Deluge Grander "Heliotians" (LP/CD)

[Plasmatopia]

Sure, no prob. But don't complain if you get an album cover with a giant cock on it, and I don't mean a bird.

I'm fine with that if you are.

[Steve F.]

My favorite part of Dan's entire blurb about this :


Did you really write all the lyrics out 205 times? And do 205 different paintings on the sleeves? Are you insane?

Yes, yes, and maybe.

[JKL2000]

Ah, that's a question I anticipated:

Why sell vinyl LPs and CDs in the same package?
Each vinyl LP costs roughly $2 and each CD about $1 to manufacture. If a copy of "Heliotians" were sold with only one format, it would probably be sold for about $36 rather than $38. (The main reason the album is expensive is the sleeve.) There probably are some people who only want the vinyl LP and some who only want the CD, but they can rest assured that they wouldn't have saved much money if their unwanted disc weren't included.

Wait, we pay more for CDs and LPs than they cost to manufacture?

Here's one more question , just because you're willing to talk about this stuff. Would it have affected costs much at all if you had sold the CD version, the LP version, AND the CD/LP version? Just wondering.

[JKL2000]

My favorite part of Dan's entire blurb about this :


Did you really write all the lyrics out 205 times? And do 205 different paintings on the sleeves? Are you insane?

Yes, yes, and maybe.

And on some of the later copies, are the lyrics only "All work and no play makes Dan a dull boy...?"

[dnieper]

Wait, we pay more for CDs and LPs than they cost to manufacture?

Here's one more question , just because you're willing to talk about this stuff. Would it have affected costs much at all if you had sold the CD version, the LP version, AND the CD/LP version? Just wondering.

The main disadvantage of doing that would have been the confusion- having to decide how many CD vs. LP vs. CD+LP copies to make, making sure people were aware of the differences, etc.

[Joe F.]

I received my copy of the album today and am playing the vinyl as I type this.

Gorgeous artwork, great music. #140 of #205.

[Johnboy]

My 2 ¢... Love Deluge Grander, Love to collect vinyl, Love handmade things, LOVE THIS IDEA.
Got mine already #180.

[TheH]

Where can I buy it?

[battema]

Wayside has it, here in the States. Not sure about options for overseas.

I got my copy and yes...it is a lovely set. Very personal and creative. Still digesting the music, but so far I like what I am hearing (no big shock there ). Mine was...#143 maybe?

[dnieper]

The "official" release date is tomorrow, February 5, when it should be available at CDBaby for $38 plus shipping. I won't have a web address until then, unfortunately. Wayside and Laser's Edge already have it in stock as well.

Thanks to those who bought copies!

[Scrotum Scissor]

Can someone please ensure me that my copy most likely won't have a cock on the cover?

[Plasmatopia]

Can someone please ensure me that my copy most likely won't have a cock on the cover?

Don't worry - that one's exclusive to me.

[baltosal]

I just received my album and CD package today and it was number 177/200.

Better hurry before they are gone!

[ashratom]

Copy #199 just arrived at Casa Ashratom from CD Baby....

[dnieper]

The first copies I sent out were mostly high-numbered ones, since those tended to be the best-looking (IMO), and I wanted them to be the first copies people actually bought.

But so far, sales have been pretty good. According to my CDBaby seller account, there are 9 copies left in stock at CDBaby (http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/delugegrander3), and I have only 20 unsold copies at home, which are the ones I regard as, err... "less than beautiful." The vendors who've bought copies from me (Wayside, Greg Walker / Syn-phonic, Laser's Edge, and Mantis Music) probably still have several in stock, too.

I'm seriously considering making more copies, probably 160 more, still with the LP, CD, and hand-painted artwork, but without the handwritten lyrics since (a) that took an awfully long time to do and (b) to keep the first 205 copies "special." But they probably wouldn't be finished and on sale for at least 6 months. I hope purchasers of the first 205 copies wouldn't be upset by this- I admit it sort of contradicts the denominator "xx/205" on the first copies (the new copies would probably be numbered from 206/365 to 365/365), but (a) it's only 160 copies and analagous to an additional pressing of a regular album, (b) I would think the handmade qualities are what give the first 205 their value (not the numberings), and (c) it's not a $10-15 CD, which some people have strongly recommended I release, even after the first batch of 205 had been released and publicized, but which I don't want to do, partly because I think it would be deceptive after having said "There are no plans for releasing this album in any other physical format." These hypothetical 160 copies would just be an additional batch of copies in essentially the same physical format. But I'd like to get other people's thoughts here before I do anything that's regarded as deceptive, offensive, and/or detestable.

[battema]

The first copies I sent out were mostly high-numbered ones, since those tended to be the best-looking (IMO), and I wanted them to be the first copies people actually bought.

But so far, sales have been pretty good. According to my CDBaby seller account, there are 9 copies left in stock at CDBaby (http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/delugegrander3), and I have only 20 unsold copies at home, which are the ones I regard as, err... "less than beautiful." The vendors who've bought copies from me (Wayside, Greg Walker / Syn-phonic, Laser's Edge, and Mantis Music) probably still have several in stock, too.

I'm seriously considering making more copies, probably 160 more, still with the LP, CD, and hand-painted artwork, but without the handwritten lyrics since (a) that took an awfully long time to do and (b) to keep the first 205 copies "special." But they probably wouldn't be finished and on sale for at least 6 months. I hope purchasers of the first 205 copies wouldn't be upset by this- I admit it sort of contradicts the denominator "xx/205" on the first copies (the new copies would probably be numbered from 206/365 to 365/365), but (a) it's only 160 copies and analagous to an additional pressing of a regular album, (b) I would think the handmade qualities are what give the first 205 their value (not the numberings), and (c) it's not a $10-15 CD, which some people have strongly recommended I release, even after the first batch of 205 had been released and publicized, but which I don't want to do, partly because I think it would be deceptive after having said "There are no plans for releasing this album in any other physical format." These hypothetical 160 copies would just be an additional batch of copies in essentially the same physical format. But I'd like to get other people's thoughts here before I do anything that's regarded as deceptive, offensive, and/or detestable.

YOUR POST MADE MY SOUL GO CRY IN THE CORNER

...nah, it's all good. If you do up another batch it won't take away from the coolness of the package I got. And if it makes a few more folks who missed out on the first run, then all the better

[Sputnik]

I'd like to get other people's thoughts here before I do anything that's regarded as deceptive, offensive, and/or detestable.

Well, since you asked…

I’d say release the product in any format in which you think you can re-coup your costs that will please as many fans as possible. The hand-painted, numbered LP size packages are nice for some, and if you think you can sell another 160 of them and want to spend the time making them, by all means do it.

But likewise I’d say there is a market for a regular $10-$15 CD that the LP size package does not satisfy, and that you could do a run of 500 – 1,000 of those at a reasonable enough cost that you could re-coup that cost with the sale of a couple hundred of those.

IMO, you’ve kind of “over-thought” this whole packaging thing, creating arbitrary and artificial constraints where none need exist. The special LP set is a nice idea that some fans clearly like, but it’s never been clear to me why that would preclude a regular CD release. Likewise it shouldn’t preclude another run of LP packages if that is what you want to do.

The people who purchase one or the other option will be happy with the opportunity to buy in that format. You’ve thus spread the maximum joy possible with your music. How is that wrong?

Bill

[ashratom]

Dan - what you are proposing is like a company issuing more stock. The short term effect is the price of the current stock goes down (in most cases of course).

The original premise laid out was to present something special in a very limited supply. Bill's point above, and many others who I respect, did not like the approach from the get-go. I certainly understand their POV.

But since you went forward with trying to create something ultra limited and special (which I saw more as an homage to the homemade pioneers of the past than trying to be super exclusive). And many folks came out and defended you on that premise. So in my mind, $38 seems about right given the upfront costs you had to absorb and still make the project worthwhile. And for me as the consumer, I can be rest assured that at any point I need to liquidate my copy, I have a good chance to recoup my costs if need be.

So, yes, it's a deception if you look at it that way. You changed the rules after purchases had been made. Had I known close to 400 would be available, then I could have waited awhile, and probably/maybe snagged a copy for much less. I do this all the time depending on what type of release it is, etc...

I say all the above more from a cold investor standpoint rather than as an enthusiastic fan of progressive rock. I'm really the latter, and you can do whatever you want at the end of the day as far as I'm concerned. Who knows If I will ever sell any of this stuff, and my wife can deal with it when I'm 6 feet under.

[dnieper]

Thanks for the comments, everybody. And of course, big thanks to those of you who bought a copy. I hope you are satisfied with it! Watch out for my hair lice and fleas in those jackets!

I probably am indeed over-thinking things regarding this album's release. I readily admit not releasing a $10-15 CD is a disadvantage, and much of what I said was intended to justify this, as it probably seems odd or stupid at first. But as I said in post #24, this album will very probably also be released in regular CD format later on with the other albums in this "heptalogy" in a "box"- it will just be a few years down the road.

One other issue that I hadn't mentioned is that since CDBaby only takes $4 out of each item purchased (whether the price is $10 or $38), the artist gets about 90 percent of the sales price of $38 rather than about 60 percent of a $10 sales price. Whatever the artistic merits of this release might be, financially it's quite favorable in that way.

[chalkpie]

Call me a crazy lunatic, but maybe someone could talk about the actual MUSIC on this "ridiculous" package? Wait, are these CD's and LP's blank?

I know, I have some nerve....

[Sputnik]

this album will very probably also be released in regular CD format later on with the other albums in this "heptalogy" in a "box"- it will just be a few years down the road.

Yes, but every time this has come up, it's been a bit "two in the bush-y." Maybe it will be all the material on this album, maybe not. Maybe the CD will come out in 2, 3, whatever years, maybe not.

Well, maybe your CD buying fans will still care in 2, 3 whatever years, and maybe not.

Bill

[Joe F.]

Call me a crazy lunatic, but maybe someone could talk about the actual MUSIC on this "ridiculous" package? Wait, are these CD's and LP's blank?

I know, I have some nerve....

Post #25 has the whole album for your listening pleasure.

I'm terrible at trying to describe music. Though I think that if you liked the other releases, you'll probably like this too.

[chalkpie]

Post #25 has the whole album for your listening pleasure.

I'm terrible at trying to describe music. Though I think that if you liked the other releases, you'll probably like this too.

Go for it man!

[Hobo Chang Ba]

I would not be offended or upset by a stand alone CD release.

[spacefreak]

So, yes, it's a deception if you look at it that way. You changed the rules after purchases had been made. Had I known close to 400 would be available, then I could have waited awhile, and probably/maybe snagged a copy for much less. I do this all the time depending on what type of release it is, etc...

I think Dan can do it a slightly different way -in order not to offend those who purchased the original deluxe pressing- and be cheaper in order to satisfy those who place availability/rational price policy above collectability.

a. Issue a 2nd limited run as a regular cover release (not hand painted) and not gatefold
b. Omit the CD
c. Make it to coincide with a special occasion (f.e. Record Store Day)
d. Have slightly altered record labels

That way he could have a relatively cheaper 2nd pressing (as the master matrix is already kept in the pressing plant) satisfy more demand, and differentiate from the first die-hard edition.