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Thread: MIDI Questions

  1. #1
    Member Haruspex Carnage's Avatar
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    MIDI Questions

    Hey guys, maybe you can help me out here...

    i have a Warr guitar and am looking to develop my MIDI side of it...it has a 13 prong input...and i've gone through floor models like the Roland GR-55...but was wondering what exactly i'd need to say do the following: trigger samples/loops/mp3 files/etc. by hitting select assigned notes as well as get and tamper with all those kinds of synth effects?

    i thought there might be some way to just use a program through my laptop and bypass this expensive floor model nonsense but there doesn't seem to be any 13 prong to usb cables...and the whole thing with MIDI controllers is sort of lost on me as well...do i even need one or a floor model because i have a MIDI input etc?

    Thanks and let me know if possible.

  2. #2
    Oh No! Bass Solo! klothos's Avatar
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    I need a little more information about you want to apply it

    i.e "I want to hit a note and have it trigger a loop, then hit another note and have it trigger another loop, then play on top of it"

    for the record, the above scenario CAN be done but it will be such a pain-in-the-ass, you wont want to do it

    also, you will have to use the Floor Model as a pitch-to-voltage transformer to go from your guitar/13-pin DIN to either the 5-pin MIDI din "Out" Or (preferred) USB "Out" to trigger the program(s)/VSTi on the laptop (USB)
    Last edited by klothos; 12-25-2013 at 10:16 PM.

  3. #3
    Member Haruspex Carnage's Avatar
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    Ahah grrreeat...alright for instance like...sort of what you mentioned...although it wouldn't be a continuous stream of me hitting note after note...think like what Gunn does in Deception Of The Thrush if you're familiar...warped voices from TS Elliot poems.

    So basically there's no way around the floor model into a MIDI controller into the laptop then huh? Shucks.

  4. #4
    Member Burble's Avatar
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    Hi!

    Not to be pedantic, but I think there are some vocabulary issues at work here.

    The 13-pin cable isn't MIDI, so it probably goes to some proprietary interface that spits MIDI (or other formats) out the other side. You need to get out through the 5-pin output before the guitar is actually speaking MIDI.

    The things you specifically mention - samples, loops, and mp3 files - aren't really MIDI functions. MIDI functions are notes and bend ranges and things like that translated into data that another synthesizer can read; basically triggering information and parameters. Samples and loops and mp3 data are all produced from actual audio, and are better relegated to the world of audio. You can do most of this stuff with freeware or things like Garageband, which pretty much comes with any computer these days.

    On the other hand, if you want to use the guitar to control other synthesizers, or produce music data for a program that reads MIDI, then I'd brush up on whatever the interface is that goes from your guitar to MIDI. (Sorry - I don't know what the 13-pin guitar platform is. :=/ )

    I think the misunderstanding MIDI vs. audio is at fault for some people being totally dissatisfied with MIDI, and at the same time, others not taking advantage of it.

  5. #5
    Oh No! Bass Solo! klothos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haruspex Carnage View Post
    Ahah grrreeat...alright for instance like...sort of what you mentioned...although it wouldn't be a continuous stream of me hitting note after note...think like what Gunn does in Deception Of The Thrush if you're familiar...warped voices from TS Elliot poems.

    So basically there's no way around the floor model into a MIDI controller into the laptop then huh? Shucks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Burble View Post
    Hi!

    Not to be pedantic, but I think there are some vocabulary issues at work here.

    The 13-pin cable isn't MIDI, so it probably goes to some proprietary interface that spits MIDI (or other formats) out the other side. You need to get out through the 5-pin output before the guitar is actually speaking MIDI.

    The things you specifically mention - samples, loops, and mp3 files - aren't really MIDI functions. MIDI functions are notes and bend ranges and things like that translated into data that another synthesizer can read; basically triggering information and parameters. Samples and loops and mp3 data are all produced from actual audio, and are better relegated to the world of audio. You can do most of this stuff with freeware or things like Garageband, which pretty much comes with any computer these days.

    On the other hand, if you want to use the guitar to control other synthesizers, or produce music data for a program that reads MIDI, then I'd brush up on whatever the interface is that goes from your guitar to MIDI. (Sorry - I don't know what the 13-pin guitar platform is. :=/ )

    I think the misunderstanding MIDI vs. audio is at fault for some people being totally dissatisfied with MIDI, and at the same time, others not taking advantage of it.
    Im going to pick up where Burble left off:

    First, understand that your guitar serves as the MIDI contoller and that your GR-55 serves as the MIDI interface. It is an interface with a built-in - or what is called a "local" - sound source - but the GR-55 allows you the option to use other sound sources by implementing MIDI, a way to communicate with other devices.

    Second, here is some quick MIDI basics concerning guitar/MIDI --- A guitar midi interface is basically a pitch to voltage converter. Say you hit an open low "E" in standard tuning, your system doesnt actually understand the string sound but will understand its pitch (82 hz). This pitch is assigned a MIDI note number (usually 52 for a guitar low E - corresponds with the same 82hz for piano)......the same goes for the pitch for a guitars lowest F (MIDI note number 53), F# (MIDI note number 54), etc etc (and all these can be transposed if that option exists on either your interface or the slave unit)


    Its primarily this number information you are dealing with (there is a LOT of other important data as well - such as velocity - but Im just giving you a basic understanding)

    and its "data" that MIDI deals with (to emphasize Burble's post)...it isnt "sounds" or "samples" : its just a way that machines communicate data with each other.

    So, when you play a note on the guitar, the GR-55 interprets this as a Note Number of pitch for whatever sound you are using. You CAN interface this with a hardware or software sampler - you can assign your loop to the sampler's key which corresponds to your low E,/piano E key at 82 hz/Note Number 52, you can put a voice sample on the F key for Note Number 53, etc etc --- and, if you understand how im explaining this you can see why I said this would be a pain-in-the-ass: any little movement on the guitar/contoller can possibly set off any note just by vibrations or human movement PLUS you have to be meticulous about picking and fretting for the same reason. This is more forgiving with a synth, but a sampler with loops, orchestra hits, big chords, voice samples, etc will sound like cacophony if you keep triggering these randomly by vibration ("Sensitivity" and "Velocity" are two MIDI control functions which can be set to help this in guitar-controller sit-down studio situations but I haven't seen these implemented to make "guitar-controllers-controlling-loops-and-samples-on-a sampler" practical in live play)

    With this understood, what you can do is trigger other devices using your GR-55 Floor Unit as the interface. The GR-55 has a MIDI "Out" to go into external hardware devices but the GR-55 ALSO has a USB send. The port on the GR-55 is a Type B port so a Type B to Type A cord ( a typical USB Printer cord) will do the trick.

    You can use the GR-55's USB out into your laptop to access virtual synthesizers and samplers the same way you could use the 5-pin DIN MIDI Out to access another MIDI capable hardware device with 5-pin DIN ports.

    With this, there are numerous issues and the main one is latency. Because i would have to type a novel to explain in detail what this is and why it exists, I will just skip that and give a simple explanation: depending on the speed of the CPU and how fast the GR-55 can send data, you will experience a delay in signal when you strike a note and the sound to playback.

    Further, you should have a huge understanding of MIDI (both hardware and software) and understand the limitations of your machine(s) so that you can set them up properly with the least amount of issues (such as minimal latency).

    The best thing to do to learn is to try it and experiment (learn by doing), and read up on as much information about MIDI

    Good Luck
    Last edited by klothos; 12-27-2013 at 12:17 PM.

  6. #6
    Member Haruspex Carnage's Avatar
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    Thanks guys!

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