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Paulrus View Post
    Not just fusion groups. I saw an interview with Pete Townshend from around 1971-2 and he was also getting spiritual discussing his music. There seemed to be a strong desire to "find God" in music back then. Look at what Jon Anderson did with Yes in 1973, and on down to the Moody Blues and all the way back to George Harrison in 1967. Maybe it was what everyone was smoking.
    I am going to guess that the search for God and spirituality also created music of much higher ambition and quality. It's no coincidence that the lack of spiritual connectivity has lead us to the musical climate of today.

    "What happened, to this song, we once knew so well, Signed promise for moments caught within the spell"


    I think John Anderson predicted the future of music in those lyrics, probably because he was feeling connected to a visionary power greater than most anyone is feeling today.. every bit as accurate as anything Nostradamus saw in his minds eye of the future.

    Strap on your seatbelts folks, we are still going backwards and accelerating.... until the Great Calamity.

  9. #59
    Camera is hardly on Stanley Clarke!
    "Moustache stays right where it's at" - Clutch

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    I love this so much. I was not aware of this footage featuring Bill Connors. He's one of my favorite guitar players. His three solo albums on ECM in the 70's are all gems and to see him here with the great rhythm section of Stanley Clarke and Lenny White is a real treat. My favorite incarnation of RTF right here.

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guitarplyrjvb View Post
    ^^ Yeah, but there didn’t seem to be pressure to conform to any particular philosophy in those examples.
    Some tacked toward some form of Christianity, but the religion du jour seemed to be some variety of Indian/Asian spiritualism -- Buddhism, Transcendentalism, Gnosticism, B'hai... it was all in the air, waiting to be plucked (for a modest contribution to your local ashram! )
    I'm holding out for the Wilson-mixed 5.1 super-duper walletbuster special anniversary extra adjectives edition.

  12. #62
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guitarplyrjvb View Post
    What is it about these early to mid-70's fusion groups and the melding of religious philosophy into the music? Mahvishnu and Sri Chimnoy come to mind. Santana and Alice Coltrane, too. Did McLaughlin "enforce" his eastern spiritualism onto his bandmates? I suppose it's a good alternative to drug abuse, but it just seems odd that this sort of thing would take place.
    spirits of the time and drugs I think... Herbie had his Mwandishi group take on Swahili names, so did Carlos (but the original line-up was disintegrating at the time... Plenty of jazzers were also going mystic (from Coltrane to Pharoah and to a lesser extent McCoy), but a few years ago,Jon was still encouraging his crowd to smoke up the some "arranged tea" (apparently a few broke English blokes used to do this in the 60's).

    Quote Originally Posted by Paulrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paulrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Guitarplyrjvb View Post
    Not just fusion groups. I saw an interview with Pete Townshend from around 1971-2 and he was also getting spiritual discussing his music. There seemed to be a strong desire to "find God" in music back then. Look at what Jon Anderson did with Yes in 1973, and on down to the Moody Blues and all the way back to George Harrison in 1967. Maybe it was what everyone was smoking.
    ^^ Yeah, but there didnít seem to be pressure to conform to any particular philosophy in those examples. Yes, I guess, became group vegetarians except for Wakeman, but that didnít last very long. I guess Donald Lehmkeuhl (sp.?) was involved with them during the Relayer period, but trying to track Jon Andersonís ďspiritual philosophy of the monthĒ would take its own thread.
    Some tacked toward some form of Christianity, but the religion du jour seemed to be some variety of Indian/Asian spiritualism -- Buddhism, Transcendentalism, Gnosticism, B'hai... it was all in the air, waiting to be plucked (for a modest contribution to your local ashram! )
    actually, I'd say that rejection of christianism was happening back there, pushed by the Civil Rights Movement... they turned to other gods than the one pushed by the dominant white male.
    The hippie communities were also very mystic, searching for inner peace (more like an inner piece, IMHO)

    Quote Originally Posted by abhorsen View Post
    I love this so much. I was not aware of this footage featuring Bill Connors. He's one of my favorite guitar players. His three solo albums on ECM in the 70's are all gems and to see him here with the great rhythm section of Stanley Clarke and Lenny White is a real treat. My favorite incarnation of RTF right here.
    absolutely...
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from heroin-addicts to crazy ones

  13. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by rich View Post
    I think the Anthology they put out a few years ago is the closest thing and nothing really new on it just remastered music if I remember correctly. The two recent live LP's, the one from the 2008 tour with Al di Meola and the follow up with Jean luc Ponty and Frank Gambale a few years later are both superb.
    Thanks.

    Have the 2008 one don't have the most recent one. Anthology is OK and is a quick fix if I need to hear some. Think I have everything from 73 to 76, but not a lot on either side of that. I'm going to guess there's not a lot of demand for reissues of this band.

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by No Pride View Post
    this is without a doubt the most difficult music I've ever played...
    Chick's music was more thoroughly composed than McLaughlin's and though there was a decent amount of room for improvisation, there was definitely a higher percentage of composition.
    <snip>
    I'm often in awe of how Chick came up with a lot of this stuff.
    indeed, those things are the reason why, if you put a gun to my head and said I had to name a favorite progressive artist, it would be Return To Forever. Of the top 10 Prog artists I love, there's not another who so perfectly combined the amazingly skillful improvisational aspects of Jazz Rock with the precision compositional aspects of Symph Rock. PFM came close and Lark's era Crim were great and the musicians in early Camel were great improvisers as well and MO are crazy goodness; but no one balanced both styles of progressive Rock music (Symph Rock and Jazz Rock) as great as RTF.
    Why is it whenever someone mentions an artist that was clearly progressive (yet not the Symph weenie definition of Prog) do certain people feel compelled to snort "thats not Prog" like a whiny 5th grader?

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by rich View Post
    I think the Anthology they put out a few years ago is the closest thing and nothing really new on it just remastered music if I remember correctly.
    It has the complete "Hymn of the Seventh Galaxy," "Romantic Warrior," and a couple of tracks from "Where Have I Known You Before" and "No Mystery." RW didn't really need remastering, but HotSG was begging for it and it sounds so much better on this compilation; totally worth the price of admission!

    Quote Originally Posted by MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER View Post
    indeed, those things are the reason why, if you put a gun to my head and said I had to name a favorite progressive artist, it would be Return To Forever. Of the top 10 Prog artists I love, there's not another who so perfectly combined the amazingly skillful improvisational aspects of Jazz Rock with the precision compositional aspects of Symph Rock. PFM came close and Lark's era Crim were great and the musicians in early Camel were great improvisers as well and MO are crazy goodness; but no one balanced both styles of progressive Rock music (Symph Rock and Jazz Rock) as great as RTF.
    Well I don't exactly consider "Hymn" to be symph rock as Chick wasn't using synths, mellotron, or anything besides Fender Rhodes (sometimes with a distortion pedal) yet. But yes, it's got more composition than many other jazz or fusion albums. And I do think that Romantic Warrior has a good deal of symph prog influence in the mix; probably why it seems to be the favorite among prog heads.

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by No Pride View Post
    Well I don't exactly consider "Hymn" to be symph rock as Chick wasn't using synths, mellotron
    the intricate composition is the Symphonic part. I don't generally tie Symphonic Rock to particular instruments. But no RTF album is mere Symphonic Rock. They are beyond mere Symph Rock or Jazz Rock; they seem to me the perfect balance between Symph Rock and Jazz Rock
    Why is it whenever someone mentions an artist that was clearly progressive (yet not the Symph weenie definition of Prog) do certain people feel compelled to snort "thats not Prog" like a whiny 5th grader?

  17. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave (in MA) View Post
    One of the best things about it is, no Gayle Moran vocals.
    That sounds like a good thing indeed.

    I don't have that many RTF albums:
    Where have I known you before / No mystery
    Electric Lady Studio, NYC, June 1975
    Romantic warrior
    Live - The complete concert

  18. #68
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    I also agree when Gayle Moran shuts up, it's better (in Mahavishnu, especially)

    Renate, you really need Hymn 7th Galaxy, IMHO >> It's better than RW

    Have you heard the first version of RTF (the first two albums) with Airto, Flora Purim and Farrell ??
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from heroin-addicts to crazy ones

  19. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post
    I also agree when Gayle Moran shuts up, it's better (in Mahavishnu, especially)

    Renate, you really need Hymn 7th Galaxy, IMHO >> It's better than RW

    Have you heard the first version of RTF (the first two albums) with Airto, Flora Purim and Farrell ??
    No, I don't have heard the first version of RTF. Not sure if I would like them. RTF is a band that I can like, or dislike. If it's to much jazz, I don't like it.

  20. #70
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    Based on this thread I've come to realize I have a big ol' hole in my collection where RTF needs to live. I went back chronologically and picked up the first one (the Chick Corea album titled "RTF") and am digging that a lot. I've got a soft spot for Latin jazz anyways, so that early RTF sounds sweet to me.
    I'm holding out for the Wilson-mixed 5.1 super-duper walletbuster special anniversary extra adjectives edition.

  21. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Paulrus View Post
    Based on this thread I've come to realize I have a big ol' hole in my collection where RTF needs to live. I went back chronologically and picked up the first one (the Chick Corea album titled "RTF") and am digging that a lot. I've got a soft spot for Latin jazz anyways, so that early RTF sounds sweet to me.
    I don't really like Latin jazz.

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rarebird View Post
    If it's to much jazz, I don't like it.
    same here... there are very few albums that I love which do not have intricate composition
    Why is it whenever someone mentions an artist that was clearly progressive (yet not the Symph weenie definition of Prog) do certain people feel compelled to snort "thats not Prog" like a whiny 5th grader?

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by No Pride View Post
    It has the complete "Hymn of the Seventh Galaxy," "Romantic Warrior," and a couple of tracks from "Where Have I Known You Before" and "No Mystery." RW didn't really need remastering, but HotSG was begging for it and it sounds so much better on this compilation; totally worth the price of admission!
    My understanding is the whole Anthology has been remixed as well as remastered. Probably the reason it sounds better.

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulrus View Post
    Based on this thread I've come to realize I have a big ol' hole in my collection where RTF needs to live. I went back chronologically and picked up the first one (the Chick Corea album titled "RTF") and am digging that a lot. I've got a soft spot for Latin jazz anyways, so that early RTF sounds sweet to me.
    The follow-up album, "Light as a Feather" is a classic and one track from it, "Spain" became a mainstay in jazz repertoire. Then after hearing The Mahavishnu Orchestra, Chick did an about-face and made his first fusion album, "Hymn of the Seventh Galaxy." He probably should've changed the name of the band at that point since it was such a left turn. But interestingly, when I saw them touring "Hymn," the played some tunes from LaaF in the style of the new band. Those two albums did come out the same year ('73) and I guess there wasn't enough materiel from "Hymn" for a full show. Anyway, it was really cool and another reason I have no problem with being as old as I am.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dok View Post
    My understanding is the whole Anthology has been remixed as well as remastered. Probably the reason it sounds better.
    You're right; it was remixed by Mick Guzauski and re-mastered by Bernie Grundman.

  25. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by No Pride View Post
    He became disillusioned with the direction the music was going in and with Chick's Scientology influenced leadership. Basically the same reason why Scott Henderson left Chick's Elektric Band.
    I had read that Connors left because he didn't want to do extensive rock-style touring, which RTF was beginning to do at that point. Could be multiple reasons, I'm sure.

    Stanley Clarke left RTF in 1977 because he dropped out of Scientology, from what I recall. I might be the only person who really enjoys Musicmagic!

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