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Thread: Hackett Howe.. who's holding up the best..

  1. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Rufus View Post
    Seriously, Methany is a one trick pony. He can plod along in a jazzy fusion fashion like tons of others but has no adaptability outside his comfort zone!!!
    Really? In 2005, at the Montreal Jazz festival he was artist in residence, and I saw him:
    1. Pat Metheny Group (end of The Way Up Tour, an outdoor free show to 125,000+ raving fans; I guess they were all wrong!)
    2. Duo with Mick Goodrick, one of his early mentors
    3. Duo with Charlie Haden, sharing their Midwestern roots
    4. Quartet with Dewey Redman recreating 80/81 sadly, without Michael Brecker
    5. Pat Metheny & Friends night with base trio of Scott Colley & Antonio Sanchez, then adding David Sanchez & Enrico Rava as guests
    6. Sitting in with Meshell Ndegeocello - and, yes, he was definitely way out of his comfort zone there, and it took him a good 15-20 minutes to find his way into her music (she was doing Spirit of Jamai, her instrumental album), but when he did, it was magic.

    Each concert was different. Each context was different. To suggest he is a one-trick pony? Had I thought that before this series (which I didn't), my mind would have changed. He was as malleable as it gets, ranging from free bop and Midwestern Americana to jazz standards and his own complex writing....plus melding himself into the music of someone he had never played with before.

    Sorry, Rufus, you don't have to like him, but your dismissal of him as someone of no significance says a lot about your ears, and that your biases override objective evidence of a career that's been broader than most.

  2. #77
    I tried not to derail the conversation about this when I first read it, but John nailed it. 'nuff said.

  3. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Digital_Man View Post
    Imo, Hackett has had a much more successful and interesting solo career. Howe is equally as talented over all but I think being in a band has made him not focus as much on his solo career the way Hackett has.
    Hmmm..
    Steve Howe
    Solo albums

    Beginnings (1975)
    The Steve Howe Album (1979)
    Turbulence (1991)
    The Grand Scheme of Things (1993)
    Not Necessarily Acoustic (1994)
    Mothballs Compilation w/Syndicats/In Crowd/Tomorrow/Keith West/Canto/Bodast & Solo Tracks (1994)
    Homebrew (1996)
    Masterpiece Guitars with Martin Taylor (1996)
    Quantum Guitar (1998)
    Pulling Strings (1998)
    Portraits of Bob Dylan (1999)
    Homebrew 2 (2000)
    Natural Timbre (2001)
    Skyline (2002)
    Elements (2003)
    Spectrum (2005)
    Remedy Live (2005)
    Homebrew 3 (2005)
    Motif (2008)
    The Haunted Melody with the Steve Howe Trio (2008)
    Travelling with the Steve Howe Trio (2010)
    Homebrew 4 (2010)
    Time (2011)
    Homebrew 5 (2013)

    Steve Hackett

    Studio albums

    Voyage of the Acolyte (1975)
    Please Don't Touch (1978)
    Spectral Mornings (1979)
    Defector (1980)
    Cured (1981)
    Highly Strung (1982)
    Bay of Kings (1983)
    Till We Have Faces (1984)
    Momentum (1988)
    Guitar Noir (1993)
    Blues with a Feeling (1994)
    Watcher of the Skies: Genesis Revisited (1996)
    A Midsummer Night's Dream (1997)
    Darktown (1999)
    Sketches of Satie (2000) (with John Hackett)
    Feedback 86 (2000)
    To Watch the Storms (2003)
    Metamorpheus (2005)
    Wild Orchids (2006)
    Tribute (2008)
    Out of the Tunnel's Mouth (2009)
    Beyond the Shrouded Horizon (2011)
    Genesis Revisited II (2012)[26]

  4. #79
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by happytheman View Post
    Hmmm..
    Steve Howe
    Solo albums

    Beginnings (1975)
    The Steve Howe Album (1979)
    Turbulence (1991)
    The Grand Scheme of Things (1993)
    Not Necessarily Acoustic (1994)
    Mothballs Compilation w/Syndicats/In Crowd/Tomorrow/Keith West/Canto/Bodast & Solo Tracks (1994)
    Homebrew (1996)
    Masterpiece Guitars with Martin Taylor (1996)
    Quantum Guitar (1998)
    Pulling Strings (1998)
    Portraits of Bob Dylan (1999)
    Homebrew 2 (2000)
    Natural Timbre (2001)
    Skyline (2002)
    Elements (2003)
    Spectrum (2005)
    Remedy Live (2005)
    Homebrew 3 (2005)
    Motif (2008)
    The Haunted Melody with the Steve Howe Trio (2008)
    Travelling with the Steve Howe Trio (2010)
    Homebrew 4 (2010)
    Time (2011)
    Homebrew 5 (2013)

    Steve Hackett

    Studio albums

    Voyage of the Acolyte (1975)
    Please Don't Touch (1978)
    Spectral Mornings (1979)
    Defector (1980)
    Cured (1981)
    Highly Strung (1982)
    Bay of Kings (1983)
    Till We Have Faces (1984)
    Momentum (1988)
    Guitar Noir (1993)
    Blues with a Feeling (1994)
    Watcher of the Skies: Genesis Revisited (1996)
    A Midsummer Night's Dream (1997)
    Darktown (1999)
    Sketches of Satie (2000) (with John Hackett)
    Feedback 86 (2000)
    To Watch the Storms (2003)
    Metamorpheus (2005)
    Wild Orchids (2006)
    Tribute (2008)
    Out of the Tunnel's Mouth (2009)
    Beyond the Shrouded Horizon (2011)
    Genesis Revisited II (2012)[26]
    Not really a fair comparison, as you're including live albums from Howe, and the Homebrew albums are really just demos.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  5. #80
    Howe also featured heavilyon Ultravox's Billy Currie's solo instrumental album and did a duo album with Paul Sutin.

  6. #81
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the winter tree View Post
    Howe also featured heavilyon Ultravox's Billy Currie's solo instrumental album and did a duo album with Paul Sutin.
    Actually, he did two with Sutin.

    Three if you count Skyline.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  7. #82
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    I love them both.

    Hackett has one of my favorite solo acoustic albums of all times: "Bay of Kings"

    And Howe has one of my favorite guitar albums of all times: "The Steve Howe Album". I can't imagine topping that masterpiece in terms of diversity, composition and execution on one album.

    As far as this thread's topic goes...they're both still loved by hordes of fans for very valid reasons. Given their ages, they're both holding up remarkably well and I don't see any benefit of opinionating beyond that.

  8. #83
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sturgeon's Lawyer View Post
    Heard 'em all. The guitar bits all sound like noodling to me.
    And...?

  9. #84
    And that means I'm not hearing melodies in the guitar work. I like all those tracks, and love "To Be Over," but the melodies are all in the vox, bass, and keyboards.
    Cobra handling and cocaine use are a bad mix.

  10. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Rufus View Post
    Seriously, Methany is a one trick pony. He can plod along in a jazzy fusion fashion like tons of others but has no adaptability outside his comfort zone!!!
    This is quite possibly the single most ridiculous - unreal - statement I ever read in here.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  11. #86
    ^^^Well that and his acoustic playing is amateurish at best, that's a good one.

  12. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by jkelman View Post
    Wow. I'd love to hear you play as well as he does. As for one style? Let's look at his discography (just a few of his records):

    • Bright Size Life: Trio with Jaco Pastorius & Bob Moses, tunes he wrote are still being performed today - and not just by him, some have entered the pantheon of standards;
    • Pat Metheny Group ("the White Album"): introduces a whole new way of blending acoustic and electric instruments that transcends typical "fusion" trappings. considered by many to be a classic
    • 80/81: another classic (critical and popular); Midwestern folk blends with free bop and more.
    • Travels: One of the most revered live albums of the past 30 years; Midwestern Americana blends with complex cinematic compositional constructs....and to play through them ain't easy at all. Also, along with the previous studio album, Offramp, Metheny begins to broaden his textural palette with guitar synth
    • Song X: With Ornette Coleman, Metheny delves into free jazz with one of its progenitors, for an album acclaimed as a classic.
    • Still Life (Talking): Pat Metheny Group explores Brazilian music in its own inimitable fashion. Metheny continues to expand his palette with introduction of synclavier.
    • Secret Story: an epic solo album of cinematic proportions. Writing for choir, orchestra, small ensembles and more, with Metheny's own palette continuing to broaden
    • We Live Here: his "groove and loop" record. It may sound easy and smooth, but dig beneath the surface, and tell me you can navigate some of the complex structures found underneath
    • Imaginary Day & The Way Up - Two of his best latter period PMG albums, with more textures, more stylistic stretching ("The Roots of Coincidence" won "best rock instrumental" - form a jazzer?!?!)
    • Unity Band and Unity Group's Kin - Unity Group takes Metheny's return to saxophone-based music and more open-ended improvisational constructs of Unity Band, and meshes with PMG's cinematic writing. Add the Orchestrion, which expands his palette even further, and Kin, the new album, is a potential classic in his discography.
    • Tap - shows he can take someone else's music (John Zorn in this case) and adapt his musical world view to create something that would not have been possible strictly from his pen, but that Zorn could never have envisaged when he handed the usually skimpy compositions of the Masada songbook to him and said "go!"



    Tell me how he is a one-style guy, just with the examples provided. Either you're living on a different planet than I am or you need to use those Q-tips in your ears a lot more regularly

    Seriously, I am not suggesting that everyone likes Metheny or should like Metheny (my wife doesn't, but for reasons that are a whole lot more reasoned than yours, and she still respects him and appreciates why he is one of the most influential guitarists of his generation), or that they should like everything he puts out. But to dismiss, as you have, a musician who has probably covered more musical ground than any other jazz musician of name, changed the world of jazz as he has, and continued to explore new avenues year after year - not always successfully, but that's fine....better to risk and fail than to not risk at all - it says to me that you've either not heard much of his music or you don't like him, and mistake what you like for what is good and what you don't for what is bad.

    Most reasonable folks who realize they are no more than arbiters of their taste, not what is good or bad, respect Metheny, even if he does nothing for them. He's a rarity, and if nothing else, the absolute antithesis of the one-trick pony you accuse him of being.
    You just articulated every point I could possibly bring up regarding Metheny. Brilliant post.

  13. #88
    Saw them both perform this year (Howe just last night, excellent). They both sound amazing, but if I had to give the edge it would be Hackett - his performance on this years revisited tour was jaw-dropping. Perfection.

  14. #89
    Howe has changed a lot of his solos when I've seen them, live. He may be playing fast on CTTE, but he isn't playing what he played on the studio album (which is usually MUCH more difficult).
    Some of the brilliant Yes songs came from layering many bits over each other - and then learning how to play all of them, combined. They weren't written from beginning to end the way they sound, on the album.

    And I don't think Steve Hackett's playing is necessarily easier - it's just very different, but also incredibly demanding, in spots.

    Two incredible guitarists who I feel honored to uphold their legacy, through live performance of their masterpieces.

  15. #90
    Member bill g's Avatar
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    I won't say one is better than the other. That's the human failing I think, trying to compare the incomparable. Hackett makes his guitar really sing in Firth of Fifth and Sierra Quemada. Howe really makes his guitar sing in To Be Over and Maiden Voyage. Hackett is a master of classical style, Howe of bluegrass fingerpicking style. Both can write some great music when they want as well.

  16. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by gpeccary View Post
    ^^^Well that and his acoustic playing is amateurish at best, that's a good one.
    Yeah. especially wid dat stupid 145-string Pikassi thing he tries to play at just about every show. He really needs to give it up.

    Seriously, I interviewed Linda Manzer about the 42-string Pikasso guitar that she built from Pat's simple instruction "build me a guitar with as many strings as possible."

    She made two: one for a collector, and one for Pat. Before she sent Pat his, she invited a bunch of shabby Canadian guitarists to her place one night to have a look - you know, schlubs like Bruce Cockburn, Don Ross, Stephen Fearing and three or four others. The story goes they passed it around, looking totally confused. Pat picked it up, tuned it and started playing it.

    I'm not saying you've gotta like the guy, or like everything he does. But he's about as far from being a one-trick pony as I can think of.

  17. #92
    Member 2steves's Avatar
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    Howe and Hackett are the two best prog guitarists---the yin and yang---and like true artists--give them both a guitar and they came up with such stunning original playing----love them both---and that's why I am 2steves.

    BTW--but Hackett has held up better physically for sure lol----

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