The Yardbirds

[Jerjo]

That Page solo on "Think About It" from the Top Gear is pretty wicked.

Listening to Beck right now. The original "Beck's Bolero" is such a great guitar workout. For me, Jeff Beck after the Yardbirds is kinda hit and miss. The Truth and Beckola albums hold up well, but you have to pick and choose pretty carefully after that. I think that's why the Ronny Scott show is so popular is that it is Beck at his best, playing his best material. When the man is on fire, there are very few that can match him. That "Day in the Life" cover is just spine-tingling.

Page in '77: heroin is a helluva drug. I've heard a lot of boots from that tour and overall, I prefer the early years. It was a mess of a tour. The set list was rigged to get Plant as much time off his ankle as possible so the three solo sections were always bloated, always momentum killers. I saw them at the old Met Center in Bloomington MN on that tour, my only Zep show. Fortunately they were the beasts that night, mostly because Page was still recovering from this "stomach issue" that cancelled a show in Chicago. I remember him kicking off his solo section by walking the length of the stage just playing lightning runs up and down the neck. Guy next to me said, "that's it, I'm never playing guitar again." And then you hear other boots from that tour and he's just barely holding it together. '73 and the earlier tours are much much better.

I'm convinced that Page is done. We'll never see that solo LP and I don't think he'll be doing anymore live Zep releases. He's just content making appearances at talk shows and doing interviews about the old days. There are rumors that his hands are crippled up, similar to what Clapton is going through. Keith Richards' playing since he fell on his head is pretty mediocre as well. Townsend's back is shot. Let's face it, the guitar heroes are getting old.

[GuitarGeek]

[QUOTE=Jerjo;646121]That Page solo on "Think About It" from the Top Gear is pretty wicked.

Page in '77: heroin is a helluva drug. I've heard a lot of boots from that tour and overall, I prefer the early years. It was a mess of a tour. The set list was rigged to get Plant as much time off his ankle as possible so the three solo sections were always bloated, always momentum killers. I saw them at the old Met Center in Bloomington MN on that tour, my only Zep show. Fortunately they were the beasts that night, mostly because Page was still recovering from this "stomach issue" that cancelled a show in Chicago. I remember him kicking off his solo section by walking the length of the stage just playing lightning runs up and down the neck. Guy next to me said, "that's it, I'm never playing guitar again." And then you hear other boots from that tour and he's just barely holding it together. '73 and the earlier tours are much much better.

Like I said, some nights in 77, he was fantastic, other nights, he sounded like he could barely play. I still think the show on the Listen To This Eddie bootleg is fantastic. That's got a killer version of No Quarter that goes on for nearly a half hour, with both Page and Jonesy playing at the height of their powers. There's a few other shows I've heard that were awesome too. I know some people say the Richfield Coliseum show on the Destroyer bootleg isn't that good, but I actually rather like that one.

But then, as has been said, things like the Seattle show, which circulates on video. I remember wondering why they didn't use anything from Seattle on the Led Zeppelin DVD that came out back around 2002 or 2003, whenever it was. That was before I actually saw the video. When I did, I realized how bad Page sounded, making it obvious why he didn't use anything from that show on the official release.

I'm convinced that Page is done. We'll never see that solo LP and I don't think he'll be doing anymore live Zep releases. He's just content making appearances at talk shows and doing interviews about the old days. There are rumors that his hands are crippled up, similar to what Clapton is going through. Keith Richards' playing since he fell on his head is pretty mediocre as well. Townsend's back is shot. Let's face it, the guitar heroes are getting old.

Yeha, that's what happens when you let wannabe documentary filmmaker talk you into leaping across the stage, as he does at the end of Won't Get Fooled Again on the Kids Are Alright film. And I believe you can see him do it in the Kilburn footage too, so it's clear Jeff Stein was egging him on so he could get the "perfect shot of Pete Townshend defying gravity" (which he then complained he never got, because the lighting guy at the Shepperton performance missed his cue when, though everyone else on the planet thinks that slow motion shot is one of the definitive "showmanship" things captured on film).

I haven't heard any recent Stones, so I don't know what Keith is playing like these days. But as you say, these guys are getting old. I mean, Malcolm Young had to leave AC/DC because he's experiencing dementia, and he's, I think, a little bit younger than Clapton, Page, Townshend, etc. Neil Peart and Phil Collins both apparently are no longer able to play drums. And those guys are a bit younger than Keith, Townshend, Page, Clapton, etc. I know there was some concern about Keith Emerson's playing ability before he died. As you say, these guys are getting older, and it's getting to the point where, even if they're still alive, they might not able to still pull it off the way they used to.

And given some of the bad habits some of those guys have had, we should be thankful they've made it this far. I recall reading that back in the early 80's, Townshend actually had a heart attack, the only thing saving him was a nurse who tore his shirt off and literally thumped on the chest until his heart started beating correctly. And there was Paul Kantner's stroke, the fact that he continued to play and make music for another 30 years after that is just mind boggling.

[Enid]

[QUOTE=GuitarGeek;646053]

Gregg and Duane's first band was called The Allman Joys, which evolved into The Hour Glass. The Hour Glass eventually relocated to Los Angeles after getting a deal with Liberty Records. Liberty assigned them a producer who pretty much hijacked the band's two albums, forcing them to do a truckload of songs by outside songwriters. In particular, the first album had a song by a then unknown Jackson Browne (actually a pretty decent tune), as well as a couple Garry Goffin/Carole King compositions, and a Del Shannon song, too.

The first album has only one song written by Gregg, the second had several more, but they were still forced to work with the same producer (Dallas Smith, known for his work with Bobby Vee, if that tells you anything) as on the first record, who still made decisions the band didn't like. Both records flopped (largely due to the record company not letting them tour outside of California).

After making the second album, the band went to Muscle Shoals to record a demo of blues oriented music that was closer to what they were playing live. Liberty rejected that, so the band broke up. Gregg and Duane went to Jacksonville, Florida (soon to be the home of Lynyrd Skynyrd, The Outlaws, and .38 Special) to hang out and record with a band called The 31st Of February, which included future Allman Brothers Band drummer Butch Trucks. Then Liberty threatened to sue the band if they didn't fulfill their contractual obligations, so Gregg went back to LA to record one more album (which went unreleased for decades), while Duane and the other guys in the band went to work at FAME studios for the time being.

Eventually, Duane was made an offer by Jerry Wexler at Atlantic Records, so Duane formed what was supposed to be a power trio. But then through various jam sessions ended up with a six piece band which initially included a keyboardist named Reese Wynans (who had been in The Second Coming with Dickie Betts and Berry Oakley, and would later play with both Captain Beyond and Stevie Ray Vaughan And Double Trouble). The story Butch Trucks once told was, after this one jam session, Duane went to the door and said "Anyone who doesn't want to be in my band gonna have to fight his way out". Apparently, Reese put up a fight, because Duane then called Gregg, who had just about wrapped up his obligations in LA, and had him come down to Macon, Georgia where they were rehearsing, and thus began The Allman Brothers Band.





Lots of great players you name there. A particular guitar or amp or pedal will contribute to the tone a given guitarist has, but as you point out, no gear is gonna give you that guitarist's mind, hands, personality or heart. What made those guys (and ltos of others) sound the way they did had a lot to do with it being that one guy.




I think The Yardbirds were an interesting mix of the two sides. They were bluesy, but I think that was largely the result of that being what was trendy at the time. And they certainly had the pop side covered with songs like For Your Love and You're A Better Man Than I.

I'm not sure about The Animals, but I would definitely say the Stones were a bit more authentic with their blues. You get the feeling that Keith Richards, at least, was a genuine dyed in the wool blues fan the way Clapton was, and that was what he wanted to do. And since Keith was one of the main songwriters in the band, he mostly got his way (except for that ill conceived idea to go psychedelic with Satanic Majesties, and Mick's later insistence on experimenting with "dance" music styles on songs like Miss You and Undercover Of The Night).

Super interesting post! Very informative

[Adm.Kirk]

All I can say about the Stones is listen to the new album. There have been two albums I listened to back to back when I first brought them home. One was the Anderson/Stolt and the other is Blue & Lonesome by The Rolling Stones. Jagger sounds like a man possessed and Keith, Ronnie and Charlie are playing pretty damn well. Just because it's a straight blues album, don't be deceived, the new Stones record is bad ass.

Bill

[Jerjo]

I've heard a couple tracks from the new album and yeah, they're fired up. I posted the new video for Ride Em On Down in one of the Stones threads. It sounds great and oh, the video looks really um good.

[Adm.Kirk]

Kristen Stewart...enough said. It's a cool video. The Stones making a true blues album is such a natural fit. You'd think it would be Richards that was the guy pushing this, but apparently Jagger was the one who got the hot hand. It shows too. I think it's one of best albums both in terms of vocals and harp. Not bad for a bunch of really old men.

Bill

[Adm.Kirk]

I've never been a huge fan of Don Was' production with the Stones. I though he did a good job with Stripped but the rest I didn't particularly like his style even though I liked the albums as a whole but, Blue And Lonesome is the best production job Was has helmed with the band. Why? Mainly because he took more of a hands off approach. It's raw, live in the studio with very little knob twiddling.

Bill

[JJ88]

New release covering the Page era incoming, encompassing the Anderson Theater show remixed and the New York studio outtakes of this period:
http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/thread...#post-17065228

Interesting to see that 'Knowing That I'm Losing You' will be included...that was a song which did not appear on Cumular Limit. It's said to be an early version of what later became 'Tangerine'.

Pretty much closes the book on The Yardbirds, unless the vaults are explored for treasure recorded in the Giorgio Gomelsky period.

[mogrooves]

^^^^^ faulty link.

[JJ88]

^Corrected now, they merged two threads together so the old thread didn't work.

There is now talk that this is exclusive to Page's website...

[harperbass]

New to this forum. i belong to a couple others, but they're not very friendly. Quite! Anyway, Does anyone know the story of the LONG unedited version of "Mr. You're A Better Man Than I"? Here's a cut 'n paste I put on another forum. There is supposedly a book by a guy named Russo that has the info, but the info is contrary to what I've always heard. And I don't wanna pay 20 bucks for another book of 20 year old guys. Could someone just tell me any details re: "Better Man Than I" and "Train Kept A Rollin'"? Hope I'm not asking too much.

to wit:

I can't figure out how to make a new topic, so I'll post it here. I probably have already done so. It concerns the details of Yardbirds' "Mr. You're A Better Man Than I". It's always been one of my faves, and several years ago I bought it on Itunes and it was the same master, but w/ an extra verse and obvious "underdubs". I know it was recorded at Sun by Sam Philips, and he did a mono mix. The next day (I think) they went to Chess in Chicago to record "Shapes Of Things". Though no one has said it in print that I know of, except the Charly box, and the Philips mix is mono, all I can figure is they overdubbed a new LOUDER bass and some harmony vocals at end atop the mono master, like sound on sound, at Chess. And edited out the other verse. Added lots of compression. Sounds great mono. Anyone know the real story? Dreja and McCartey talked a little bit about it in a book I have on The Yardbirds, but the only real details are they couldn't find Sam, he was fishing, and he finally came in, was paid $600 and he let Jeff Beck use his old Gibson amp, minus a speaker, to get the feedback. In "The Shapes of Things" book by Dreja, McCartey and John Platt, they say they cut 2 tracks at Sun and Relf was too drunk to sing. "And recorded the vocal elsewhere". They are probably mistaken. Have no idea if it was recorded live or there was an overdub. I got the impression it was a mono recording to begin with and stayed that way. Maybe it was 3 or 4 track. I dunno. The best notes are in that Charly box by Gomelsky. My friend Phil Cohen compiled that set in '92-'93.

Can anybody add anything else? The original, longer version is nowhere near a good a mix as it ended up, on "Having A Rave Up..." to my ears. But, I thought someone here might know. There is hardly any bass on the Philips mix, I s'pose that's why the nifty overdubbed louder bass makes it shine. Somehow the drums sound louder as well.

Guess I could email McCartey, but he probably wouldn't remember. Anyway. I heard it on radio today (!) and got me to wondering, again.

Regards.

Rick Harper

[Jerjo]

Wow, I didn't even know there was an unedited version. I tried a Google search but came up with nothing. Have you tried the Hoffman forum?

[strawberrybrick]

New to this forum. i belong to a couple others, but they're not very friendly. Quite! Anyway, Does anyone know the story of the LONG unedited version of "Mr. You're A Better Man Than I"? Here's a cut 'n paste I put on another forum. There is supposedly a book by a guy named Russo that has the info, but the info is contrary to what I've always heard. And I don't wanna pay 20 bucks for another book of 20 year old guys. Could someone just tell me any details re: "Better Man Than I" and "Train Kept A Rollin'"? Hope I'm not asking too much.

to wit:

I can't figure out how to make a new topic, so I'll post it here. I probably have already done so. It concerns the details of Yardbirds' "Mr. You're A Better Man Than I". It's always been one of my faves, and several years ago I bought it on Itunes and it was the same master, but w/ an extra verse and obvious "underdubs". I know it was recorded at Sun by Sam Philips, and he did a mono mix. The next day (I think) they went to Chess in Chicago to record "Shapes Of Things". Though no one has said it in print that I know of, except the Charly box, and the Philips mix is mono, all I can figure is they overdubbed a new LOUDER bass and some harmony vocals at end atop the mono master, like sound on sound, at Chess. And edited out the other verse. Added lots of compression. Sounds great mono. Anyone know the real story? Dreja and McCartey talked a little bit about it in a book I have on The Yardbirds, but the only real details are they couldn't find Sam, he was fishing, and he finally came in, was paid $600 and he let Jeff Beck use his old Gibson amp, minus a speaker, to get the feedback. In "The Shapes of Things" book by Dreja, McCartey and John Platt, they say they cut 2 tracks at Sun and Relf was too drunk to sing. "And recorded the vocal elsewhere". They are probably mistaken. Have no idea if it was recorded live or there was an overdub. I got the impression it was a mono recording to begin with and stayed that way. Maybe it was 3 or 4 track. I dunno. The best notes are in that Charly box by Gomelsky. My friend Phil Cohen compiled that set in '92-'93.

Can anybody add anything else? The original, longer version is nowhere near a good a mix as it ended up, on "Having A Rave Up..." to my ears. But, I thought someone here might know. There is hardly any bass on the Philips mix, I s'pose that's why the nifty overdubbed louder bass makes it shine. Somehow the drums sound louder as well.

Guess I could email McCartey, but he probably wouldn't remember. Anyway. I heard it on radio today (!) and got me to wondering, again.

Regards.

Rick Harper

Alan Clayson's book The Yardbirds (2002) confirms that "You're A Better Man Than I" was recorded on Sept 12th 1965 at Sun in Memphis and the vocals latter that month in NYC. Same reason given - Relf was inebriated; but no mention of a longer mix.