Page 1 of 9 12345 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 211

Thread: Canterbury binge 2013-2014

  1. #1
    chalkpie
    Guest

    Canterbury binge 2013-2014

    Started early this year. All Canterbury, all the time.

    I have a bit of a head start, but I have heard National Health s/t at least 7 times on repeat in my car. I think I dig it as much as "Of Queues" at this point. Of course Dave always gets the limelight, but major credit also has to go to Alan Gowen's sick-ass Moog solos, as well as Phil's playing. I can honestly say that Phil Miller is top 10 guitarist for me for the same reason that FZ is, which is a totally unique and brilliant rhythmic approach to playing the guitar. His solos are works of art. I love his slightly laid-back feel, as if he is almost behind the beat but he really isn't. To get a sense of just how good this guy is, I was imagining trying to transcribe his playing, especially the solo on "Elephants". It would take a lot of knowledge and skill to learn that beast. Just gorgeous stuff.

    "Robert Wyatt '68" can also be considered one of the finest Canterbury albums - certainly top 30 or so.

    Who's in? Do it! One of my favorite musical binges of the year, if not number one.

    canterbury.jpg

  2. #2
    I've been on this particular binge so long I'd like to get off !

    All things considered, no, I'll continue.

    Agree with every word of the above - I just *love* the instrumental set-up for that first National Health album, just gorgeous.
    Calyx (Canterbury Scene) - http://www.calyx-canterbury.fr
    Legends In Their Own Lunchtime (blog) - https://canterburyscene.wordpress.com/
    My latest books : "Yes" (2017) - https://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/yes/ + "L'Ecole de Canterbury" (2016) - http://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/lecoledecanterbury/ + "King Crimson" (2012/updated 2018) - http://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/kingcrimson/
    Canterbury & prog interviews - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdf...IUPxUMA/videos

  3. #3
    The first National Health album is probably my personal fave, and a good chunk of the reason why Dave Stewart is my favorite of the 70's keyboard giants.
    If you're actually reading this then chances are you already have my last album but if NOT and you're curious:
    https://battema.bandcamp.com/

    Also, Ephemeral Sun: it's a thing and we like making things that might be your thing: https://ephemeralsun.bandcamp.com

  4. #4
    Had me the following during last weekend:

    Hatfield - The Rotter's Club
    Matching Mole - [both]
    Khan - Space Shanty
    Daevid Allen - Good Morning!
    National Health - Queues
    Hugh Hopper - Hopper-Tunity Box (the vinyl one, on Compendium)
    Egg - The Polite Force
    Caravan - BBC Sessions
    Robert Wyatt - Ruth Is Stranger Than Richard (side two, the "Muddy Mouse/Mouth"

    And a bit on the side:
    Lol Coxhill - Ear of the Beholder
    David Bedford - Rime of the Ancient Mariner
    Greaves/Blegvad - Kew. Rhone
    John G. Perry - Sunset Wading
    Michael Mantler - The Hapless Child
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  5. #5
    Is Hillage, Khan and Gong really considered to be Canterbury???

  6. #6
    Member hippypants's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    2,134
    It's hard to beat. Been on a Robert Wyatt binge, and pulled out the National Health's Complete the other night. I was wondering if anyone had read anything on how Wyatt composed his songs. I don't know much about him other than he played drums for Soft Machine, and Matching Mole. What Matching Mole do you like best. I have Smoke Signals (the live one, I think that's the title).

  7. #7
    Boo! walt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Oakland Gardens NY
    Posts
    5,625
    I spun Phil Miller-Fred Baker-Double Up cd last night.Always a pleasure to hear this.Hopefully i'm not the only one here who digs this.
    "please do not understand me too quickly"-andre gide

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by progman1975 View Post
    Is Hillage, Khan and Gong really considered to be Canterbury???
    Yes.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  9. #9
    Member Lebofsky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Oakland, California
    Posts
    113
    I like the first National Health album so much that in college I had a red t-shirt made that said in black letters "NATIONAL HEALTH" - in other words an exact replica of the shirt that Neil Murray is wearing on the front cover. I still have it and wear it on special occasions.

    - Matt

  10. #10
    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Fluffy Cloud
    Posts
    5,635
    Quote Originally Posted by Lebofsky View Post
    I like the first National Health album so much that in college I had a red t-shirt made that said in black letters "NATIONAL HEALTH" - in other words an exact replica of the shirt that Neil Murray is wearing on the front cover. I still have it and wear it on special occasions.

    - Matt
    NERD-O!
    Steve F.

    www.waysidemusic.com
    www.cuneiformrecords.com

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    “Remember, if it doesn't say "Cuneiform," it's not prog!” - THE Jed Levin

    Any time any one speaks to me about any musical project, the one absolute given is "it will not make big money". [tip of the hat to HK]

    "Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"

    please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Lebofsky View Post
    I like the first National Health album so much that in college I had a red t-shirt made that said in black letters "NATIONAL HEALTH" - in other words an exact replica of the shirt that Neil Murray is wearing on the front cover.
    Sorry Matt but this can't be an exact replica as Neil was wearing his back to front. (Priceless bit of trivia)
    Last edited by calyx; 12-17-2013 at 01:06 PM.
    Calyx (Canterbury Scene) - http://www.calyx-canterbury.fr
    Legends In Their Own Lunchtime (blog) - https://canterburyscene.wordpress.com/
    My latest books : "Yes" (2017) - https://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/yes/ + "L'Ecole de Canterbury" (2016) - http://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/lecoledecanterbury/ + "King Crimson" (2012/updated 2018) - http://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/kingcrimson/
    Canterbury & prog interviews - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdf...IUPxUMA/videos

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by progman1975 View Post
    Is Hillage, Khan and Gong really considered to be Canterbury???
    No simple answer to that.

    - Khan I'd say was somewhere between Canterbury (a good dose of it), prog and a little psych.
    - Gong I don't think is primarily Canterbury, more like space-prog musically with some definitely un-prog lyrical/conceptual content; but with family ties to the larger Canterbury family there were a number of players with "Canterbury" leanings, for example Pip Pyle in the "Camembert" era who introduced odd meters, Hillage with songs like "I Never Glid Before" (originally by Khan)... I would argue that Gong was at its "Canterbury-est" in the short period between Daevid Allen leaving and the "Shamal" album, especially when it had Patrice Lemoine on keys, who played Rhodes, fuzz Lowrey organ (like Ratledge) and Minimoog.
    - Steve Hillage : half of "Fish Rising" was leftovers from the late Khan days, so see above. The rest of the album is more in the Gong vein. Subsequently Hillage moved away from any specific Canterbury leanings (what I would call the jazzier side of his early solo stuff), to a simpler, more repetitive and electronic-based form of space-prog-rock. "Green" I think is particularly successful in this vein but there's little of it I'd describe as "Canterbury"...
    Calyx (Canterbury Scene) - http://www.calyx-canterbury.fr
    Legends In Their Own Lunchtime (blog) - https://canterburyscene.wordpress.com/
    My latest books : "Yes" (2017) - https://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/yes/ + "L'Ecole de Canterbury" (2016) - http://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/lecoledecanterbury/ + "King Crimson" (2012/updated 2018) - http://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/kingcrimson/
    Canterbury & prog interviews - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdf...IUPxUMA/videos

  13. #13
    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    7,765
    Quote Originally Posted by calyx View Post
    Sorry Matt but this can't be an exact replica as Neil was wearing his back to front. (Priceless bit of trivia)
    Aymeric, sometimes you scare me.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post
    Aymeric, sometimes you scare me.
    It's only scary if you assume I *care* for this stuff. I just *know* it.

    (To make you less scared - I'm now wondering if that National Health t-shirt was really back to front. Actually I think Neil told me that about his "more bass" t-shirt that you see on the Bruford OGWT TV show)
    Calyx (Canterbury Scene) - http://www.calyx-canterbury.fr
    Legends In Their Own Lunchtime (blog) - https://canterburyscene.wordpress.com/
    My latest books : "Yes" (2017) - https://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/yes/ + "L'Ecole de Canterbury" (2016) - http://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/lecoledecanterbury/ + "King Crimson" (2012/updated 2018) - http://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/kingcrimson/
    Canterbury & prog interviews - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdf...IUPxUMA/videos

  15. #15
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Iowa City IA
    Posts
    2,436
    Quote Originally Posted by chalkpie View Post
    Started early this year. All Canterbury, all the time.

    I have a bit of a head start, but I have heard National Health s/t at least 7 times on repeat in my car.
    As much as I love that album, there's no way I could listen to it 7 times in the car without getting into an accident! It is such dense music. I also never put on Wetton-era Crimson or Yes' Relayer in the car for the same reason. Well, anyway, glad that you emerged unscathed from the experience.

  16. #16
    Recently Resurrected zombywoof's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Sunset Blvd.
    Posts
    385
    Quote Originally Posted by calyx View Post
    No simple answer to that.

    - Khan I'd say was somewhere between Canterbury (a good dose of it), prog and a little psych.
    - Gong I don't think is primarily Canterbury, more like space-prog musically with some definitely un-prog lyrical/conceptual content; but with family ties to the larger Canterbury family there were a number of players with "Canterbury" leanings, for example Pip Pyle in the "Camembert" era who introduced odd meters, Hillage with songs like "I Never Glid Before" (originally by Khan)... I would argue that Gong was at its "Canterbury-est" in the short period between Daevid Allen leaving and the "Shamal" album, especially when it had Patrice Lemoine on keys, who played Rhodes, fuzz Lowrey organ (like Ratledge) and Minimoog.
    - Steve Hillage : half of "Fish Rising" was leftovers from the late Khan days, so see above. The rest of the album is more in the Gong vein. Subsequently Hillage moved away from any specific Canterbury leanings (what I would call the jazzier side of his early solo stuff), to a simpler, more repetitive and electronic-based form of space-prog-rock. "Green" I think is particularly successful in this vein but there's little of it I'd describe as "Canterbury"...
    What about Henry Cow? Comus? Mike Oldfield? Three artists who lived and played with the Canterbury guys and share some occasional Canterbury-esque sounds.

    Thoughts?

  17. #17
    I LOVE Elephants the way this piece evolves through its different parts from the angular dissonant intro to the slow ethernal melting ending -magic
    that one and squarer for maud must be my fav National Health moments

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by zombywoof View Post
    What about Henry Cow? Comus? Mike Oldfield? Three artists who lived and played with the Canterbury guys and share some occasional Canterbury-esque sounds.

    Thoughts?
    My knowledge of Comus is very limited. They had a pre-Henry Cow Lindsay Cooper in the band (unrecorded period) ca. 1971-72, so there's a link. In 1973-74 a temporary line-up recorded their second album for Virgin with Cooper and Didier Malherbe as guests, but I guess the ties with the Canterbury scene go no further than that.

    Henry Cow had a strong Soft Machine "Volume Two" influence in the early years, which is still apparent on "Leg End" (as it was on the early Egg albums for the same reasons). Frith has claimed to have been influenced by Phil Miller, Matching Mole-era, in his lead playing (he had more of a folk background). With "Unrest" the band's sound moved away from Canterbury stylings to develop a more personal style which became known as chamber rock or RIO, while also exploring radical free improv. There are similarities between this and some Hatfield stuff like the "Homerton" suite, but that's because Dave Stewart wrote that for the Ottawa Company which at one point also involved all of Henry Cow.

    Mike Oldfield ? I don't think there's anything Canterbury in his music. Perhaps some remnants in the more "out there" sections of "Tubular Bells", but beyond that, nothing imho.
    Last edited by calyx; 12-17-2013 at 05:08 PM.
    Calyx (Canterbury Scene) - http://www.calyx-canterbury.fr
    Legends In Their Own Lunchtime (blog) - https://canterburyscene.wordpress.com/
    My latest books : "Yes" (2017) - https://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/yes/ + "L'Ecole de Canterbury" (2016) - http://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/lecoledecanterbury/ + "King Crimson" (2012/updated 2018) - http://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/kingcrimson/
    Canterbury & prog interviews - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdf...IUPxUMA/videos

  19. #19
    I'm here for the moosic NogbadTheBad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    10,222
    I'm IN.
    Ian

    Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on progrock.com
    https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-a...re-happy-hour/

    Gordon Haskell - "You've got to keep the groove in your head and play a load of bollocks instead"
    I blame Wynton, what was the question?
    There are only 10 types of people in the World, those who understand binary and those that don't.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by walt View Post
    I spun Phil Miller-Fred Baker-Double Up cd last night.Always a pleasure to hear this.Hopefully i'm not the only one here who digs this.
    An excellent CD.

  21. #21
    I'm in.........not that a 'Canterbury' related album is ever really that far from the stereo. But yes, I will step it up a bit.

  22. #22
    Sounds good. I'm in.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by calyx View Post
    My knowledge of Comus is very limited. They had a pre-Henry Cow Lindsay Cooper in the band (unrecorded period) ca. 1971-72, so there's a link. In 1973-74 a temporary line-up recorded their second album for Virgin with Cooper and Didier Malherbe as guests, but I guess the ties with the Canterbury scene go no further than that.

    Henry Cow had a strong Soft Machine "Volume Two" influence in the early years, which is still apparent on "Leg End" (as it was on the early Egg albums for the same reasons). Frith has claimed to have been influenced by Phil Miller, Matching Mole-era, in his lead playing (he had more of a folk background). With "Unrest" the band's sound moved away from Canterbury stylings to develop a more personal style which became known as chamber rock or RIO, while also exploring radical free improv. There are similarities between this and some Hatfield stuff like the "Homerton" suite, but that's because Dave Stewart wrote that for the Ottawa Company which at one point also involved all of Henry Cow.

    Mike Oldfield ? I don't think there's anything Canterbury in his music. Perhaps some remnants in the more "out there" sections of "Tubular Bells", but beyond that, nothing imho.
    I always thought the Canterbury connection in regard to HCow more or less came about due to Cutler's onetime coop with Dave Stewart in the Ottawa C. and the relation between the band and Robert Wyatt. Although there's the obvious Softs (as well as Zappa/Mothers and Faust) impulse in some early Cow, they stood out pretty much as a unique animal in British progressive rock music to me. But then again I also remember the Danish Politikens Lexicon of Rock namechecking This Heat as having a "Canterbury relation" on the strength of Charles Hayward's merits alone (plus arguably the odd Wyatt influence here too).

    Comus, like Spirogya (who certainly had ties to the place itself and of course had a Northette in their rank), never struck me as anything "Catnerbury-sounding", although I really like both of them. And I absolutely agree that Tubular Bells is the only Oldfield work to showcase anything even remotely "Canterburian" in parts of side 2 of the album. I suspect this alleged connection also to stem from Oldfield's input with Kevin Ayers' solo career and thus be more about personal relations than musical ones (even though some of Ayers' stuff most definitely brings on the "Canterburian" feel, most definitely Shooting at the Moon).
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    I always thought the Canterbury connection in regard to HCow more or less came about due to Cutler's onetime coop with Dave Stewart in the Ottawa C. and the relation between the band and Robert Wyatt.
    Well, there wasn't much of a relationship with Wyatt until Henry Cow moved from Cambridge to London in 1972. Sure, Frith corresponded with Wyatt before then, but I don't think Wyatt even heard Henry Cow until the Cabaret Voltaire residency in late 1972.

    Frith and Hodgkinson have claimed that the Soft Machine similarities in Henry Cow's music happened during the period when Andy Powell was in the band (ca. 1969). Before he got his big break writing string arrangements for the likes of the Alan Parsons Project, Powell was into avant-garde (playing in the Intermodulation ensemble and with Stomu Yamash'ta in Come To The Edge) and also a huge fan of Soft Machine [Hugh Hopper told me he even sat at the drums during the soundcheck for the Proms concert, as they wouldn't let Wyatt back in after he'd gone out of the hall for a smoke], and allegedly "borrowed" riffs from Soft Machine, presenting them as his own at Henry Cow rehearsals. As a result, the band developed a fondness for odd meters and the like. This was long before Chris Cutler joined in late 1971. At this point Frith was seriously into Wyatt and wrote Wyatt-like songs (cf. the early 1972 BBC session).

    re: the Ottawa Company precedent, it should be borne in mind that it was more like a pool of composers and musicians performing in various small (occasionally larger) entities, rather than 20 or so musicians all playing together as one ensemble. Based on the programmes for the Ottawa concerts, it appears Henry Cow mostly performed their own stuff. I'm not sure Stewart ever played with Frith or Greaves in this setting. Having joined the collective earlier, Cutler on the other hand participated in more of those various line-ups - for instance it was he rather than Clive Brooks who would play drums on "Nearch", the Mont Campbell piece where Campbell played piano and Dave Stewart bass guitar (as they did again on the "Civil Surface" version).
    Calyx (Canterbury Scene) - http://www.calyx-canterbury.fr
    Legends In Their Own Lunchtime (blog) - https://canterburyscene.wordpress.com/
    My latest books : "Yes" (2017) - https://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/yes/ + "L'Ecole de Canterbury" (2016) - http://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/lecoledecanterbury/ + "King Crimson" (2012/updated 2018) - http://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/kingcrimson/
    Canterbury & prog interviews - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdf...IUPxUMA/videos

  25. #25
    Member bill g's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Near Mount Rainier
    Posts
    2,646
    A couple I don't see mentioned yet, I really find National Health's 'Missing Pieces' to be superb as well. So many great pieces of music on that one, and 'Clocks and Clouds' really stands out for me among the finest pieces of music around. Phil Miller's 'Cutting Both Ways' is another gem, (featuring Dave Stewart on 2 tracks).

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •