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Thread: Trevor Rabin improved Yes!

  1. #1

    Trevor Rabin improved Yes!

    Well, you knew it had to happen!

  2. #2
    Insect Overlord Progatron's Avatar
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    Is he the guy who replaced Peter Banks in Mabel Greer's Toyshop?

    Rabin and Collins are soon to be touring together as The Ruiners. I read it on Wikipedia so it must be true.
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  3. #3
    I think TR helped create a fantastic YES-based band for the 80s. But in my mind that was still a band called Cinema, Jon or no Jon. It was not an improved Yes.

  4. #4
    I know it makes me a pariah for saying so, but I've always preferred Rabin to Howe. I came onboard with 90125, so I've always had a soft spot for YesWest.

    I'd actually love to see Yes hire Rabin for a three-album tour of 90125, Big Generator, and Talk. Howe could either sit it out or do some rhythm/acoustic stuff. It'll never happen, but a fan can dream ...

  5. #5
    If nothing else, Trevor Rabin ushered of Jon Anderson keeping tabs on anything Yes-related that he wasn't involved in, then showing up to force his vocals on them.

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    I would have put it that Trevor Rabin saved Yes, not improved. Without the 80s version of Yes, I don't think we would have seen them reform in the mid 90s to give us Keys to Ascension and then carry on from there like they have. And I don't think Yes fans give Rabin enough credit for helping keep Yes alive.

    But I could be wrong...

  7. #7
    The OP is of course entirely right. And the Yes fandom at large is finally coming to its senses - uninspired drivel like "Close To The Edge" or "Relayer" barely stands comparison with a masterpiece like "Big Generator".
    Calyx (Canterbury Scene) - http://www.calyx-canterbury.fr
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by calyx View Post
    a masterpiece like "Big Generator".
    I never rated "BG" as masterpiece (2 out of 5, in my view).

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by flowerking View Post
    I would have put it that Trevor Rabin saved Yes, not improved. Without the 80s version of Yes, I don't think we would have seen them reform in the mid 90s to give us Keys to Ascension and then carry on from there like they have. And I don't think Yes fans give Rabin enough credit for helping keep Yes alive.

    But I could be wrong...
    What about Trevor Horn?

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Guess Who View Post
    I never rated "BG" as masterpiece (2 out of 5, in my view).
    He was being sarcastic.

    In all seriousness, though, if anyone improved Yes, it was Mel Collins... by ruining Genesis.
    "The White Zone is for loading and unloading only. If you got to load or unload go to the White Zone!"

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Harbottle View Post
    What about Trevor Horn?
    I would say Horn salvaged Yes.
    "The White Zone is for loading and unloading only. If you got to load or unload go to the White Zone!"

  12. #12
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guess Who View Post
    I never rated "BG" as masterpiece (2 out of 5, in my view).
    Quote Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
    He was being sarcastic.
    Yeah - because no one, even Trevor Rabin's mother, rated BG as a masterpiece. "Well, it's just the same as the last one, isn't it dear? Just Tormato warmed over."

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    Quote Originally Posted by trurl View Post
    I think TR helped create a fantastic YES-based band for the 80s. But in my mind that was still a band called Cinema, Jon or no Jon. It was not an improved Yes.
    Can't say it better than this.

  14. #14
    Member Man In The Mountain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flowerking View Post
    Without the 80s version of Yes, I don't think we would have seen them reform in the mid 90s to give us Keys to Ascension and then carry on from there like they have.
    The 80's version of the band had no effect on me keeping up with the reunion in the 90's. In fact, the 80's YesWest made me lose interest in the band completely during that time. Never went to see Yeswest live, and took bathroom breaks for them on the Union tour. What saved YES, in the long term, was their legacy of epic music from the 70's.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian View Post
    I know it makes me a pariah for saying so, but I've always preferred Rabin to Howe.
    Same here. Although I respect Howe's abilities on guitar, I often questioned his taste. I suppose playing hillbilly licks in a British progressive rock band was an original concept, but for me, it was trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. I accepted it and was a fan of Yes' classic period, but when Rabin came into the fold, I thought, "ah, that's more like it!" People always talk about how he made Yes a pop band, but he also gave them a heavier sound. I liked his soloing a lot more than Howe's too. Just a personal opinion, folks!

    Quote Originally Posted by Guess Who View Post
    I never rated "BG" as masterpiece (2 out of 5, in my view).
    Well Calyx was just joking, but I didn't laugh because I think Big Generator was a good album. Not as good as 90125, but better than Talk imo. I'd agree that it's no CttE or Relayer, but that doesn't make it insignificant. I even like the title track, which isn't a popular opinion. It's heavy and it's got some "outside" guitar playing, something Howe wouldn't dream of doing.

    Okay, here's something few will dispute: Rabin is a much better singer.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by flowerking View Post
    I would have put it that Trevor Rabin saved Yes, not improved. Without the 80s version of Yes, I don't think we would have seen them reform in the mid 90s to give us Keys to Ascension and then carry on from there like they have. And I don't think Yes fans give Rabin enough credit for helping keep Yes alive.

    But I could be wrong...
    +1 to that...TR gave YES and raw-er GTR sound and ummph that aligned with what was going on in the '80's. Songs like Changes was a really nice evolution in their song-craft. Sadly they didn't have more tunes like that.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by trurl View Post
    I think TR helped create a fantastic YES-based band for the 80s. But in my mind that was still a band called Cinema, Jon or no Jon. It was not an improved Yes.
    Agreed. It wasn't Yes, but they did have some good material, IMO.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by No Pride View Post
    Although I respect Howe's abilities on guitar, I often questioned his taste. I suppose playing hillbilly licks in a British progressive rock band was an original concept, but for me, it was trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. I accepted it and was a fan of Yes' classic period, but when Rabin came into the fold, I thought, "ah, that's more like it!"
    There's a part of this I tangentially agree with - it's that Howe's stylistic idiosyncrasies, and I think you summed them up pretty well, felt odd in Asia, and I could perhaps extend that to some his Yes work, certainly "Tormato" (less so "Drama") and "KTA".

    However, they are a distinct and successful part of the early Yes sound, at least until "Tales From Topographic Oceans", and there's no way Rabin-style guitar would make those albums better in my view. "Relayer" is a distinct affair, almost a different Howe, a wilder version playing mostly Telecaster rather than Gibson Les Paul. I found it interesting that Rabin once declared he'd like to play "Sound Chaser". I could see him pulling that off, but whether his, in my view, sanitized metal-ish guitar-hero antics would make such a piece more "tasteful", I'm really not sure.

    I respect Rabin's musicianship and composition skills, but as far as "lapses in good taste" are concerned, I find much more to fault him with than Howe, to be honest. He seems influenced by the worst forms of stadium rock at least as much as he was informed by prog, and that mixture really blows hot and cold as far as I'm concerned, apart from YesWest coinciding with (imho) the worst period in rock's studio production values, which makes those albums difficult listens anyway.
    Calyx (Canterbury Scene) - http://www.calyx-canterbury.fr
    Legends In Their Own Lunchtime (blog) - https://canterburyscene.wordpress.com/
    My latest books : "Yes" (2017) - https://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/yes/ + "L'Ecole de Canterbury" (2016) - http://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/lecoledecanterbury/ + "King Crimson" (2012/updated 2018) - http://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/kingcrimson/
    Canterbury & prog interviews - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdf...IUPxUMA/videos

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by calyx View Post
    The OP is of course entirely right. And the Yes fandom at large is finally coming to its senses - uninspired drivel like "Close To The Edge" or "Relayer" barely stands comparison with a masterpiece like "Big Generator".
    In comparison to what Genesis put out in the 80's, i agree that BG could be considered a masterpiece!

  20. #20
    Member Paulrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by No Pride View Post
    It's heavy and it's got some "outside" guitar playing, something Howe wouldn't dream of doing.
    Yeah, cuz the guitar on "The Ancient" is so "inside".

    But it's really comparing apples to oranges. Rabin's flashiness is born out of his love of John McLaughlin, who is a contemporary of Steve's. At the time (circa '72) Steve demonstrated that he could also deliver the speedy stuff, but I always sense that for him it was an immediate cop-out to the sort of showy grandstanding that he's never been into. Steve has even admitted that his playing on the song "America" -- which to me showcases some of his tastiest soloing -- was a deliberate pander to the sort of guitar hero cliches going around at the time. So would I like it if he ripped it up more than he does? Sure, but I'd rather not sacrifice all the other amazing things he brings to the table.
    I'm holding out for the Wilson-mixed 5.1 super-duper walletbuster special anniversary extra adjectives edition.

  21. #21
    Member No Pride's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by calyx View Post
    There's a part of this I tangentially agree with - it's that Howe's stylistic idiosyncrasies, and I think you summed them up pretty well, felt odd in Asia, and I could perhaps extend that to some his Yes work, certainly "Tormato" (less so "Drama") and "KTA".

    However, they are a distinct and successful part of the early Yes sound, at least until "Tales From Topographic Oceans", and there's no way Rabin-style guitar would make those albums better in my view. "Relayer" is a distinct affair, almost a different Howe, a wilder version playing mostly Telecaster rather than Gibson Les Paul. I found it interesting that Rabin once declared he'd like to play "Sound Chaser". I could see him pulling that off, but whether his, in my view, sanitized metal-ish guitar-hero antics would make such a piece more "tasteful", I'm really not sure.

    I respect Rabin's musicianship and composition skills, but as far as "lapses in good taste" are concerned, I find much more to fault him with than Howe, to be honest. He seems influenced by the worst forms of stadium rock at least as much as he was informed by prog, and that mixture really blows hot and cold as far as I'm concerned, apart from YesWest coinciding with (imho) the worst period in rock's studio production values, which makes those albums difficult listens anyway.
    "Relayer" is the one Yes album that I loved Howe's playing on, every minute of it!

    As for Rabin; yes there was a large dose of '80s metal in his playing, but there was some fusion and other stuff in it too. I think he spent some time listening to John McLaughlin, among others. I wouldn't be interested in even imagining him replacing Howe on the classic albums, BUT... have you heard his recent solo album, "Jacaranda?" There isn't a shred of "pop" on the whole thing and he has developed a very progressive style of composing with multiple genres integrating seamlessly. If Yes and Rabin joined forces today (and Trevor was allowed the kind of input he had with YesWest), they might very well make one of their most progressive albums in decades.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulrus View Post
    Yeah, cuz the guitar on "The Ancient" is so "inside".
    Is that on TFTO? Believe it or not, I've never heard it. I've never heard Tormato either. I've said it in other threads, I'm not a completist. I have thought about downloading Tales from iTunes though. I'll get around to it.

    And of course you're right; Howe vs. Rabin = Apples vs. Oranges. All I'm saying is that Rabin's style is my personal preference. Your mileage may (and probably will) vary.

  23. #23
    Oh No! Bass Solo! klothos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by No Pride View Post
    Same here. Although I respect Howe's abilities on guitar, I often questioned his taste. I suppose playing hillbilly licks in a British progressive rock band was an original concept, but for me, it was trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.
    Same: I prefer Rabin over Howe -- Howe kinda wore me out on hearing harmonics used as song textures. It was great the first ten times he did it but.................

  24. #24
    It took me a long time to warm up to Steve's country guitar approach when I first discovered Yes in the 70s- I had simply never heard anyone play like that in a rock context. I grew to love it, and I still do. But Steve's role in Yes isn't just about that; he was fundamental to writing my favorite Yes pieces, and probably had a large uncredited hand in arranging a lot of songs credited officially to just Jon. Anderson/Howe is the central writing axis in Yes imho. So while I really have the utmost respect for TR as a player, and really consider him to be about the best of the 80s style of guitarists, he just isn't the sound of Yes for me. (He does sound better playing Steve's songs than Steve does playing his though )

  25. #25
    Member gearHed289's Avatar
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    I used to LOVE Steve Howe's playing, then, in more recent years, I started to find some of it grating. I've lately warmed up to it again though. Been on a bit of a YES binge lately since my 11 yo daughter now lists YES and Rush as her favorite bands. As for Rabin, I always loved his work too. I think the timing was perfect for a player like him to come into the fold. Plus he's a skilled keyboardist and excellent singer, and writer. Jacaranda is fantastic! And, like a couple have already said, it's apples and oranges.

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