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Thread: 30 Minutes With … Rick Wakeman: 'Punk was a revolution ... things had to change'

  1. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy Bender View Post
    When I heard US punk bands like X, Bad Religion, Black Flag and especially The Dead Kennedys, I got on board with that too.
    Dead Kennedys in the mid 80s in Chicago was one of the best concerts I've ever seen. Enjoyed it more than Genesis (my first concert ever in the late 70s), Yes on their 90125 tour, or King Crimson on the 3 of a Perfect Pair tour. Saw those concerts at the height of my personal prog mania and enjoyed all three, but the DKs were just phenomenal. Anyone who thinks they didn't possess great talent or musicianship is woefully mistaken. Saw Black Flag as well in Chicago (Rollins actually had really long hair then). They were good. A lot of the punk shows I saw ended amongst my favorite concert memories, rivaled only by a few Buddy Guy shows in the late 80s / early-mid 90s (when he and his band of the time scorched and had real energy), and some Hammill (esp Cleveland '90) and VdGG (RFH London & Glasgow '05; Milwaukee '09) concerts, but then VdGG always had as much in common with the punk ethos as they did the prog...

  2. #27
    Member Yodelgoat's Avatar
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    Wakeman could crap on a platter and I'd probaly enjoy hearing about it (not that I'd like to smell it). What a great guy. What a great contribution to the quality of my life he has been. Much like most of the pople in Yes. What isthe story wit his latest marriage? - Is that still going on?

    Gotts get me a copy of Grumpy old Rock Star.

    BTW Did Rick ever do any serious work on classical peices? - as a Pianist?

  3. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Progatron View Post
    Yes, Grumpy Old Rock Star and Further Adventures, both of which I have, and enjoyed reading, although it's worth mentioning that Rick's story embellishments get a little tiresome. There's no WAY these things all happened exactly the way he describes them. He's a humorous guy, and knows how to tell a story, but take them with a grain of salt.
    And there was "Say Yes" before those too.

    Henry
    Where Are They Now? Yes news: http://www.bondegezou.co.uk/wh_now.htm
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  4. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Yodelgoat View Post
    BTW Did Rick ever do any serious work on classical peices? - as a Pianist?
    The fact that he employed a classical piano player (David Wilde) on the Lisztomania soundtrack shows that he wasn't really ambitious (or confident?) in the field of 'serious' classical Grand Piano performances.

  5. #30
    Member Paulrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bondegezou View Post
    And there was "Say Yes" before those too.
    That's the one I have, but it came out during his heaviest Christian period so the takeaway is "I was a talented rock star with the world at my feet, but then I pissed it all away. Thank God Jesus saved me."
    I'm holding out for the Wilson-mixed 5.1 super-duper walletbuster special anniversary extra adjectives edition.

  6. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Toothyspook View Post
    I am sure Jeremy will reply in his time but..............

    As you mentioned, Going for the One, I was at those gigs where Donovan supported.
    But when punk took off it wasnt just punk rockers who atended the gigs. Yes they were the ones at the front. But punk, particularly the gigs, seemed to draw in a lot of different people. Maybe on my part it was curiosity at the time. The hype was massive. It was not compulsary though to dislike the progressive music you had enjoyed pre punk. Nick Mason for example produced The Damneds album (yes I know Pink Floyd are not prog). The gigs were something else and I honestly had a great time during those couple of years. But like all fads I grew out of it and I do think those, like me, who had previously enjoyed progressive music went back to it. I, for one, still enjoyed Yes but I also enjoyed the fun side of those punk days.
    Supposedly, the Damned wanted Syd Barrett but got Nick Mason instead, much to their disappointment.

  7. #32
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    That all sounds reasonable enough, but please answer me this: As someone who liked the first wave prog and then liked punk why wasn't it possible to enjoy both?
    It was possible and I did, I just never wrapped my identity up in a style of music like so many people do. A lot of it is how I've listened to music since the late 70's, too. My first musical "Oh my gawd!!!" moment was hearing Cream in 1968, as an 8 year old. Except for ELP 1970-74, I've never been one to constantly listen to something, I "get it" and then move on to the next thing, there's a whole universe of music out there waiting for me to listen to. I've met opera fans who have listened to the same 20 recordings since the 70's and little else that's come out since, I just don't get that attitude at all.

    My first contact with prog was listening to a copy of the first ELP that my older sister had, this would have been summer 1974. Great time to get in to them, just as they were about to disappear for 2 1/2 years! I bought all the ELP albums available then (ST > WBMF), heard Relayer in a record store in early 1975, got the Yes stuff from Fragile > TFTO. I listened to that stuff constantly because it was so musically dense. At some point in 1975 I got the King Crimson catalog (again, great timing!), Genesis and Pink Floyd too. By about 1976, I knew every note on those albums by heart, it was turning in to background music. I went off on a big classical binge after getting an LP of Ginastera's two piano concertos, explored a bunch of 20th century stuff and I started to explore jazz via Miles and Coltrane. Punk came along and I got in to that, which lead to PiL/Echo & The Bunnymen/Simple Minds and other British "new wave" stuff, which lead to US indie stuff like REM (who I went absolutely nuts for), Husker Du and The Minutemen, which lead to etc. etc. etc.

    When Yes came out with Going For The One was it required to loathe it if you liked punk? I mean, it wasn't that far off what they'd done in the past. Or Genesis with A Trick of the Tail. That's some damn fine music, so why did it have to be one or the other?
    I didn't like GFTO at all, I hated the title track, overall it felt like Anderson was becoming way too much of a twee hippie and I didn't like Awaken after the first 5:30 or so at all. The album felt like a retreat in to a formula, a musical retreat after the era of 28 minute live versions of Ritual. As for Genesis, I simply never liked Phil Collins voice as a lead singer, it had/has a whiny, shrill edge *to me* that I find really unpleasant. Again, TOTT felt like a retreat to a formula.

    I never cared about the tribal aspects of listening to music, being part of a "scene" or whatnot, that stuff bores me to tears, so I never felt like I was obligated to give a damn about Wind & Wuthering or Tormato. I still remember meeting these guys at the first Los Angeles Progfest at UCLA in 1993 (I went because of IQ) and they were astonished that I listened to music other than prog. I couldn't get away from them fast enough......

    But like all fads I grew out of it and I do think those, like me, who had previously enjoyed progressive music went back to it
    Me too, I was a huge Fish-era Marillion fan (though I'm now a total h-era fan, I haven't listened to the Fish-era stuff since the last century), loved the Geoff Mann Twelfth Night and IQ. However, I was under no illusion, that stuff was pure revivalism, the prog equivalent of Green Day and punk, there wasn't anything "progressive" about it at all.

    Anyone who thinks they didn't possess great talent or musicianship is woefully mistaken
    Yep, great songwriting vibe with DK's, plus to play that stuff at the tempos they did wasn't easy. They have one of my very favorite bits of lyrics:

    Thank you for the toilet paper
    But your flag's meaningless to me
    Look around, we're all people
    Who needs countrys anyway?


    Pol Pot, Pol Pot, Pol Pot........
    Last edited by Jeremy Bender; 01-16-2014 at 05:52 PM.
    ...or you could love

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Progatron View Post
    Yes, Grumpy Old Rock Star and Further Adventures, both of which I have, and enjoyed reading, although it's worth mentioning that Rick's story embellishments get a little tiresome. There's no WAY these things all happened exactly the way he describes them. He's a humorous guy, and knows how to tell a story, but take them with a grain of salt.
    Heck, that pretty much applies to most of Yes...

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bucka001 View Post
    then VdGG always had as much in common with the punk ethos as they did the prog...
    No they didn't.

  10. #35
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    We should distinguish between enjoying punk music and judging other forms of music from the perspective of 70s UK punk ideology.

  11. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Homburg View Post
    No they didn't.
    We'll agree to disagree on that one

  12. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Homburg View Post
    We should distinguish between enjoying punk music and judging other forms of music from the perspective of 70s UK punk ideology.
    I am amused by modern-day punks.

    I have a relative who is a historical re-enactor, dresses up as a Viking. That's what I think about some modern punk: it's a bunch of kids dressing up as something from before they were born. Which may well be a lot of fun.

    Henry
    Where Are They Now? Yes news: http://www.bondegezou.co.uk/wh_now.htm
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  13. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by bondegezou View Post
    I am amused by modern-day punks.

    I have a relative who is a historical re-enactor, dresses up as a Viking. That's what I think about some modern punk: it's a bunch of kids dressing up as something from before they were born. Which may well be a lot of fun.

    Henry
    Do bands / kids actually do that (the modern day punk thing)? Haven't seen too many, but yeah I'm with you if that's the case. Not much different than some of my pals in high school who were *really* into the 60s (about 15-20 years after the fact) and dressed like something out of Haight Ashbury on their way home from a Jefferson Airplane concert.

  14. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucka001 View Post
    Do bands / kids actually do that (the modern day punk thing)?
    Yes (some).

    Henry
    Where Are They Now? Yes news: http://www.bondegezou.co.uk/wh_now.htm
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  15. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by bondegezou View Post
    Yes (some).

    Henry
    Ah well, every generation has kids in it that wish they were part of something twenty years (or more) before.

  16. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Paulrus View Post
    That all sounds reasonable enough, but please answer me this: As someone who liked the first wave prog and then liked punk why wasn't it possible to enjoy both?
    I don't even recall there being a "punk vs. prog" controversy back then, but then again I wasn't a big consumer of music publications; bought Cream once in awhile and that was it. I was sad to see prog fizzling out but I also embraced some of the more melodic bands such as Elvis Costello, Joe Jackson, The Jam, and later on The Clash, if any of them could be considered "punk." Since prog was on the way out, I looked for other things and enjoyed these bands along with the whole Rockpile/Nick Lowe/Dave Edmunds triumvirate.
    You say Mega Ultra Deluxe Special Limited Edition Extended Autographed 5-LP, 3-CD, 4-DVD, 2-BlueRay, 4-Cassette, five 8-Track, MP4 Download plus Demos, Outtakes, Booklet, T-Shirt and Guitar Pick Gold-Leafed Box Set Version like it's a bad thing...

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garden Dreamer View Post
    I don't even recall there being a "punk vs. prog" controversy back then, but then again I wasn't a big consumer of music publications;
    In the influential British music press there very definitely was. It was very one-sided in fact, nearly all prog-bashing. People who cared about being hip took up these attitudes. Of course there were people who didn't care and enjoyed both sorts of music.

    In my opinion the likes of Elvis Costello, Joe Jackson and Rockpile could have come to prominence without punk having existed.

  18. #43
    Member Paulrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bucka001 View Post
    Do bands / kids actually do that (the modern day punk thing)?
    Some are into re-creating the whole Sid Viscious image, but it seems to have regional flavors these days. I know my 25-year old niece was part of that crowd back in her late teens, but that was down in Santa Cruz (which is a California beach town) so it had a distinct emo/surf slant to it. Instead of mohawks the dress code requires lots and lots of tattoos. Charming.
    I'm holding out for the Wilson-mixed 5.1 super-duper walletbuster special anniversary extra adjectives edition.

  19. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Paulrus View Post
    Some are into re-creating the whole Sid Viscious image, but it seems to have regional flavors these days. I know my 25-year old niece was part of that crowd back in her late teens, but that was down in Santa Cruz (which is a California beach town) so it had a distinct emo/surf slant to it. Instead of mohawks the dress code requires lots and lots of tattoos. Charming.
    Yeah, not a good idea with the tats. They may grow out of this, but the tats will linger...

  20. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucka001 View Post
    Yeah, not a good idea with the tats. They may grow out of this, but the tats will linger...
    Do any famous prog musicians have tattoos?

    Henry

    PS: Obviously one former Yes member worked with Russian duo t.A.T.u.
    Where Are They Now? Yes news: http://www.bondegezou.co.uk/wh_now.htm
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  21. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Homburg View Post
    No they didn't.

    Don't forget that Hammill sang with the Stranglers during Hugh Cornwell's incarceration.

    Other punk/prog links: Clive Bunker played most of the drums on the second Generation X album. And Geoffrey Richardson (Caravan) played viola on a Buzzcocks single.

  22. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by bondegezou View Post
    Do any famous prog musicians have tattoos?
    Well, if they're 'famous' prog musicians, they probably won't have to go for a job interview some day. But that kid might and, while in a perfect world it shouldn't matter, it usually does!

  23. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucka001 View Post
    Well, if they're 'famous' prog musicians, they probably won't have to go for a job interview some day. But that kid might and, while in a perfect world it shouldn't matter, it usually does!
    Man, listen to me. "Get off my lawn, you kids!!"

  24. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Homburg View Post
    In the influential British music press there very definitely was. It was very one-sided in fact, nearly all prog-bashing. People who cared about being hip took up these attitudes.
    Yup, I"ve done a lot of research (seen every old MM & NME) on that stuff and you're pretty spot on. That's why Malcolm McLaren was appalled / shocked when Johnny Rotten did his (now legendary) Capitol Radio interview in '77 where he was asked to bring and play his fave records and revealed himself to be a major VdGG/Hammill, Capt Beefheart, Can, Tim Buckley fan. From the reports, McLaren just about shit himself.

  25. #50
    Several of the biggest punks I knew were into prog, they just started punk bands because they couldn't really play.

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